Quadra 3100i or 5100i? Would love an opinion on capacity to heat

[bigstepper]

Hi Jerry,

I'm so ignorant about things like liners, etc. All I know is that the Dealer/ Installer ( who also sells a ton of Quads) ran a 35' long, flexible 6" stainless steel metal piping/tubing down into the chimney. I doubt if the metal tubing was "lined" by wool or anything like that. Is this what you mean?

They say a little knowledge is dangerous, so I don't know what to expect as far as heat loss is concerned. Hence, I posed the question of the 'block off plate'.

I mean if the Dealer (who is reputable) sells a lot of Quads, they should be installing them for the most effcient use and effective use.

Right?

 

[Jerry_NJ]

If you saw the installation you'd have seen the insulator installation, it is a wrap around the outside of the pipe. This is a obvious work effort, requiring the installer to wrestle the flex liner out straight (on the lawn), a big job for a 35' liner (same as mine). The main purpose of the insulation is to keep the liner hot so that less creosote forms on the interior. I'm not sure it changes heat loss very much, just keeps the liner itself hotter.

The insulation is "optional", but in colder climates and on exterior chimneys I think it an insulation blanket is needed. I think the Maryland area is somewhere near the "line" of the insulation being unnecessary (not cost justified). I can check, but best I recall the insulation was about another $350, it wasn't cheap.

 

[yukiginger]

Hi Jerry,

I'm so ignorant about things like liners, etc. All I know is that the Dealer/ Installer ( who also sells a ton of Quads) ran a 35' long, flexible 6" stainless steel metal piping/tubing down into the chimney. I doubt if the metal tubing was "lined" by wool or anything like that. Is this what you mean?

They say a little knowledge is dangerous, so I don't know what to expect as far as heat loss is concerned. Hence, I posed the question of the 'block off plate'.

I mean if the Dealer (who is reputable) sells a lot of Quads, they should be installing them for the most effcient use and effective use.

Right?

No, not right. They want a satisfied customer at the lowest cost. They figure, what the customer doesn't know won't hurt them. Now, I'm not saying a block-off plate is necessary (I don't have one in my insert installation) but it can only help and COULD make a significant difference. You know where the cut the damper out? Well, there's now probably quite a bit of gap there where the liner passes through. When it's cold and the surrounding chimney is cold your insert will get this cold air and it will cool the insert, costing time and energy in your warmup to operating temperature. It also can end up radiating cold into your room when you are not home or off on vacation and not burning. Installing a block-off now is going to be a royal pain as the insert is already in position with the liner attached. You could buy some kaowool (sp?) or high temp insulation and try to stuff it up there after you remove the surround. This might seal it off well enough. If sealing of some sort was not included in your installation quote good luck getting the dealer to kick in and do it, although it is possible. Research block-off plates here and see that it has made a difference for some of us. Insulating the liner is a completely different thing. It involved wrapping the liner with insulation which should help keep the liner warmer, thereby improving draft and reducing creosote buildup. It is also not cheap as the insulation is the high temp type and they hold that on with a stainless steel mesh the entire length.

MarkG

 

[Jerry_NJ]

Easy on the scares from MarkG. I'm not arguing with his input but again pointing to your specific conditions. I have an 8'8'' wide brick wall-fireplace and any cold air that "comes" down the chimney and cools the insert is just a reflection of the whole wall, i.e., a block off plate couldn't make more than a few % reduction in "cold bricks" in my living room. Also, you are in Maryland, not Alaska. Sonnyinbc, in Canada has argued that a block off plate isn't needed. My experience, again with a large brick exposure, is a block off plate isn't worth much effort/cost for me. I can, by the way, easily remove my insert surround and pull the insert forward a few inches and gain access to the damper area. So, I can add a block off plate without removing the insert, but I think I will not.

Central NJ must run about 5-10 degrees colder than Maryland, depending where your are in Maryland, of course. I am mid state, north of the center, and we run 5-10 degrees colder than NYC and the Jersey shore.

 

[bigstepper]

Jerry, I appreciate your comments, as you sound pretty level headed.

I ended up stopping by the dealer after work tonight that I purchased the Quad 5100i from, and he explained it wasn't a cost reason (to me or them) that they did not install the additional lining to the pipe or block off plate. Makes sense to me, since they would have simply added the costs to my installation fees ( + more profit for them...)

Instead, he said it was simply unnecessary.

At the top of my chimney, he said they added a terra cotta top plate and a (sealed) metal cap that act essentially as a 'block off plate' to the metal pipe/tube. This combination minimizes cold air coming down the chimney, thus rendering a 'block off plate' around the original damper unnecessary.

I guess if I felt inspired to really 'lock in the heat', I could take off the outside panels of the stove and add some ceramic wool or metal. But I agree with you, it might not be noticeable, and worth the hassle.

Bottom line, the dealer's been in business over 100 years and said he would send a technician out ( at no charge to me) if I feel the 5100i is underperforming.

So I guess I'll evaluate the situation after this weeks worth of cold weather, and see where it goes. Who knows it could end up performing very well.

 

[Jerry_NJ]

bigstepper,

I'm sure the Quad will perform well, enjoy it.

My masonry chimney is also blocked at the top, with the liner coming through the block/plate (not sure about any terra cotta, may just be sheet metal sealed to the tile liner coming out of the brick walls). So, in effect, the insert is an air-tight stove that happens to be set back in the fireplace opening, trimmed out with a surround and closed to the outside whenever the door is closed and the vents shut down/closed. I am very pleased with the fan, it puts through a lot of air on high and the noise isn't bothersome. It has a speed control, so I can turn it back if the fire is low and/or I want some real quiet operation.

I'm about to turn in for the night. My Insert is still perking along, and has been running since about 1 pm today. I will go out in the next couple of hours, I do not stoke it up for an overnight burn, I'm not a 24/7 burner.

 

[elkhorn]

I am thinking of purchasing a Quadrafire 5100i and would kike to know if you are still happy with your 5100i? Please adivse.

 

[bigstepper]

I like the 5100i. This is my first winter using it.
It really heats up my house because of it's large capacity.
Comparing on last winter gas bills and to this year, I estimate I am saving about 100 gallons of propane a month with the Quad.