Quadrafire Voyageur Grand dirty glass all the time

[Jags]

Something is seriously wrong if after 20 minutes I could spit on it and put the fire out. I would highly suggest getting your stove dealer involved. He needs to read the draft of that thing (manometer). Also tell him to bring an armload of wood that he uses in the shop and demonstrate the stove operation.

Edit: also, just because the adjustment is there doesn't mean that all stoves can slam their primary adjustment to the bare min. I can't on mine either. It requires about 1/8 open or I create charcoal by morning.

 

[Squisher]

After a reload, going from hot coals, it takes prob 10 min of me cracking the door before a sustainable flame is going when I put larger splits on.

If I pull the primary all the way down the flames get really lazy and abt 20min later are pretty much gone. At 1/4 open it will burn with a flame.

None of the pics are during a flame stage they're all after a reload.
I'll get some different wood and try again.

I just don't understand why It won't burn the crud off by itself??

So should this stove need the door cracked at all let alone for ten minutes on a hot reload on hot coals? For me I turn the air up, toss my splits in and immediately close the door and within minutes have to turn the air down. On a hot reload I never have to leave the door open to re-establish draft.

Just asking to learn and try to brainstorm ideas. It would seem to me the stove isn't getting enough draft?

 

[Jags]

So should this stove need the door cracked at all let alone for ten minutes on a hot reload on hot coals?

No, not really. Your current method is sound.

 

[matt1@]

As mentioned earlier I too would wait for the stove to cool and physically check the baffle and blanket to make sure they're flat and tight against the rear of the stove. I had the same thing one year and when i cleaned the chimney i must have had the blanket accidentally bunch up in there. Glass looked the same as yours. Air controls worked but had to keep the door cracked longer than usual for starting/ reloading until i double checked the baffle and blanket

 

[w103tws]

So, I did a little investigating this weekend.

I tested my wood with a friend's tester and confirmed it is between 15% and 20% on the inside of a split.
I took the surround off and looked at the OAK hole and confirmed that the plate is gone and nothing is blocking it.
I tightened all of the screws holding the glass in and tightened the door latch to the point that I can barely close it.
I used an incense stick to go around the door and primary intake and OAK hole to confirm tightness and proper air flow.
I burned a few fires using very small splits to have a very hot fire reloading often.

The incense showed me that the door and glass are tight and not leaking. But, when I hold it up to the primary intake, even with the lever all the way open, it doesn't suck the smoke in like I thought it would. If I have the smoke more than about an inch away from the intake, it will not get sucked into the stove.

Using lots of small wood during the course of the day made no difference in glass cleanliness.

As mentioned earlier, I must have the door cracked during start-up and usually on a reload. If I open the door anytime during the burn, the fire goes crazy but if I shut it and have the primary open all the way, I just have a lazy fire. Even burning the small stuff, I have never been concerned with having too much fire in the box with the primary all the way open.

The glass has never burned itself clean.

There are no holes or anything above the door for airwash but don't know if there are supposed to be?

All in all, I think I have good draft from my chimney since the fire burns great if the door is open, my wood is dry, I've tried burning hotter fires with smaller splits and nothing has changed the fact that my glass is filthy within an hour or two.
but I do not think the stove is letting enough air into it. Can I cut the hole for the primary air larger, or should I assume there is something defective on the stove, or is there still something I may be doing incorrectly, or should I just suck it up and live with the issue because my dealer is correct in saying that it's normal?

Thanks for all

 

[Jags]

Have you confirmed that the actual mechanics of the primary air is adjusting (or opening) like it should?

 

[begreen]

All in all, I think I have good draft from my chimney since the fire burns great if the door is open,

That is not necessarily a sign of good draft. The draft must be strong enough with the doors closed to pull air though the primary and the secondary manifolds and out the secondary ports. Marginal draft may fail here. If this is the case adding a few feet to the chimney can make a notable difference. This can be tested by putting a temporary 3' extension pipe (cheap 6" air duct) on the chimney.

 

[w103tws]

Yes I did. It looks like one of the vents on a charcoal grill that slides open and closed.
I checked the baffle board and blanket, they are in the correct position and laying flat

 

[w103tws]

Ok. If the draft isn't that great, will that effect the cleanliness of the glass?

 

[Jags]

Ok. If the draft isn't that great, will that effect the cleanliness of the glass?

Yes. It will also cause the lazy fire you have been explaining. It is the reason that on post #26 above I suggested to get the installer involved to get a manometer reading.

 

[Fod01]

+1 on getting the installer involved. That much crud will never burn off to your satisfaction. It should never be there in the first place. You've done your due diligence to find the cause.

 

[w103tws]

Ok, great. I installed it myself, so If somethings wrong, I guess I'm the only one to blame. I'll ask my dealer if they have a manometer I can borrow. My dealer does not install themselves, they recommend using sub contractor so they cannot be blamed if something doesn't work properly, they can just pass the buck.

Now I gotta figure out how to extend a ss flex liner...

 

[iron]

i know very little, but are you supposed to use a grate with that unit? or, am i seeing the pics wrong and you really don't have one?

with my northstar (same manufacturer as quadrafire), the glass stays cleaner with logs running east west and a few inches from the glass. north south gives me dirtier glass. i know my manual said specifically not to use a grate.

 

[Jags]

Find someplace with a manometer. There are ways to tack on height to a flex liner, but cross that bridge when you come to it.

 

[Jags]

but are you supposed to use a grate with that unit?

Nope. Not on that one.

 

[w103tws]

no, there is no grate in it, and I have always burned east/west. Thanks for the input though.

Jags, What kind of # am I looking for when using a manometer?

 

[Jags]

Jags, What kind of # am I looking for when using a manometer?

If there are no numbers in the manual, I can probably check a couple of other places.

Looks like .05 inches of WC is recommended by Blaze King (on high setting). I would imagine that is pretty stable across most platforms. They consider over .06 as too much.

Ahhh...Found it.
Considerations for successful draft include:
• Preventing negative pressure
• Location of appliance and chimney
To be sure that your appliance burns properly:
• During a low burn, the chimney draft (static pressure) should
be approximately -.04 inch water column (W.C.)
• During a high burn the chimney draft should be approximately
-.10 inch (W.C.)
• Measure the W.C at 6 inches (152mm) above the top of the
appliance after one hour of operation at each burn setting.

That is directly from the install manual for your stove.

 

[jatoxico]

I tested my wood with a friend's tester and confirmed it is between 15% and 20% on the inside of a split

Shutting the door on a hot fire and it goes out? Your draft may be marginal which may improve as the weather gets colder. Still want to ask about the the wood since it is sooo often the issue. Were the splits you measured at room temp before re-splitting and checking? If not the meter will read low as it will with weak batteries.

 

[w103tws]

thanks jags, I found that too. I'll call the dealer and see if he has a meter I can borrow.

Jatoxico: The wood I burn is staged in the garage which gets no colder than 40 on the coldest night, but nothing was measured at room temp.

 

[swestall]

Odd, are you not getting the secondaries firing off when you shut the "raging bull fire" down by shutting the primary air input down? Are you leaving some space between the splits for that fire to work in? If you are killing the fire and not getting a good secondary burn, you may have a defect in the secondary air supply. Do you have the manual, if not download it. There should be a section on the "air-wash", that's what cleans the window. Most glass will get a stain after a long time, years, but it will be whitish and look fine except in sunlight. What your picture shows is smoke stain for sure, so you would appear to not be pulling hard on the fire, you could have the draft checked by a sweep with a draft meter.The wood doesn't appear "stuffed" so there is room for more airflow, but why is there not enough pull to create it? Ask to speak to a factory rep, they might have specific knowledge of an inherent problem and its fix. For what its worth, a wet paper towel to soften the black, some ash on that same towel for abrasion, another wet towel for wiping down all that crud then a dry towel to finish should do it, BUT, don't do that on a hot window, ever. I'd not clean a hot window with a razor or anything else, who knows what might jump out of that stove. You can clean a warm window, but the crud will dry on it faster than you can wipe it off. Sorry for the lack of paragraphs, I'm tired.

 

[begreen]

If the dealer doesn't have one they are available on eBay. Search on magnehelic. You want one that just tests on the low side of the scale, say 0 to.25" like this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DWYER-2000-...048934?hash=item19eab71326:g:IdMAAOxyXzxTGx4~

Or get a 3' or 4' length of cheap 6" galvanized duct pipe and carefully insert the crimped end into the liner. Do this on a calm day and see if that makes a notable improvement in operation and glass cleanliness.

 

[jatoxico]

thanks jags, I found that too. I'll call the dealer and see if he has a meter I can borrow.

Jatoxico: The wood I burn is staged in the garage which gets no colder than 40 on the coldest night, but nothing was measured at room temp.

Forty degrees is too cold. Bring some splits into the house overnight and retest tomorrow. The difference between 18- 20% and 25% is big and possible given how the wood was tested. This thread veered into talking about the draft (which is a legit possibility) but not sure you've ruled out the simple stuff first. Try a load of kiln dried wood or lumber scraps. Start with air full open and turn down in stages as the fire builds.

I also do not see any mention of stove top temp or if you are getting any secondary burn. Get a stove top thermo, if you don't have one, and shoot for 500 or so on the top. If you can't achieve that with kiln dried wood at least you've ruled that out for sure.

 

[begreen]

One thing to try is to change the way you are building the fire on the coal bed. Instead of stacking the all the wood E/W try this: Lay two or three smaller splits (2-3" thick) N/S over the coals with about 2" between each of these small splits. Now place your next layers of normal sized splits E/W on top of those small splits so that they act as sleepers that allow air to get under the larger wood. Leave the insert door ajar an inch until the wood starts getting nicely involved with flame, then close, with the air control wide open. Close the air down in increments. Close it 50% when all the wood is fully aflame. Then wait about 5 minutes or so for the flame to regain strength. Then close it down another 50% to the 1/4 open position or until the flames start getting lazy, but not out. Wait again. Repeat if the flames get strong again, or leave it there if they don't. See if that gives you secondary combustion.

Another option is to build a fire entirely N/S on top of the coal bed. See how that works.

 

[w103tws]

Well, I stopped at my dealer yesterday to brainstorm with him and it didn't go so well. I showed him the pics and explained all of my procedures in detail. His response was, "I don't see what the problem is, ALL stoves get glass as dirty as yours, I don't care what anybody says". He then proceeded to advise me to call the manufacturer and speak with a technician if I don't believe him. I mentioned that I may have a weak draft since my chimney is only 15' and he immediately interrupted and said that even a 10' chimney is good enough and will draft just fine. I now know not to believe a word he says and to rely on other sources, (like here), for information. So, I guess he won't be any help

-I really cannot burn N/S since my firebox is only about 12" deep and all of my splits are about 18"
-I'll try shutting the air down a little better like what was suggested.
-My temps are taken with the fan off and shooting an IR thermometer at the cast stove connector through the airway at the top of the stove
- I usually get pretty good secondary combustion
- after checking in the morning I usually have about a dozen of golfball size chunks of cold charcoal.

all in all, I am really thinking that I just don't have enough draft since I have long smokey startups, hard to get going reloads and incomplete burns during the coaling stage...

do those "tornado" type chimney caps make a difference?

I am going to cut a 3' section of my leftover flex pipe and rig it to fit the top of my chimney and see what happens. I'll report back after I try it...

 

[Jags]

I'll report back after I try it...

Yes - please do.