Problems Heating with Englander 10-CDV
- Thread starter Skye
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You just discovered what a lot of people don't realize about 'space heaters', which is what a pellet stove really is. People need to do some serious comparing before jumping into pellets, not the least of which is that these stoves WILL require maintenance and some degree of DIY skills.
http://www.buildinggreen.com/calc/fuel_cost.cfm
Are your interior walls insulated? If not, you're also heating the cold walls between that room and your other rooms even with all the doors closed.
Dgopetactical
Feeling the Heat
Wa
There is a lot of factors that come into play, but I think it's possible, but then again I don't live in Kansas.
There is a lot of factors that come into play, but I think it's possible, but then again I don't live in Kansas.
I have no clue if they are or not. I'm going to assume not, since this house is so old.
Ok, one thing at a time:
1. If you are interested in using the pellet stove, talk with Mike Holton of Englander/England Stove Works and get your stove running properly. THEN you can see if the stove is putting out heat.
2. Regardless of what type of heat you choose to use, let's see about adding what insulation you can add, sealing up where practical and hanging on to some of your BTU's. That has the potential to save money no matter what your heat source.
3. Free pellet stove? Or did you buy it used? If you bought it used, you probably paid a substantially discounted price over new. So, it's worth it to see if you can get it running to see if it will work for you.
4. If you know how much you are paying per kWh, use the calculator above. If you burn two bags of pellets a day at our local Big Box Store Prices, you are paying around $10.75/day with tax, give or take a few cents. That's paying retail store prices by the bag- one of the more expensive ways to buy pellets, but certainly viable if that's how you can get 'em. That's a $328/month pellet bill, and that's for 61 bags of pellets or over a ton of pellets per month. Others from that part of the country can chime in, but perhaps you won't need to burn that many pellets if you can get your house sealed up and insulated. Over a ton of pellets per month sounds like a lot of pellets to me. In central Virginia, with an active burn season from about mid October to about mid April, we burn right around two tons of pellets a year, or about 100 bags give or take 10 bags or so. During a particularly early/late and/or cold winter we will burn 2.5 tons. We've never burned three tons in a season. (I know, never say never...) You are talking about burning over a ton a month at two bags a day- or over 7 tons of pellets in a 6 month burn season, from October through March. Bonus round if you include April, which you probably should- that's 8.5 tons of pellets a year. I'm not from Kansas but that sounds like an excessive amount of pellets...
How much is your highest electric bill in the winter?
Many people negotiate discounts through buying pellets by the ton.
We also tend to keep our houses warmer for less money with pellets than we'd pay to keep the house at the same temperature with other heating options and fuels.
Get your price per kWh and run some numbers. It's not impossible, but it's difficult for me to believe that all electric heat in Kansas is going to be cheaper than pellets.
1. If you are interested in using the pellet stove, talk with Mike Holton of Englander/England Stove Works and get your stove running properly. THEN you can see if the stove is putting out heat.
2. Regardless of what type of heat you choose to use, let's see about adding what insulation you can add, sealing up where practical and hanging on to some of your BTU's. That has the potential to save money no matter what your heat source.
3. Free pellet stove? Or did you buy it used? If you bought it used, you probably paid a substantially discounted price over new. So, it's worth it to see if you can get it running to see if it will work for you.
4. If you know how much you are paying per kWh, use the calculator above. If you burn two bags of pellets a day at our local Big Box Store Prices, you are paying around $10.75/day with tax, give or take a few cents. That's paying retail store prices by the bag- one of the more expensive ways to buy pellets, but certainly viable if that's how you can get 'em. That's a $328/month pellet bill, and that's for 61 bags of pellets or over a ton of pellets per month. Others from that part of the country can chime in, but perhaps you won't need to burn that many pellets if you can get your house sealed up and insulated. Over a ton of pellets per month sounds like a lot of pellets to me. In central Virginia, with an active burn season from about mid October to about mid April, we burn right around two tons of pellets a year, or about 100 bags give or take 10 bags or so. During a particularly early/late and/or cold winter we will burn 2.5 tons. We've never burned three tons in a season. (I know, never say never...) You are talking about burning over a ton a month at two bags a day- or over 7 tons of pellets in a 6 month burn season, from October through March. Bonus round if you include April, which you probably should- that's 8.5 tons of pellets a year. I'm not from Kansas but that sounds like an excessive amount of pellets...
How much is your highest electric bill in the winter?
Many people negotiate discounts through buying pellets by the ton.
We also tend to keep our houses warmer for less money with pellets than we'd pay to keep the house at the same temperature with other heating options and fuels.
Get your price per kWh and run some numbers. It's not impossible, but it's difficult for me to believe that all electric heat in Kansas is going to be cheaper than pellets.
My highest bill was 380 and my lowest was 130 when I didn't run the heat or ac.
I paid about $210 for a pallet of pellets. 8.5 ton of pellets does seem ridiculous.
I paid about $210 for a pallet of pellets. 8.5 ton of pellets does seem ridiculous.
At the price I pay for pellets, a little less than 4 a bag, that makes burning 2 bags of pellets a day around $10 cheaper than my highest electric bill.
At $4/bag, that's $8/day, x 30.5 days (an average between the days in most months) that's $244/month for pellets, which is $136/month less than your highest electric bill. That's a snapshot of the highest month.
There will be "shoulder" seasons for pellets, just like there are months when you don't use electricity for heat every day or all day.
Here's another calculator that might be useful- you can plug in what you pay for pellets, and what you pay for electricity and other fuels, and it gives you a comparison. You'll need to know how much you pay per kWh. Our rate changes from winter to summer. Our rate is higher in the summer.
(broken link removed to http://pelletheat.org/pellets/compare-fuel-costs/)
Since he uses $130 a month without any heat, his heating cost with electric is $380 minus $130 or $250 for heat. You are absolutely right that not every day will be a 'max heat' day so using 2 bags per day EVERY day is not expected.
I guess that the next thing, should Skye wish to pursue it, would be to get that Englander operating correctly to see exactly how many bags of pellets she'd need to burn in a 24 hour period to stay warm- then she'd have the proper baseline from which to compare costs. Although insulation and air sealing are important, she's using an "as is" electric bill right now, so apples to apples, an "as is" estimation of how many bags a day *really* would give a realistic comparison.
Also, $130/month for a 1000 sq ft house with no heat or a/c involved in that? ??? Hot water heater, perhaps? Older fridge? That, to my eye, is a high electric bill with no living space conditioning involved.
Everything in my house is electric, we have no propane tank. And yes, you nailed that on the head, we do have an OLD fridge, it's the only thing we have not updated yet.
I'm going to call Mike in the morning.
My husband messed with the controls earlier and it seems to doing a little better now though.
He's wanting to sell our pellet stove and put that money towards a wood burning furnace already. He doesn't have as much patience as I do, lol.
I'm going to call Mike in the morning.
My husband messed with the controls earlier and it seems to doing a little better now though.
He's wanting to sell our pellet stove and put that money towards a wood burning furnace already. He doesn't have as much patience as I do, lol.
Talk to Mike Holton. England Stove Works/Englander sells wood stoves as well, and Mike is well-versed in wood heat. Ask him about the history of England Stove Works, how it got started.
Many of us here are old enough to remember the 1973-74 Arab Oil Embargo, and the 1979 Oil/Energy Crisis. Lots and lots of people started burning wood during that time because the price jumps in crude oil cascaded throughout the energy sector. The energy price spikes affected *everything* and most families felt the impact in their household budgets.
Anyway, Mike is quite familiar with burning cord wood as well, and he may be able to give you insights that will help you decide if the pellet stove is a good fit, or if a cord wood burning solution is a better option for your situation.
You really won't know if the pellet stove will meet your needs until you get it operating correctly though. Once it's doing what it's supposed to do, it may work out for you, or it may not be what you want.
Pellet stove heat is never going to be BIG HONKIN' WOOD STOVE HEAT, however. Pellet stoves are more convenient to operate on a daily basis, and the heat is gentler and more subtle. You can comfortably sit in a room with a pellet stove running while the convection currents in the house take the heat to other rooms to warm them as well- where as with a wood stove, the room in which the stove resides may get very, very warm while the rest of the house is becoming comfortably habitable.
We initially went shopping for a wood stove for this house, but the stove shop in our area recommended a pellet stove instead for our floor plan- all one floor, circular floor plan, lots of smaller rooms.
You seem to have a big open space in the center of your house, so perhaps a cord wood burning option is right for you, I don't know.
Mike Holton is a great resource!
Many of us here are old enough to remember the 1973-74 Arab Oil Embargo, and the 1979 Oil/Energy Crisis. Lots and lots of people started burning wood during that time because the price jumps in crude oil cascaded throughout the energy sector. The energy price spikes affected *everything* and most families felt the impact in their household budgets.
Anyway, Mike is quite familiar with burning cord wood as well, and he may be able to give you insights that will help you decide if the pellet stove is a good fit, or if a cord wood burning solution is a better option for your situation.
You really won't know if the pellet stove will meet your needs until you get it operating correctly though. Once it's doing what it's supposed to do, it may work out for you, or it may not be what you want.
Pellet stove heat is never going to be BIG HONKIN' WOOD STOVE HEAT, however. Pellet stoves are more convenient to operate on a daily basis, and the heat is gentler and more subtle. You can comfortably sit in a room with a pellet stove running while the convection currents in the house take the heat to other rooms to warm them as well- where as with a wood stove, the room in which the stove resides may get very, very warm while the rest of the house is becoming comfortably habitable.
We initially went shopping for a wood stove for this house, but the stove shop in our area recommended a pellet stove instead for our floor plan- all one floor, circular floor plan, lots of smaller rooms.
You seem to have a big open space in the center of your house, so perhaps a cord wood burning option is right for you, I don't know.
Mike Holton is a great resource!
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Not sure quite how cold it gets in Kansas in December, but I think one bag should be plenty most of the time. My 10-cpm burned 37 bags last December keeping my 2400 sq ft warm, and my house is not particularly well air sealed. Only way to find out is to talk to Mike and get the stove running right and find out.
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