Prefer pre-EPA stoves?
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A warm house during the next ice storm and power outage changes the whole equation. Ill bet those folks that cant get propane in the midwest are a little envious of their woodburning neighbors.
I would not say I prefer non epa since I have never tried one, so I really can't answer that question. I'm heating from the basement and our electric bill for Jan was $75. My neighbor's w/heat pump and a fireplace was $270. I do go through a bit of wood, but I'm on 100ac and have the time to CSS, so I'm ok with the 6-7 cords I burn a season.
Now, I would love to try a BK King($3K), or a Yukon wood/elec//coal furnace($5K) someday, but there is a large cost involved in either so I will continue to "think about it".
I have about $700 in my stove, I have my routine down(keeps the main floor at about 68 degrees which is where we like it) and enjoy running it. I chose the basement this time, because ran a wood stove in my other log house in the great room. I don't think the stove was too big, but large temperature swings(too hot, too cold) and not moving heat to the other rooms in the house was a negative for me. Everyone is different in their preferences and expectations. My pre-epa works for us, and until that changes or I get tired or unable to whack a few extra cords a year, I reckon I'll stick with it.
Now, I would love to try a BK King($3K), or a Yukon wood/elec//coal furnace($5K) someday, but there is a large cost involved in either so I will continue to "think about it".
I have about $700 in my stove, I have my routine down(keeps the main floor at about 68 degrees which is where we like it) and enjoy running it. I chose the basement this time, because ran a wood stove in my other log house in the great room. I don't think the stove was too big, but large temperature swings(too hot, too cold) and not moving heat to the other rooms in the house was a negative for me. Everyone is different in their preferences and expectations. My pre-epa works for us, and until that changes or I get tired or unable to whack a few extra cords a year, I reckon I'll stick with it.
Well, gee, I have posted already, but I will again. As you can see in my signature, I have both, and although I love my new little EPA Hampton, I would be lost without my old Buck, which I use to heat up the house fast. It it is a heating machine. It may not be as efficient as my new little Hampton EPA but I love it. So, I guess there is a place for both, at least in this house there is.
valley ranch
Feeling the Heat
Greetings Guys, My stove is cooking right now here in the mountains, tons of snow outside, suns up. This is a brand new stove! Bought it Brand New in the 70ies. Made some improvement on it. Have another model in at our other ranch, like that one too. We're happy, thank God.
When those EPA stove owners move up, as they should, to the NEW DUEL FLAME stoves, Putting their money where their mouth is, they will have to move on as there are in fact stoves that make their EPAs out of date. I wouldn't turn my nose up at picking up one of the old EPAs and try it out in one of the barns or at a ranch if it works well enough.
I like stoves there are so many great looking and working stoves, can't have them all, but now and then I pick up one and find a place for it. Still, there are none like the one sitting here close by, I lit it about 3 hours ago, fans still on it will stop as the stove cools down, it's just over 80degrees in here, wifey likes it like this, and I like wifey.
I like this forum too, like to hear what others are doing at home and in the shop. Have a good day and keep the family warm tonight. God bless you all.
Richard
When those EPA stove owners move up, as they should, to the NEW DUEL FLAME stoves, Putting their money where their mouth is, they will have to move on as there are in fact stoves that make their EPAs out of date. I wouldn't turn my nose up at picking up one of the old EPAs and try it out in one of the barns or at a ranch if it works well enough.
I like stoves there are so many great looking and working stoves, can't have them all, but now and then I pick up one and find a place for it. Still, there are none like the one sitting here close by, I lit it about 3 hours ago, fans still on it will stop as the stove cools down, it's just over 80degrees in here, wifey likes it like this, and I like wifey.
I like this forum too, like to hear what others are doing at home and in the shop. Have a good day and keep the family warm tonight. God bless you all.
Richard
mikey
Burning Hunk
Using clean burning stoves will minimize pressure to stop wood burning, I live in the city and feel good about changing from a fireplace to my Jotul f100, it is smoke free almost right away so I don't have to worry about neighbors who might object to smoke. Some objections are valid as many children and seniors have respiratory issues, burn clean.
Simonkenton
Minister of Fire
Hell yes I prefer the old stoves. I had a 1988 Vermont Castings Resolute, what a great stove. Easy to light and it loved green wood. I could load it up at 11pm with green wood and would get a good 6 to 7 hour burn with lots of hot coals left. In fact, I made a point every year of cutting down an oak tree in November just to make sure I had a stockpile of green wood. Had one stack of dry wood, and one stack of green.
I got my mother to buy that same stove and she still uses it every day. No problems with the old Resolute and it looks great! No problems with creosote on either stove, sweep the pipe once a year.
I also had a Sotz 55 gallon and that was a great stove too. What a huge firebox. Would hold a hot fire for 12 hours easy.
I own 49 heavily wooded acres, I have a pickup and 3 chains saws. Firewood is free for me.
I have an EPA compliant stove, a 1999 Waterford, it is a pain in the ass. Hard to light and will only hold a hot fire for 3 hours. Won't burn green wood very well, it will pile up with hot coals and half burned wood if you try to burn anything that isn't real dry. What a hassle! Both it and the old Resolute are rated at 43K btu but the old Resolute is twice the stove the Waterford is.
I got my mother to buy that same stove and she still uses it every day. No problems with the old Resolute and it looks great! No problems with creosote on either stove, sweep the pipe once a year.
I also had a Sotz 55 gallon and that was a great stove too. What a huge firebox. Would hold a hot fire for 12 hours easy.
I own 49 heavily wooded acres, I have a pickup and 3 chains saws. Firewood is free for me.
I have an EPA compliant stove, a 1999 Waterford, it is a pain in the ass. Hard to light and will only hold a hot fire for 3 hours. Won't burn green wood very well, it will pile up with hot coals and half burned wood if you try to burn anything that isn't real dry. What a hassle! Both it and the old Resolute are rated at 43K btu but the old Resolute is twice the stove the Waterford is.
I don't see how you would not have creosote burning green wood and there are many modern stoves that can hold fire 8 hours easily and some that will hold much longer. Yes you need to burn dry wood but you should be anyway. As far as easy to light every modern stove I have used with dry wood is pretty easy to light. I have never used or worked on a Waterford so I cant comment on that stove at all but a bad experience with one stove doesn't mean that all modern stove are a pain in the ass.
Simonkenton
Minister of Fire
In the classic book Wood Stove Encyclopedia Jay Shelton did extensive testing on wood stoves. This was prior to the EPA regs of 1989. He proved that green wood produces no more creosote than dry. And my own extensive use of my old Resolute prove that he is right. Burned that stove every cold day using at least 50 percent fresh cut green wood, and only had to clean the pipe once a year.
But, fear not, I am not stuck in the past. I am going to build an addition to the log cabin next year and have to get a new stove, for one thing, I am sick of this dainty Waterford. I would just put a 55 gallon Sotz in there, in fact, I found a brand new in the box Sotz kit on craigslist in Cleveland last month for $60. A beautiful thing.
What a wood stove! Sadly, the fiancee hates the Sotz as much as I love it.
So, next year I will buy a Jotul Oslo for the new log cabin. I have to admit I like the glass doors.
The Waterford is a beautiful stove, has a little Irish castle in the cast iron on the right side, glass doors, but is a hassle to work with. If you don't get up within 4 hours and stoke it up, it it out and you have to relight it. We keep a big stack of small split, very dry pine on hand just for that. The dumb Micks [I am Irish so it is OK if I insult the Irish] included the ash pan within the cast iron firebox.
For example, the Jotul stoves have the ash pan tacked onto the bottom of the stove and not enclosed within the fire box.
On the Waterford there is a separate, 3 inch high cast iron door at the bottom of the firebox that you open to remove the ash pan. That poor design really eats up the cubic inches in that fire box.
But, fear not, I am not stuck in the past. I am going to build an addition to the log cabin next year and have to get a new stove, for one thing, I am sick of this dainty Waterford. I would just put a 55 gallon Sotz in there, in fact, I found a brand new in the box Sotz kit on craigslist in Cleveland last month for $60. A beautiful thing.
What a wood stove! Sadly, the fiancee hates the Sotz as much as I love it.
So, next year I will buy a Jotul Oslo for the new log cabin. I have to admit I like the glass doors.
The Waterford is a beautiful stove, has a little Irish castle in the cast iron on the right side, glass doors, but is a hassle to work with. If you don't get up within 4 hours and stoke it up, it it out and you have to relight it. We keep a big stack of small split, very dry pine on hand just for that. The dumb Micks [I am Irish so it is OK if I insult the Irish] included the ash pan within the cast iron firebox.
For example, the Jotul stoves have the ash pan tacked onto the bottom of the stove and not enclosed within the fire box.
On the Waterford there is a separate, 3 inch high cast iron door at the bottom of the firebox that you open to remove the ash pan. That poor design really eats up the cubic inches in that fire box.
Old versus new. It is hard to argue with new. We need to burn cleaner if we can. I have both old and new. And yes they are different. I love my new stove and I love my old stove. And I am old enough that I am going out with both. My old stove is easier in some respects and the new stove is easier in other respects. Being old and having experienced both, I can sympathize with both ranks. Bottom line is, we have to move on. Oh, and yes you can burn an old stove without creosote. I have done it for 40 years. It isn't just the stove, but the operator as well.
I did extensive testing from 1977 to 2005 on old stoves and green wood. Neither will come through the door of this house ever again.
Simonkenton
Minister of Fire
.....and yours different from mine as well. Point is, there are many variables.
However, there is no denying the fact that green wood, with or without extra creosote, is a handicap in the fact that energy that you'd like to use to heat your home must to be used to boil off the excess moisture that is in that green stuff (by green I mean any wood that isn't well seasoned)
Simonkenton
Minister of Fire
Just depends on how long me and the old Buck live. Maybe if I outlive the old girlSays the guy that won't chuck the Buck.
BB, That's where the old Buck is going if I out live her. Really, I would love to replace the old girl with a new one, and have already picked out the replacement, but until she dies, I am a happy man. Every morning when I restart the stoves, the old Buck is first because I can get heat out of her quicker. And momma likes heat quick in the morning. While she is drinking her coffee in front of the old Buck, I am working on the Hampton, freezing my ass off.
My son has the old Buck just like mine and I think he is going to replace his as soon as they offer the 30% again. I think you know me BB. I just love burning wood and staying warm and have a love for everything that does that. Old and New.
I have not read the book but I am not sure if he would concur with your sweeping conclusion. That's what he wrote to a reader inquiry in Mother Earth News:
"We observed up to 48 times more creosote with a smoldering fire than with a hot flaming fire using the same fuel.
Thus, the most important and easiest way to reduce creosote buildup is to burn the fuel rather than smoke it."
(broken link removed to http://www.motherearthnews.com/homesteading-and-livestock/ask-our-experts-wood-burning-stove-creosote-buildup-zm0z11zblon.aspx#axzz2xjiB8UXE)
With other words: All other things equal green wood will produce more creosote as you will not easily get a hot, flaming fire. You have to increase the air supply to get a hot fire to achieve a clean burn. Of course, that will send more heat up the flue in a modern wood stove.
I just don't understand why someone would think burning wet wood is better than dry. You waste so much heat drying the wood to a point where it will burn properly. I guess you could theoretically get it hot enough quick enough as to not create lots of creosote but why bother just dry it it will work way better and give you more useable heat. Simonkenton I am wondering what you believe you are gaining by burning it wet. All that being said I am by no means against classic stoves I burn one myself (although mine is an early clean burn stove) but you can at least burn it correctly.
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