Question on Vermont Castings wood stove

[Diabel]

Yes I know. Just look at it this way, you saved a lot of money on NG/LP or oil over the past 6.5 yrs.

Even if you decide to repair the stove (truly not advised), then for sure in few years you will be pumping more money into it!!

In my opinion the encore 1450 was VC's by far worst model and design. Yet extremely nice looking!

I

 

[jharkin]

Welcome to VC life.

Not that you need it but I'll add a 3rd vote to replace. I know what you are getting at, drilling a hole at the end of the crack to make a stress relief is the standard engineering solution to stop it propagating. Problem is that filling the rest with cement wont work, as the stove heats and cools the expansion will just open the crack up again and the cement will fall out. It will either suck air and overfire or leak CO into the room, neither of which are good.

 

[sean b]

Thanks again for the sage advice and brutal honesty, fellers. I sent the pictures in an email to the local dealer and asked that they communicate the issues to VC. I'm not hopeful that anyone at Corporate is going to feel my pain but it's worth asking.

In the end, it's still my fault for not doing a better job of researching the product. I bought the stove mainly because it was pretty and had full blessing of the EPA... along with a nice tax credit. Should have looked under the hood too.

Assuming I have to purchase a new stove, I'll be back shortly to pick some brains on making a better choice the second time around. with a ton of luck, maybe I can find something close to the midnight blue color since I had installed matching chimney connector piping........ harrumph...

 

[jharkin]

Dont beat yourself up Sean..... The situation may not be ideal but it could be far worse - Just think how many people every year just walk into a random car dealership and put up 5 figures to buy something on the spot without researching.....

 

[fire_man]

The other positives are by posting to Hearth.com you were able to avoid a potential safety issue and you prevented yourself from going down an expensive and frustrating repair job.

I was fortunate to find this site just before I pulled the trigger on a VC Neverburn back in 2007. I researched the posts and ended up with a Woodstock Soapstone stove and have been very happy.

 

[Grisu]

with a ton of luck, maybe I can find something close to the midnight blue color since I had installed matching chimney connector piping

The options for blue enamel I can remember are: Jotul F500+F600 and Quadrafire Explorer 2 + 3. The BlazeKing Ashford 30 was also supposed to come out in a blue color but there were some production problems. Not sure if those have been/will be resolved. The PE Summit classic and Neo 2.5 come in various color options including blue although they will look quite different than the VC. The soapstone Woodstock Progress Hybrid may also worth looking into. Woodstock will do their best to match the soapstone shade to your specs if you ask.

 

[Diabel]

I was not so lucky back in 2007. My only meaningful exposure to wood burning was my friends VC 2190 which I loved to operate and it was beautiful!!

When I decided to build an addition to my house, it had to be with a wood stove in it. I went to see a VC dealer, interested in the cat stove (of course the encore). I was right away talked out of the cat technology as it being the old tech. with catalysts failing all the time and being very expensive to replace. I was told That the new replacement for the VC cat stoves was the everburn tech.!! (Neverburn crap as we all here know!!) Of course he had one in stock and it ended up on my new hearth. I fought with it for three or four seasons until I had enough and sold it for 1000 only because it looked beautiful. I lost 2000 on the stove after 3/4 seasons of use.

As I was struggling with the 1450 I was going through the ads and picked up an old 0028 for free in a very good shape. The lady just wanted to get rid of it. All it needed was a new cat. It was so much easier to operate. I have a nice fire going in it as I type.Then I picked up a 2550 again for free with most of the inner parts completely burned out. And that is the stove I am completely rebuilding. It will be put in service in the next couple of weeks!

 

[sean b]

I just spent my lunch hour browsing through some reviews on one of the 'read this first' sticky notes on this site........ and while I feel more informed, I'm also amazed and ticked off that a company and its dealers can sell such a defective product for so many years, treat the customer as if it's their fault that their stove is glowing red in the back (and cracked) because of a poorly engineered and weakly-constructed design.... and mostly that there is not a class action lawsuit to demand accountability.

Cutting my losses and moving forward, it looks as if the Jotul 500 has a solid reputation. I remember looking at that one when I was shopping and I'm not sure what made me decide against it.

 

[Ductape]

I just spent my lunch hour browsing through some reviews on one of the 'read this first' sticky notes on this site........ and while I feel more informed, I'm also amazed and ticked off that a company and its dealers can sell such a defective product for so many years, treat the customer as if it's their fault that their stove is glowing red in the back (and cracked) because of a poorly engineered and weakly-constructed design.... and mostly that there is not a class action lawsuit to demand accountability.

Cutting my losses and moving forward, it looks as if the Jotul 500 has a solid reputation. I remember looking at that one when I was shopping and I'm not sure what made me decide against it.

I think the reason there has never been a class action suit against them is that they filed for bankruptcy, and the company that purchased VC was able to buy them with no liability on anything before the purchase. They are fully protected from it by law.... unfortunately.

I am also another VC purchasing sucker.... bought my Defiant just before they went bankrupt. Best part was, I had a lifetime guarantee on all refractory parts !! Yeah, right.... until they went bankrupt. I really don't consider myself foolish for not researching my purchase. I was replacing a smaller VC stove I already had.... one cast in the 70s when VC was at the top of their game. It really stinks, because I still think they have one of the nicest looking stoves out there. Its just too bad they now cannot build a quality product.... at least not as far as their refractory goes.

As far as their castings, they are actually very good. They make casting for many other businesses, including competing stove manufacturers. I'd chalk up that crack to either bad luck, or overheating due to your fountain problem. Most likely overheating, as it was common for the backs of their stoves to glow red hot when the refractory parts went south.

In any event..... I'm going to also suggest you do not bothering to rebuild this stove. In the long run you will likely be investing 1000 or 1500 dollars in it, about ever 3 or 4 years. The parts are obscenely expensive, and how long can it be till they are simply not available anymore.

 

[sean b]

I couldn't agree more, Ductape. Even if I put the money into fixing the Encore and got several more years use out of it, at what risk is my family being put at?

I understand the bankruptcy thing protecting companies and all but there should have at least been a recall or a bulletin or anything to alert people to what was a completely unknown problem to me until I cleaned my stove last week, as I do twice a year.

 

[begreen]

Having owned an original VC stove it is painful to see the downward spiral of this company. Hopefully having a well funded owner now will turn things around for them. There's a rumor that VC will be coming out with a new generation of stoves that will have more conventional secondary tube innards. That should greatly improve reliability and reduce maintenance to normal levels.

 

[fire_man]

In 2007 I still owned and happily heated with my early 80's VC Resolute. I decided to upgrade to an EPA stove and blindly went into a Vermont Casting dealer. The stoves in the showroom were beautiful but after a look under the hood I asked the dealer "what's all that complicated looking stuff in there - my old stove doesn't have it!" He told me it's a great new technology called Everburn that makes the stove burn cleaner and longer.

I was skeptical (darn Engineer in me) so I went to the internet,stumbled onto Hearth.com, and got set straight about Everburn and VC quality.

My message: the posts on this site are real, honest, and undeniably helpful. Sounds like Sean is taking the good advice and moving on.

 

[sean b]

It's all I can do, fire_man. Getting mad isn't productive. Just one more of life's lessons learned. I do plan on asking the local vendor though if they're still selling that lemon and if so, is an ounce of effort being given to informing or educating prospective customers who aren't privy to the underlying issues. It'd be a dang shame if that's still happening after all these years.

 

[Diabel]

A few months ago I stopped by a shop that sells VC along other brands and there was a gorgeous Defiant NC sitting on display.

 

[fire_man]

I do plan on asking the local vendor though if they're still selling that lemon and if so, is an ounce of effort being given to informing or educating prospective customers who aren't privy to the underlying issues.

I already tried exactly what you propose. In 2007 after reading Heath posts using the term "Neverburn", I forwarded a bunch of the posts to the VC dealer and asked how I could buy the stove based on all the real world feedback. His response was that he never heard any of the complaints and never heard the term "Neverburn".

Perhaps typical customers just don't burn 24x7 the way Hearth.com people do so the problems don't surface?

 

[sean b]

I already tried exactly what you propose. In 2007 after reading Heath posts using the term "Neverburn", I forwarded a bunch of the posts to the VC dealer and asked how I could buy the stove based on all the real world feedback. His response was that he never heard any of the complaints and never heard the term "Neverburn".

Perhaps typical customers just don't burn 24x7 the way Hearth.com people do so the problems don't surface?

My local VC dealer has (3) replacement fountain assemblies in stock... just for the model I have. I have a feeling he knows plenty.

You bring up a good point though about burning 24/7 and I'll be sure to make it known to all sales people as I'm shopping that that consideration needs to addressed.

 

[jharkin]

I already tried exactly what you propose. In 2007 after reading Heath posts using the term "Neverburn", I forwarded a bunch of the posts to the VC dealer and asked how I could buy the stove based on all the real world feedback. His response was that he never heard any of the complaints and never heard the term "Neverburn".

Perhaps typical customers just don't burn 24x7 the way Hearth.com people do so the problems don't surface?

More likely the reason is that 90% of the people that buy these stoves just burn green wood in them and choke them down to a smoulder like they did their old smoke dragon - so the reburn system never actually lites off at all. Sure they are belching smoke all day long and only getting a fraction of the heat they could, but they had the same problem with their old smoke dragon and dont know any better.

 

[fire_man]

Jharkin: Interesting thought about the secondaries not firing for many uninformed folks. That sure would cut down on the heat output and stove stress. It would also make for a frustrating burn but you could be onto something.

 

[sean b]

I grew up helping with wood stove duties every day. Dad never burned wet or green wood and taught me as much. Most of what I burn has sat under cover for 2 years at least.

Called the original dealer today (which I should have done first) but hadn't because they're in Michigan and I'm in PA. But I was told that the new company that's running VC is honoring warranties again. I explained what happened, my displeasure with the fragile design of the stove, my surprise that I knew nothing about the problem until I went to clean it and an important part was nearly gone, and what I had heard from several others with firsthand experience. I had to bite my tongue for the first few minutes of the conversation as I was told that the fountain has a lifetime warranty and should last forever. What bothered me next is that he said the fountain assembly IS fragile and great care should be taken not to drop logs onto it.... and that I had to inform him that the fountain sat protected, behind the lower refractory and the refractory shoe, meaning nothing could come into contact with it unless the stove was disassembled. Next he told me that if I hadn't done a good job of keeping those little air holes clear in the refractory shoe, that that could also compromise the fountain. I informed him that I read the manual from from front to back 5 times from install through the first few months of use to make sure I wasn't missing anything. I was then informed that I had to send my concerns directly to Vermont Castings. I told him there was no provision on their website to contact them. He said I can't call them but I can email them with my concerns and send photos of the damage. So I double checked and... no, there is no way to contact VC in any way. Called him back and he confirmed that I was correct so I sent an email to the dealer with a bunch of photos. I'm not terribly hopeful but all refractory parts are supposedly warranted for life, including the fountain that's all but gone, the refractory shoe that was cracked upon delivery and is now in two pieces and also the lower refractory that is also in two pieces. I got a price on the rear casting that's damaged... $200. So .......... long shot here (like a squirrel at 300 yards with an arrow) but if they're willing to replace all the refractory parts and IF I only have to pay a few hundred for a rear casting and several gaskets, I'm willing to put it back together if it'll buy me a few more years while I budget for a replacement.

I'm just having a huge problem with the customer being automatically blamed for a fragile design that I just might not have maintained properly. Especially when there's almost nothing in the manual that serves as an appropriate warning to prevent what so many have experienced. I was also told that they sell a lot of fountain assemblies (that part with the lifetime warranty that I had to remind him about) so color me very pessimistic about this.

I hope VC is getting their stuff together but unless they're able to step up to their original warranty commitment, they'll never get another dime from me.

 

[fire_man]

All I can say is WOW. VC is still not really stepping up to the plate and doing right by the customer. It sounds like something might work out with the new parts but I'm not sure I'd want to stay married to that stove - or more importantly, to VC, for long.

 

[sean b]

For clarity, I've not heard a single word from VC yet. This was the first line of defense coming from one of their dealers. I certainly don't intend to stay married to them but like I said, IF it works out, it'll give me some time to save for another stove. My other option is slapping in an old Baker or some other indestructable tank for a few years, which will most certainly register complaints from my better half after years of getting used to a nice finish.

 

[jrems]

That's really weird that the company doesn't list a phone # on their website. The phone book has them listed

(802) 234-2300
62 Vt Castings Rd
Bethel, VT 05032-4496

 

[sean b]

Thanks jrems.