Progress Hybrid tips, tricks, and expectations?

[TJL]

I think he's referring to internal temps not the temp on the thermometer.
Makes sense. I always had the stovetop above 250F (500F internal) before engaging.

I burned 7 ash for weeks with no problems then I switched to some 4 year seasoned oak and I started having the cat plugging problem.
You may be onto something. My black locust is 4-6 years old, covered in the winter. The bark is loose and somewhat crumbly. Maybe that is a factor. In any case that is what I have and will have for the foreseeable future. Thanks.

 

[TheRambler]

I don't know, 500F mighy actually be the stovetop temp. I doubt he was measuring internal firebox temps... Never seen anyone do that.

For me i found letting the stovetop get to 400F before closing the bypass yields the best results. I usually throw in 1 small split on the coals and let her rip until shes north of 375, and then i load the rest of the splits and bring to 400 and close the bypass. I feel i get better cat light off and much better heat output. i went from having a peak of 450ish with a cruise of 400ish to a peak of 650 and a cruise of 500-550. In both cases i got about the same burn times, maybe a little longer with the lower temps

 

[Tenn Dave]

Seems to me that this has something to do with one of the variables in your setup. I have one of the early model PHs with the ash pan and 20+ feet of chimney on an outside wall and the damn thing can burn any type wood with no cat clog whatsoever. I only clean my cat at the end of the season and it only has a small amount of dust on it. Perhaps the PH is not the best stove for your particular situation. Not all stoves work their best in every application.

 

[Tenn Dave]

I agree, no way I'd want to deal with it. As stated above some have issues some do not, some think it's from too much draft others not enough.

Us BK guys only have to deal with the stinky/smokey smell.

Well maybe WS should include a Dustbuster with their stoves and BK a respirator or ham smoking kit with their stoves.

 

[fire_man]

Woodstock indicated that the damper could be completely shut and there would still be enough draft to support good combustion. I did this last year and found quite a bit carbon (hard, brittle but not sticky) when I cleaned the chimney and stove pipe, maybe a gallon or so. This year I NEVER have closed the damper all the way - always 20% or so open. I'll see what the soot situation is next month when I clean the chimney. Nevertheless, I am convinced that closing the damper all the way is a bad idea.

Woodstock also originally told me it was ok to close the draft completely - until they did the rebuild and saw signs it was not burning hot enough. They told me to burn hotter (more air) and so far the cat has not clogged. Also, the mid year flue cleaning produced MUCH LESS soot.

The only time I will close it down all the way now is after it's already been burning hot for a while (30 minutes or so) and the secondaries have been firing hard and I don't need good heat.

 

[rideau]

One should not be removing any gasket except the one loosely wrapped around the cat, that comes out with the cat when you pull the cat. You apparently never upgraded to the cast iron griddle? It's a bit quicker to remove than the steel plate. Removing the soapstone is not a big deal, and does not require any special care. Just don't bang it around. I don't understand why it would get a towel at all dirty-the soapstone isn't dirty and nothing comes off it. I put mine down on any chair or sofa. I lift it all the time for cooking, and take pieces off to use as footwarmers, bed warmers. It's easy and quick to remove, and doesn't need to be coddled, just not slammed around. I clean the cat consistently at about a 250 degree stovetop. I get no smoke coming into the room. But, on each load I completely burn the load to a small coal bed as a regular practice. Burning a lot of bark, especially if it is at all moist or degraded, will likely produce more smoke than the cat can handle during the early part of the burn, and also make it harder to get a complete burn before reloading. If you are not burning your loads down pretty completely, you probably greatly exacerbate your cat issue by having lots of fly ash in the firebox. Cleaning the cat is not difficult or time consuming. I could write a list about the steps of bringing wood in, or emptying ashes and dealing with them, but the fact remains that cleaning the cat takes less time than doing either or those tasks, that we do all the time if we burn wood. For the advantages that this stove gives in burn time and heat output, cleaning the cat is not a significant issue. I definitely agree that it would be nice to not have to do it, but it would also be nice to not have to empty ashes or bring in wood. Over the years I've had the PH, I've worked to figure out which wood works best for me, how to burn to get least ashes and smallest coal bed, and how to reduce ash build up on my cat. I have been pleasantly successful with all this, while learning better burning techniques, and continue to learn and improve. If you want to use your cat, we are all willing to jump in with suggestions of things we have tried that have helped.
If the bother to you outweighs the advantages of the stove, there are plenty of folks who'd like a slightly used PH.
If you want to sacrifice the efficiency of the PH and burn with it as a secondary rather than a hybrid stove, it is probably fine to do so (I'd run it by Woodstock and at least inquire of maximum temps they'd like to see you consistently burning at if you elect to do this).
You are probably going to be running it hotter, more often than Woodstock anticipated if you run it this way all the time.

 

[rideau]

I am in the midst of the third year with the Progress Hybrid having used a Fireview for 20+ years. I replaced the Fireview because the internals were distorted, probably from chronic overheating.

Last year I kept it mostly closed and had a lot of hard soot buildup in the chimney liner at the end of the season.

The not-so-good news:
I normally need to empty the ash pan every week. It I go much longer than that, I need to empty it more than once. The problem is that I also need to remove and clean the catalytic converter almost every week because it is blocked with fine dust.

AFTER 2-1/2 YEARS, I HAVE DECIDED TO KEEP THE BYPASS OPEN ALL THE TIME AND NOT ENGAGE THE CAT. I could never see any difference in performance or stack appearance with it. When the stove is heating from a cold start I get some smoke regardless of bypass position. When the stove is up to temperature (>300) I have a perfectly clean stack regardless of bypass position.

Perhaps the quality of my wood is a factor, but my wood supply is what I have to work with for years to come.


I welcome any comments, but you needn't explain the catalytic converter to me. I have two degrees in chemical engineering and have operated cat stoves for over 20 years. (I abandoned that catalytic converter on the Fireview after the first replacement for reasons similar to above.)

Thanks for any comments.

I heated with a Fireview for 7 years prior to the PH, and never had any build up in the cat. The fact that you had enough issue with a fireview to decide to stop using the cat is interesting. Also interesting that the Fireview internals were distorted after twenty years, probably from chronic overheating. This brings to question basic burning issues.

Sounds to me like you just want a secondary burn stove, and seemingly a secondary burn Woodstock.

 

[TJL]

I heated with a Fireview for 7 years prior to the PH, and never had any build up in the cat. The fact that you had enough issue with a fireview to decide to stop using the cat is interesting. Also interesting that the Fireview internals were distorted after twenty years, probably from chronic overheating. This brings to question basic burning issues.

Sounds to me like you just want a secondary burn stove, and seemingly a secondary burn Woodstock.

I abandoned the cat on the Fireview not because of plugging, but because I didn't see the value in periodic replacement. However, that cat was much easier to access. The distortion of the internals was probably my fault but I'm not complaining after 24 years of use.

 

[TJL]

You apparently never upgraded to the cast iron griddle?
The cast iron griddle is not an upgrade. It is an option which I did not want since I have no desire to cook on the stove.

The bottom of my soapstone is dirty, thus the towel. Handling 250F soapstone is not something I would do. I wait until the soapstone is cool enough to handle without gloves. Yes, there is a lot of ash in the firebox. Once a week, I let the fire go out over night. The next morning, I hoe the ash into the ash pan (most of the ash does not fall into the pan on its own) and empty the pan. The soapstone is usually still too hot to touch and there are usually enough coals remaining in the firebox to restart the fire. None of this is particularly troublesome.

Bottom line for me: The extra effort to clean the cat every week has NOT resulted in any observable improvement in stove performance vs running with the bypass open. Maybe my cat is no good, but WS did send me a replacement early in the game when I complained (kudos to them). Woodstock Soapstone is a fine company.

If the bother to you outweighs the advantages of the stove, there are plenty of folks who'd like a slightly used PH.
What gives you the impression I wish to get rid of the stove? I am perfectly content to operate it as described above and in the previous posts. Its a good stove.

... I'd run it by Woodstock and at least inquire of maximum temps they'd like to see you consistently burning at if you elect to do this). You are probably going to be running it hotter, more often than Woodstock anticipated if you run it this way all the time.
I ALWAYS operate the stove well within the optimal range indicated on the stovetop thermometer (255-675F). It does not overheat in bypass mode. It goes below 255F only when the wood is consumed. I adjust the damper to ALWAYS keep both the stovetop and stovepipe temperatures above the recommended minimums of 255 and 235F respectively with lower temperatures for extended burns, higher temperatures if I need more heat. None of this is difficult.

 

[rideau]

Good to hear you don't feel you are overheating the PH. You indicated you felt you had overheated the Fireview a lot.

The PH is a beautiful stove. Glad you are enjoying it.

 

[TheRambler]

You apparently never upgraded to the cast iron griddle?
The cast iron griddle is not an upgrade. It is an option which I did not want since I have no desire to cook on the stove.

The bottom of my soapstone is dirty, thus the towel. Handling 250F soapstone is not something I would do. I wait until the soapstone is cool enough to handle without gloves. Yes, there is a lot of ash in the firebox. Once a week, I let the fire go out over night. The next morning, I hoe the ash into the ash pan (most of the ash does not fall into the pan on its own) and empty the pan. The soapstone is usually still too hot to touch and there are usually enough coals remaining in the firebox to restart the fire. None of this is particularly troublesome.

Bottom line for me: The extra effort to clean the cat every week has NOT resulted in any observable improvement in stove performance vs running with the bypass open. Maybe my cat is no good, but WS did send me a replacement early in the game when I complained (kudos to them). Woodstock Soapstone is a fine company.

If the bother to you outweighs the advantages of the stove, there are plenty of folks who'd like a slightly used PH.
What gives you the impression I wish to get rid of the stove? I am perfectly content to operate it as described above and in the previous posts. Its a good stove.

... I'd run it by Woodstock and at least inquire of maximum temps they'd like to see you consistently burning at if you elect to do this). You are probably going to be running it hotter, more often than Woodstock anticipated if you run it this way all the time.
I ALWAYS operate the stove well within the optimal range indicated on the stovetop thermometer (255-675F). It does not overheat in bypass mode. It goes below 255F only when the wood is consumed. I adjust the damper to ALWAYS keep both the stovetop and stovepipe temperatures above the recommended minimums of 255 and 235F respectively with lower temperatures for extended burns, higher temperatures if I need more heat. None of this is difficult.

Have you tried hoeing/raking the ash into the ashpan at every reload? I usually do a very quick raking of the coals at every reload so that the majority of the ash falls into the ash pan. It ony takes a few seconds, and would probably help keep the cat much cleaner since not nearly as much fly ash would be sucked up during operation. I empy my ashpan using it in this manner about every 1-1.5 weeks. And my cat stays remarkably clean, though i do check it every few week.

What is under the top soapstone since you dont have the cooktop? I havnt seen one without it. Just trying to figure out how the bottom of your soapstone is dirty.

I just use my hearth gloves to pick up the soapstone pieces, and i place them on my hearth off to the side if i have to open the stovetop. I try to be gentle with them, but am not really afraid of cracking or chiping them.

 

[TJL]

Have you tried hoeing/raking the ash into the ashpan at every reload? I usually do a very quick raking of the coals at every reload so that the majority of the ash falls into the ash pan. It ony takes a few seconds, and would probably help keep the cat much cleaner since not nearly as much fly ash would be sucked up during operation. I empy my ashpan using it in this manner about every 1-1.5 weeks. And my cat stays remarkably clean, though i do check it every few week.

What is under the top soapstone since you dont have the cooktop? I havnt seen one without it. Just trying to figure out how the bottom of your soapstone is dirty.

I just use my hearth gloves to pick up the soapstone pieces, and i place them on my hearth off to the side if i have to open the stovetop. I try to be gentle with them, but am not really afraid of cracking or chiping them.

I see your point but I don't let the fire die down low enough to easily rake the ash. When the fire dies down, I add more wood. Per Woodstock maintenance pdf:

6. Avoid long, smoldering fires. Again, the catalytic combustor is critical here. Hot firebox temperatures (with the​

stove top thermometer in the 400-6000F range) will produce more complete combustion and maintain proper
catalytic activity.

I try to keep the stovetop above 255F (recommended). To do this, I need to add wood before the bottom can be easily raked. Once a week I let the fire die down enough to completely rake all of the ash small enough to fall through the grate. This takes 5 minutes or so and the pan is pretty much completely full when done. There are usually enough hot coals left to restart. If not, I use a fire starter. I suppose I could do this more often but then the house would be cold more often.

Under the soapstone is a metal plate with a removable gasket on the front side. This plate does not completely seal the soapstone from the flue gas, thus some soot accumulates on the bottom of the soapstone and it is "dirty." It is not a problem.

Thanks for your comments.

 

[begreen]

You're a very patient person TJL.

 

[TJL]

An earlier poster stated:
I clean the cat consistently at about a 250 degree stovetop. I get no smoke coming into the room.

I responded:
Handling 250F soapstone is not something I would do. I wait until the soapstone is cool enough to handle without gloves.

From Woodstock:
COMBUSTOR CLEANING HOW TO:
1. Be sure the fire is out and the stove is cold.

Also, today I (permanently?) removed the inconel screen, per Woodstock's latest design. One more step to simplify maintenance.

 

[TheRambler]

Your stove doesnt need to be cool to rake the coals. I do it frequently with a stovetop 300-400 on really cold days. On those days the coals can be like 4-5 inches deep.

I may be wrong, but i would think part of your problem is the excess fly ash being sucked up into the cat. Raking at every reload keeps the ash either in the bottom or in the ash pan depending on the stove.

And that blurb in the manual about waitibg for the stone to be cold is purely for liability.

 

[TJL]

Your stove doesnt need to be cool to rake the coals. I do it frequently with a stovetop 300-400 on really cold days. On those days the coals can be like 4-5 inches deep.

I may be wrong, but i would think part of your problem is the excess fly ash being sucked up into the cat. Raking at every reload keeps the ash either in the bottom or in the ash pan depending on the stove.

And that blurb in the manual about waitibg for the stone to be cold is purely for liability.

I'm not sure about that. The act of raking (hoeing) entrains a lot more ash, i.e. creates a lot more dust, than normal burning; but raking, or hoeing, is the only way I know to get the ash into the pan, which still beats shoveling ash into a metal container.

 

[TheRambler]

I'm not sure about that. The act of raking (hoeing) entrains a lot more ash, i.e. creates a lot more dust, than normal burning; but raking, or hoeing, is the only way I know to get the ash into the pan, which still beats shoveling ash into a metal container.

You should have the stove in bypass when raking, so the dust isnt an issue for the cat. If your not in bypass then that is a problem

 

[TJL]

Agreed (and, yes, I do that), but even with the bypass open, ash can settle on the surface below the cat and be re-entrained when the bypass is closed. See drawing. Nevertheless, I'm going to continue to do some experimenting with what's left of the season.

 

[TheRambler]

Agreed (and, yes, I do that), but even with the bypass open, ash can settle on the surface below the cat and be re-entrained when the bypass is closed. See drawing. Nevertheless, I'm going to continue to do some experimenting with what's left of the season.

A very very minimal amount IMO. My vote is that your better off raking at every reload. I would say give it a shot and see if it makes a difference for you. Your already having to clean once a week so i can't possibly imagine it getting worse than that!

 

[rideau]

Agree with Rambler, and you will find if you do rake the coals between each fire, they never get deep enough to be a pain to rake, or take much time to rake. And your fires will burn more completely with a smaller ashpile in the box. I suspect the fire gets more air form below when the ashes are less. I'd suggest raking a channel from front to back in the center, making sure the air inlet under the glass is unobstructed, before laying your firewood. Doing this gives me better burns, definitely cuts down on the ash on my combuster. Anything that reduces the amount of fly ash in the firebox does so, especially if one has a strong draft.

 

[Mitchhorne8]

Hey everyone, anyone have a suggestion on cleaning to improve "Air flow' when I 1st got the stove it seemed blow a jet of air into the bottom of the stack, now that has seems to have gone away. Ive read references to "the air hole" below the glass? anyone know if this spot exists? I've melted by brush, vacuumed, blown air into the air intakes. But still seems clogged. any suggestions are welcome.
'

 

[Flamestead]

Hey everyone, anyone have a suggestion on cleaning to improve "Air flow' when I 1st got the stove it seemed blow a jet of air into the bottom of the stack, now that has seems to have gone away. Ive read references to "the air hole" below the glass? anyone know if this spot exists? I've melted by brush, vacuumed, blown air into the air intakes. But still seems clogged. any suggestions are welcome.
'

Between the andirons, an inch or so up from the bottom of the firebox, is an air hole. It is smaller diameter than a pencil. I occasionally suck ash out of it using my ash vac. Woodstock told me I could put a bent wire in there and spin it around just to be sure no ash was clogging the hole. I try to keep the ash accumulation down/away from that hole.

 

[Flamestead]

Regarding the ash raking and cat cleaning conversation above, I "rake" every reload with a bent (L-shaped) poker. Often I am raking with 3"-4" of coals in the firebox.

I clean the cat with the stove "cool" but not cold. I read the Woodstock instructions to say don't be foolish and burn yourself trying to do this, but I do it anyway. I have used one match since December. My biggest need to cool the firebox occasionally is to clean the glass.

 

[Rearscreen]

It's funny, of all of the stoves that I have owned over my lifetime, I have been burned by this one more than any other. Am I getting older? Am I getting stupider? I have also never owned a pair of gloves to load, this one I do. And even then, I get burned. I kind of like it though. Makes me realize that I'm still alive.

 

[Oldman47]

We are all getting older Rearscreen.