Problems with new Jotul C550

[A2Woodburner]

You are missing one piece - you are shutting it down too early. Regulate the air based on the thermometer. If the thermo drops, open the air back up. You need to heat the entire flue to get the draft increased to the point where the stove will sustain a burn with the air at 1/4.

Open the air up. Stop worrying about "the heat going up the stack". You should be able to get 700 degrees in 15 minutes if you cut it small enough and arrange it well.

With your set up, you need the flue to get hot and stay hot. That upper extension on your flue will cool really quickly - it's just liner sections right? If it's cold, it isn't going to help with the draft, and with the minimal heights that you have, you aren't going to get a good burn until the second or third load of fuel. Yes, you have enough chimney, but it isn't going to run like one connected to 30 feet of flue.

So, burn it quick and hot, air open. Forget about losing heat up the stack. You need air to make heat, and given your flue, you won't have the velocities inside the flue to maintain the fire with the air shut down.

Don't even be afraid of overfiring it - it sounds like you can shut it down quickly.

Hope this is helpful - I hate that you were sold something that isn't suited to your install. Good luck.

That is helpful. But it is directly opposite of what others have suggested and guided here in this lengthy thread. The stove pipe in the chimney is insulated with one of those "blankets," even though I was told I wouldn't need one, and found out that all stacks in Michigan are to have one by code. Those liner sections are insulated to code as well.

Getting up to 700 degrees in 15 minutes is something that has never happened, no matter what. I can get it up to around 600 relatively quickly, like 1/2 hr or maybe a bit sooner, but going to 700 rarely happens. What I am finding when leaving the air open too long is that the law of diminishing returns kicks in and it doesn't get any hotter, and just either stays around the 600 degree temp or temp begins to go down a bit, Usual start up for fire is small stuff stacked N-S/E-W and build upon that as things heat up.

I meet with the Jotul rep tomorrow, as well as the owner of the store that sold this to me. Thanks for your ideas and support. Will keep trying...

 

[oconnor]

Glad to hear they are meeting with you. Let us know what they say.

 

[A2Woodburner]

After meeting with the Jotul rep and owner of the company I bought this Jotul Rockland 550C from, we have concluded, as we all have here done as well, that the insert is working just fine and all pieces and parts are in fine working order. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it. And all the steps I have taken over the last year to block off air escaping, insulating against the cold air infiltration, insulating my firebox, block off plate in the chimney, using really dry wood (fuel), etc. have been all the right moves to make.

The question remains, why is this not pushing back some of the "cold" ish air? Even just crossing the threshold from the room the insert is in to the next very adjoining room, which is all open space, no walls...nothing, just one sort of big room, one can feel the difference in temp. It's not the fan on the unit, though I was told to never run it at full blast and only keep it at a minimum level, which I had tried for some time based on advice here, but never worked out for me. The air the fan pushes doesn't have time to heat well when it is full blast, so slowing it down a bunch gives the air to really heat a lot to what the insert is making it. Again why did my old insert work so well vs this thing? Basically because it used so much more wood and put out way more BTUs than this new one is designed for. I use way less wood now (close to half if not 2/3 less and certainly 1/3 less), with all its energy efficient and EPA and all that other good fancy techy engineering type stuff.

Advice given...use my furnace fan to circulate the warm/hot air from the insert throughout the house. Since I have an old(er) gas furnace, I have been warned against this in the past since the fan would run up my electric bill quite a bit. I am hesitant to give this a go, even though I know and accept the principle behind it.

Other advice given...use the ceiling fan(s) more, and even try the one in the other room, which I have used before and had only had experienced it cooling the air down. And YES! I do have the fans blade spinning in the correct direction for winter time. Pointing a small little floor/box fan from the other room at the unit into the room where the insert is would help circulate and push the colder floor air into the area to get warmed up, and recirculate from there.

More advice given...block off the basement, which comes through the middle of the house, with a blanket or some heavy plastic to reduce the amount of colder air coming up into the rest of the house, even though it has been partially insulated down there. Give it a try and that way, the insert and fan of the insert isn't fighting so hard against any colder air infiltration.

Bottom line, even though I have made all these energy and efficiency upgrades to my house and this insert before this burning season began, it still is not capable of overcoming whatever bits of cold that makes its way into the house. So very disheartening and disappointing. To those of you who kept saying it is my house and all due to my house, you can thump your chests and smile your "I told you so s." Yet no one can answer me why the heating results from last year before all the house and insert/chimney upgrades aren't different from the results I get this burning season after everything I have put into it. It may not be working as hard to get up to those subpar house temps (oversold expectations) I was experiencing last year, but that is as far as it goes. Overall, still the same outcome.

I guess I have to resign myself to accepting this over promised and under delivered unit on how much better it would heat my house. Thanks for all the time, patience, advice, suggestions, etc. Till next burning season...

 

[Setter Fan]

A2Woodburner,

I have read through all 8 pages and really "feel" for you (no BS really get your aggravation). The amount of money and energy you have put into the 550 is admirable and I am sorry for your troubles. I have the same unit in a 2,600 square foot house with a center chimney and have had the exact opposite experience... really could not be happier. Cant add any additional insight that has not already has been given here.

My only suggestion is to not ask but demand from Jotul or the store you purchased the 550 from a full refund or a replacement.

If your house/setup can handle a woodstove propose to Jotul an exchange (Insert to Woodstove). A suggestion would be a Jotul F500,F600 or F55. I cant say you will get what you ask for, but at this point it is worth the fight.

People rave about their Jotul woodstoves and they appear very easy to operate and they put out tremendous heat. My 550 has always put out good heat, but it took some time to perfect my burning techniques.

Good luck and please keep us all informed!

Frank

 

[A2Woodburner]

A2Woodburner,

I have read through all 8 pages and really "feel" for you (no BS really get your aggravation). The amount of money and energy you have put into the 550 is admirable and I am sorry for your troubles. I have the same unit in a 2,600 square foot house with a center chimney and have had the exact opposite experience... really could not be happier. Cant add any additional insight that has not already has been given here.

My only suggestion is to not ask but demand from Jotul or the store you purchased the 550 from a full refund or a replacement.

If your house/setup can handle a woodstove propose to Jotul an exchange (Insert to Woodstove). A suggestion would be a Jotul F500,F600 or F55. I cant say you will get what you ask for, but at this point it is worth the fight.

People rave about their Jotul woodstoves and they appear very easy to operate and they put out tremendous heat. My 550 has always put out good heat, but it took some time to perfect my burning techniques.

Good luck and please keep us all informed!

Frank

Thank you Frank! I wish I could install a wood stove instead of insert, or afford to do so. All the best!

Bruce

 

[Soundchasm]

Bruce, you've done an awesome job just answering the mail. If the 550 ran on determination, yours would heat the neighborhood. I did a quick "survey" of the replies you got where folks positively identified owning a 550. Out of 18, 10 were less than stellar, two gave no indication, 1 was bad/good, and 5 were positive. Happy owners generally don't post on the internet-why would they? They're doing other things.

I don't recall one complaint of excessive heat. The bottom line is we're saving money, but not as warm as we'd like to be. I'd calculate your payback period and start on research that includes the phrase "help, stove makes room too hot!".

 

[bobdog2o02]

A2, where do you live?

You may have noticed that some people have burned almost twice as much wood this year compared to last year.

Maybe if your situation didn't get worse during this brutal winter your insulating efforts weren't in vain and you might notice GAINS next year?

 

[A2Woodburner]

A2, where do you live?

You may have noticed that some people have burned almost twice as much wood this year compared to last year.

Maybe if your situation didn't get worse during this brutal winter your insulating efforts weren't in vain and you might notice GAINS next year?

I live in Michigan. We shall see...

 

[begreen]

MI has been pretty much ground zero for the the arctic freeze we've seen this winter. I would consider this year as the worst case scenario. At least I sure hope it is!

 

[Bigg_Redd]

Yet no one can answer me why the heating results from last year before all the house and insert/chimney upgrades aren't different from the results I get this burning season after everything I have put into it.

Ummm. . . yes someone can. The 550, for it's size (to some extent) and for it's price (without a doubt), is simply not a very good stove. It's a woman that acts like a 10 and looks like a 6.

 

[bobdog2o02]

Ummm. . . yes someone can. The 550, for it's size (to some extent) and for it's price (without a doubt), is simply not a very good stove. It's a woman that acts like a 10 and looks like a 6.

You are such an optimist.

 

[jatoxico]

Ummm. . . yes someone can. The 550, for it's size (to some extent) and for it's price (without a doubt), is simply not a very good stove. It's a woman that acts like a 10 and looks like a 6.

The 550 is not all that big. Usable firebox is 2.1-2.3 cu I would guess. It's built like a tank but not very large. Mostly an E/W loader so not easy to stuff to the gills either.

 

[Pooge]

The 550 is not all that big. Usable firebox is 2.1-2.3 cu I would guess. It's built like a tank but not very large. Mostly an E/W loader so not easy to stuff to the gills either.

A2, you have stated that you have sealed the house up. Could it be that your house is so sealed that you are not receiving enough air into the house to provide a sufficient draft? This may not be likely since you said you have a gas furnace, which has a chimney opening. However, if this gas furnace is firing, IT'S draft may be sucking supply air out of the house and starving your stove. The fact that your stove temp drops so fast after turning your stove fan on is curious, especially since others say theirs doesn't drop so fast. I'd concentrate on that.

While your chimney height is barely adequate, it won't draft like a 25ft chimney. Having a sealed house would make it even more difficult to get a good draft. Have you tried opening a door or window to increase draft? You might also consider modifying your furnace to use outside air, if possible, to reduce any tendency to negative air pressure in the house.

 

[A2Woodburner]

A2, you have stated that you have sealed the house up. Could it be that your house is so sealed that you are not receiving enough air into the house to provide a sufficient draft? This may not be likely since you said you have a gas furnace, which has a chimney opening. However, if this gas furnace is firing, IT'S draft may be sucking supply air out of the house and starving your stove. The fact that your stove temp drops so fast after turning your stove fan on is curious, especially since others say theirs doesn't drop so fast. I'd concentrate on that.

While your chimney height is barely adequate, it won't draft like a 25ft chimney. Having a sealed house would make it even more difficult to get a good draft. Have you tried opening a door or window to increase draft? You might also consider modifying your furnace to use outside air, if possible, to reduce any tendency to negative air pressure in the house.

I had a new home energy audit in June. The auditor is the one the store uses and was incredibly thorough and complete. Even more so than last years. My house isn't as buttoned up as tight as you imply here. I have some more work to do in closing the house up even more regarding drafts, air leaks, etc. Also, draft is not the issue. None, nada, etc. etc. etc. Sorry, nothing you are suggesting here fits in this case and situation. I appreciate your assistance and advice.

Based on the auditor's report and the extensive research he did, this Jotul C 550 CB wood burning insert is rated at 11,700 - 35,900 BTU/hour. This is way far and below the "up to 75,000 BTU/hr" that Jotul presents in its documentation of this unit. It does write the rating in small print of the owner's manual. It is probably rare that I get this unit up to even close 30,000 BTUs and that may even be for possibly at most an hour. Almost no way will it get to 75000 BTUs (well maybe for a few minutes or so). NO...it is not the wood I burn. NO...it is not the insulation in my house. NO...it is not the draft, or the height of my chimney, or if I have a block off plate (or not), or if I lined the firebox with Roxul, or this, or that, or whatever.

Very bottom line once and for all. This unit was and has been over promised and under delivered from the get go. Plain and simple. When I spoke with the salesman asking if this will put out the same heat and temps my old one did, his response was "It should." When we discovered that the stack wasn't tall enough and didn't spec out, and that was remedied, and I asked, "Will it now perform at the same level my old one did?" The response was "It should. No reason why it shouldn't." When I had the Jotul Rep out here to look things over, along with the salesman, and was told to add a block off plate along with sealing up any openings to the outside from the fireplace itself; and did that, and once again I asked. "Will it now perform at the same level I am accustomed too?" And the response was "I am confident you will see a major difference and will be satisfied with the performance and results. Yes, it should." When I insulated my house and made over 5k worth of energy upgrades and updates, and contacted the store and Jotul rep with the same question, and you guessed it, the response was "That should do it." And now, I have a thermometer and all the great advice in the world on how to fire this thing and burn in it, and the Jotul Rep with the owner of the store out at my house and finding that the thing is working like it should and being told to waste tons of money and energy by having just my furnace fan help to circulate the warm(ish) air through the house even though my furnace is 20 years old and not set up for this, which will cause me to spend at least $300.00 a month in utility, and the response still remains the same. Oh...and I also have to put some plastic or a heavy blanket over my stair well from the basement to slow the cold air from down there...AAAAARRRGGGGHHHH!! WTF!!

Finally in June with this totally complete home energy audit, I find out that this thing is so under rated it isn't funny. There is absolutely NO WAY in heck that this lousy piece of crud will EVER measure up to what I once had (Oh...But I can't compare the old with the new), unless I dump between 10-15k more dollars worth of energy/insulation upgrades into my house. And that simply is not going to happen. I can make my house better, and have remedied a good portion of the recommendations, but not to that extent just to burn and heat my house with wood.

OVERSOLD/OVERPROMISED and UNDERDELIVERED/UNDERPERFORM nothing more, nothing less. It is a worthless piece of junk for me and an incredible waste of money over the last couple of years. No way to have really known, but now stuck with it.

 

[drewsome]

I've got a new problem with my Jotul 550 Rockland, after only 3 seasons of use. Neither blower will work! I confirmed that the electrical outlet is fine.

The 3-way toggle switch looked a little corroded (as did the wires leading into it) so I just replaced the switch, but it's still not working, even in manual mode. I attached a picture of the switch before I replaced it.

Do you think I also need to replace the wires? Any other ideas? I doubt it's the blowers since the odds of both of them breaking at the same time seems remote.

I'm so frustrated with this! Any help would be GREATLY appreciated as I'm freezing! Thank you!

 

[A2Woodburner]

I've got a new problem with my Jotul 550 Rockland, after only 3 seasons of use. Neither blower will work! I confirmed that the electrical outlet is fine.

The 3-way toggle switch looked a little corroded (as did the wires leading into it) so I just replaced the switch, but it's still not working, even in manual mode. I attached a picture of the switch before I replaced it.

Do you think I also need to replace the wires? Any other ideas? I doubt it's the blowers since the odds of both of them breaking at the same time seems remote.

I'm so frustrated with this! Any help would be GREATLY appreciated as I'm freezing! Thank you!

I suggest you call your dealer or Jotul area rep to take care of it for you.

 

[richmhv]

Hi All.

I am new to this forum, and my username refers to where I live, not the type of stove that I have....just wanted to clarify that!

We installed a new Jotul C550 Rockland insert, and I'm not sure whether it's working properly or if I just have unrealistic expectations. We have a 2700sf raised ranch and the insert is downstairs in the family room that has a regular-sized doorway leading to the upstairs staircase. We explained to the company we bought it from that we wanted to keep the oil furnace at around 50 and get the main heat in the house from the insert. They told us that this unit would heat the whole house. Long story short, in addition to burning oil, we are also burning wood and the electricity to power the blower, so I'm not sure we're ahead.

Everyone on the previous thread has complained about the snapstat on the blower and I'm no different. Last night I loaded the stove, the temp was up around 550 and the blower didn't go on, set to auto. It did turn on later, though. The room gets to be about 80 degrees maximum, but I don't understand why the box temp would be so high, and that the room temp would be so modestly warm. I don't think an 80-degree basement would send the heat upstairs enough to make much of a difference. Earlier this week we had a 40-degree day. The oil thermostat was set at 60 and with a mature, raging fire we could only get the upstairs temp to about 67, so I am not confident about performance on a 10-degree day. I am sure that I am going to have to cut registers into my hardwood floors or open up the staircase wall to allow heat to pass upstairs, but before I radically change the house I need to know if I will be more successful in heating the upstairs.

Despite having some really hot fires and the blower almost at full blast, we can't get that family room really hot.

I have a friend with an old wood stove that gets incredibly hot on only 1 or 2 logs, and I'm burning up to 20 splits or more each day. He said that the other night his house was so hot they had to sleep without blankets. For full disclosure, he has a single-level house, but still....

I've had this insert now for about 2 months and don't know if I should return it for a wood stove. The dealer has already replaced the snapstat but that didn't help and he is calling Jotul tech support tomorrow. My theory is that the radiating heat from a free-standing stove will be greater than the heat from an insert with blower and that the heat will rise through the house more rapidly and hotter as well.

Thoughts and comments gratefully appreciated.

Hi:
Trying to heat 2700 sq ft from the basement sounds difficult. Remember that wood stoves/inserts are space heaters so in a house like yours may need one on the main floor if you spend most of your time there. I have a 1200 sq ft house with a free standing stove and it is toasty. Living room is about 78 as I write this. You will get more heat from a freestanding stove. the radiance is amazing. If the family room is reaching 80, you are getting plenty of heat, it's just not going where you need it. I would say small stove or insert in the family room just to keep the family room about 74-75 and a freestanding stove upstairs to heat the main area of the house. That would be the one to burn 24/7, light the family room one when you want to use the room.

 

[NE WOOD BURNER]

What is your moisture content and species of wood you are burning?

 

[OhioBurner©]

Hi:
Trying to heat 2700 sq ft from the basement sounds difficult. Remember that wood stoves/inserts are space heaters so in a house like yours may need one on the main floor if you spend most of your time there. I have a 1200 sq ft house with a free standing stove and it is toasty. Living room is about 78 as I write this. You will get more heat from a freestanding stove. the radiance is amazing. If the family room is reaching 80, you are getting plenty of heat, it's just not going where you need it. I would say small stove or insert in the family room just to keep the family room about 74-75 and a freestanding stove upstairs to heat the main area of the house. That would be the one to burn 24/7, light the family room one when you want to use the room.

Your responding to someone that hasnt even been on the forum in almost 4 years.

Based on the auditor's report and the extensive research he did, this Jotul C 550 CB wood burning insert is rated at 11,700 - 35,900 BTU/hour. This is way far and below the "up to 75,000 BTU/hr" that Jotul presents in its documentation of this unit.

Most any stove manufacturer today make the 'max' ratings fairly high. Those numbers don't mean a whole lot in reality. But just for the heck of it let me do some quick math. I think its a 3 cubic foot firebox if memory serves. Using premium hardwood, theoretically we could pack it full of 171 lbs of Osage Orange which it seems 6200 btu per pound is often used to account for moisture and efficiency, so that's a 1,060,200 btu burn. If we assume the stove dissipates that entirely in 12hrs that's about 88,000 btu/hr, so not too far off from their rating. It will take probably longer than 12 for the stove to cool completely to ambient, and its unlikely we can pack the firebox full, so more like 1/2 to 2/3 that number in reality. Jotul is probably inline with their ratings compared to most manufacturers. I see the stove is currently rated at 65,000 btu actually.

It is probably rare that I get this unit up to even close 30,000 BTUs and that may even be for possibly at most an hour. Almost no way will it get to 75000 BTUs (well maybe for a few minutes or so). NO...it is not the wood I burn. NO...it is not the insulation in my house. NO...it is not the draft, or the height of my chimney, or if I have a block off plate (or not), or if I lined the firebox with Roxul, or this, or that, or whatever.

I still feel that if your stove is stalling then there is something not ideal in your setup. The obvious causes would either be draft, air supply, or a stove defect. The Rockland, packed with good hardwood, will easily take off like a rocket with good draft and air. Just being 5 or 10 minutes late closing it down could, temperatures could easily rise to 900-1000º. Whats plain and simple is if this isnt happening to you then there is something limiting it, not that the stove is incapable.

OVERSOLD/OVERPROMISED and UNDERDELIVERED/UNDERPERFORM nothing more, nothing less. It is a worthless piece of junk for me and an incredible waste of money over the last couple of years. No way to have really known, but now stuck with it.

If you think its so poor why not get rid of it? If its only a couple years old you should be able to sell it for a good price. Buy something else if you think it will help. A Rockland is certainly not a worthless piece of junk. It outperforms my Hearthstone and my pellet stove. I may eventually put mine for sale... it doesn't perform as good as I hope but that is because of my house, and because I didn't research certain aspects of it. I wont complain too much though, it will keep me warm most of the time and I think its roughly inline with other stove manufacturers. I just would rather have a free standing unit that can run without power, be able to cook on, get more radiant heat, longer burn times, less awkward firebox size for cutting wood, etc.

 

[hamsey]

I thought it has a 2.3 firebox? Not positive though.

I was just thinking about this thread over the weekend when it is really cold I feel that the 550 is to small. Not going to do anything now but maybe next year replace it with a PE Summit. Will see how it goes over the winter. I do love it just think it is too small for our house and would have to make significant changes to accommodate the PE

 

[pigc]

I thought it has a 2.3 firebox?

2.08 according to the Jotul brochure. A2- Is the Rockland working any better for you this season?

 

[OhioBurner©]

Some members here have measured it out at 3cf but I think that's including all the way to the glass, and all the way to the baffle and without taking in consideration the taper or the raised front, etc. I don't know if they changed it over the years or not but I don't recall Jotul listing the firebox size in my manual, but 2.08 sounds really small... my Hearthstone is 2cf and holds noticeably less wood.

 

[hamsey]

I just measured mine not to long ago. Useable firebox size is 2.08 (2.0764 if you want to be precise). That is measured from the andirons to the back, width front and back (averaged) and measured to the bottom of the baffles.

At least Jotul printed the honest firebox volume .

 

[OhioBurner©]

Ah yeah your probably loosing a lot if you only go to the andirons. Still seems kind of low though, I wonder if my Hearthstone is similarly overrated since I can fit the same length log in (~13" N/S) but its not nearly as wide.

Seems like there has been a lot of misinformation in the past about the size of the stove though, just did a search since I was curious and many references to it being 3cf, 2.7cf, etc, etc. (for example https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/insert-vs-wood-stove.122237/page-2#post-1640836 )