Portable A/C vs. Ductless

[hilly]

You guys are great! This conversation is quite helpful. I did lots of checking and I can't find any window ac unit the right dimensions. I'm still waiting on the quote but a family friend installed a ductless system himself and has offered to help us. I'm thinking this is the way to go.
Thanks again!

 

[Ashful]

Incredible. I thought the east coast was supposed to be more expensive than the west coast, but that's HALF what we were quoted. Yes, we were looking at heat pumps not AC, and didn't shop that hard for ductless models, but the difference is still astounding.

Make sure you're comparing apples to apples. In the third floor of that particular house (no longer live there), I was quoted $12,000 for high-velocity ducted system vs. $3500 for mini-split. Traditional ducted system would not have worked there, but would have probably cost me $8000 - $10,000. So, if you're not looking at the price of a Mitsubishi minisplit of equal size, the east/west price comparison is probably meaningless.

 

[maple1]

You guys are great! This conversation is quite helpful. I did lots of checking and I can't find any window ac unit the right dimensions. I'm still waiting on the quote but a family friend installed a ductless system himself and has offered to help us. I'm thinking this is the way to go.
Thanks again!

If going ductless, get a heatpump and not just an a/c unit. It will pay dividends year-round, especially if you use resistance electric for heat now.

 

[velvetfoot]

I am going to try a window unit heat pump.

I never heard of such a thing.

 

[BrotherBart]

I never heard of such a thing.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IYQYG8O/?tag=hearthamazon-20

 

[iamlucky13]

Make sure you're comparing apples to apples. In the third floor of that particular house (no longer live there), I was quoted $12,000 for high-velocity ducted system vs. $3500 for mini-split. Traditional ducted system would not have worked there, but would have probably cost me $8000 - $10,000. So, if you're not looking at the price of a Mitsubishi minisplit of equal size, the east/west price comparison is probably meaningless.

The quote I had was $10,000 for an LG 36,000 BTU outdoor unit, and 4 x 9,000 BTU indoor units, plus install, which I think involved outdoor runs (cheaper, but uglier) for the 2nd floor linesets. The listed hardware cost alone for the indoor units, not including install, lineset, wiring, or sales tax, was $880 each. I'm also under the impression Mitsubishi is generally regarded as a bit better than LG for HVAC.

The quote for a ducted system (existing ducts) was a little over $7000. Between the cost difference, the visibility of the wall units, and uncertainty about how well heat from the minisplits would be distributed given our home's layout, I stuck with the ducted system.

It seemed to me that if you don't have an existing ducted heating system, a ductless mini-split is the way to go. If you do, it's a toss-up, depending in part how open your floor plan is.

 

[Ashful]

Wow, yeah your mini split pricing is way beyond what I pay here. Just did another last year in my shop, all Mitsubishi:

30,000 BTU outdoor unit
Outdoor wall mount kit
2 Line sets @ 30' each
2 indoor units
2 MKZ auto-change over thermostats

System does heating and cooling. Can't remember price (quote published here before), but it was close to $5000, installed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[hilly]

I just got the quote. It was for a ductless mini split (27 000 BTU) with three heads. Installed the price was $11 000. Unfortunately, that's too much for us so we will have to look at some alternatives.

 

[begreen]

Is there a center hallway upstairs with a window at the end? If yes, how wide is the entire window assembly? (not just casement opening).

 

[iamlucky13]

I just got the quote. It was for a ductless mini split (27 000 BTU) with three heads. Installed the price was $11 000. Unfortunately, that's too much for us so we will have to look at some alternatives.

That's too bad. What about getting a contractor to quote enlarging the window? Personally, it doesn't seem worth it just to fit an AC unit in it, but would a larger window with more view and light make the room enough nicer to possibly justify it?

Also, we've been talking only about increasing the cooling, what about decreasing the heat gain? You say that room is getting warmer than the others, so I assume it's on the sunny side of the house, but I'm wondering how the insulation and sealing is. Maybe it can be kept cooler with improvements there.

Related to that, we keep our upstairs mostly comfortable opening multiple windows in the evening once the outdoor temp is below the indoor, and closing them in the morning once the outdoor temperature is warmer than the indoor. Occasionally we have to also run a fan. It takes a bit of forethought, and doesn't keep the temperature quite as well controlled as an air conditioner would, but it's free.

 

[begreen]

That is my thinking, replace the window. But I would probably do a central upstairs window if there is one. That's why I asked if there is a window in a hallway. The cost of a dedicated circuit + new window + AC would be much less than the mini-split quote.

 

[iamlucky13]

Wow, yeah your mini split pricing is way beyond what I pay here.

I'm starting to think the higher prevalence of AC everywhere else must help keep prices down compared to the NW. I'm under the impression installers out here spend as much time looking for customers than they do on paid work, and most of the paid work is low dollar value maintenance.

I ran into this the other day and looked it up again:
https://www.eia.gov/consumption/residential/reports/2009/air-conditioning.cfm

Even with about 80% of the west region's population being in California, Arizona, New Mexico, and Nevada, we have significantly the lowest rates of installed AC. Another source put Seattle at 13% having some form of central AC. I assume the stats include heat pumps. And with such low prevalence, it's a good bet there's heavy bias towards high value homes, perhaps with an associated tendency towards higher prices.

For hilly's area, a bit north of here, it looks like about 11% have central AC - not an active market. I managed to find a source indicating for hilly's area up in BC, 23% have any form of AC:
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/16-002-x/2011002/part-partie3-eng.htm

 

[Ashful]

I'm starting to think the higher prevalence of AC everywhere else must help keep prices down compared to the NW. I'm under the impression installers out here spend as much time looking for customers than they do on paid work, and most of the paid work is low dollar value maintenance.

That may be the case. I grew up without AC, but I wouldn't live without it today. I do not know of a new home without it, and even older homes without AC are pretty rare (and hard to sell) around here. Our summer humidity is like living on a sponge, without AC.

 

[begreen]

Summers here in WA and BC are the opposite and quite low humidity. Winter is when we are damp.

This house is an A frame and if the baby's room faces west, there is little between it and the hot roof. Removing the drywall on the roof side and replacing insulation with a reflective sided foam insulation could help.

 

[hilly]

Thanks so much for all your input! I've drawn the floor plan so you can see what I'm dealing with. If any of the dimensions are strange its because I was guessing!

 

[hilly]

At this point I was thinking a couple of things, though it depends on what my wife thinks. I was thinking of putting an 8000 BTU unit in the bathroom with the hope that I can keep the child's room cold enough. Then I was thinking of possibly putting another 8000 BTU unit in bedroom #1 with the hopes that I can keep the other bedroom cool a well.
What are your thoughts?

 

[begreen]

OK, I see your dilemma now. It's going to be a challenge due to the orientation of the rooms relative to the roof slope. Just speculating, but I am wondering if an AC opening could be framed in here?


If not, I would get a quote for a single head mini-split AC unit that has the indoor head unit in the hallway at that location.

 

[iamlucky13]

An AC in bedroom 1 will help some, especially if the doors are open in both, but given that the other room is already getting hotter, probably not very satisfactory.

I'd expect adding a vent directly between them would help a bit more, but at the cost of some acoustic privacy. There are ways to mitigate this, though. One configuration is placing the vent high in the cooler room and low in warmer room, with air going up and down the wall cavity. Baffles in the cavity help reduce sound even more. Also, some transfer grills have built in baffles and sound-deadening materials.

The best way to link the rooms thermally would probably be use two jump ducts, with a fan in one (maybe even on a thermostat switch) to establish good circulation.

There's illustrations of a couple of these concepts here:
http://buildingscience.com/documents/information-sheets/information-sheet-transfer-grilles-and-ducts

The single unit minisplit in the hall is another good idea for a step up from a window unit in room 1. It would probably be the middle ground cost-wise, but might do pretty well at keeping the whole upstairs cool (again, if doors are kept open most of the time). A heat pump model would also earn back some of its cost on a lower heating bill.

 

[begreen]

My suspicion is that heating the upper floor of the A frame is not a big issue, especially if there is a woodstove on the main floor. That's why I suggested AC only. But if heating is an issue then yes, a heat pump could be good.

 

[hilly]

Thanks again for all of your input. One of the things we struggling with is the fact that we don't need it for heating. We need something, especially with a 3 year old, but we cannot justify $11k, even if it is only Canadian dollars!

A friend said there were in-wall ac units. We might look at that for the child's room and just leave it at that.

 

[maple1]

How much a month do you spend on heating in the winter?

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Hardest part is hiding the ugly outdoor fan unit ,iv seen them in some stupid places like on the front porch roof.

 

[sportbikerider78]

Thanks again for all of your input. One of the things we struggling with is the fact that we don't need it for heating. We need something, especially with a 3 year old, but we cannot justify $11k, even if it is only Canadian dollars!

A friend said there were in-wall ac units. We might look at that for the child's room and just leave it at that.

That is basically, a window unit framed into the wall.

 

[Don2222]

You guys are great! This conversation is quite helpful. I did lots of checking and I can't find any window ac unit the right dimensions. I'm still waiting on the quote but a family friend installed a ductless system himself and has offered to help us. I'm thinking this is the way to go.
Thanks again!

Hello
What about cutting a square hole in the wall and install a "Thru - The - Wall" unit using a wall sleeve?
I spent from 8 AM to 9 PM one day to install it but now it is done and I just throw a cover on it in the winter. The 2 "Slide Out Chassis" units I installed in the wall 15 and 20 years ago are still going strong!
The new 10k unit I just put in was on sale on Walmart.com for $429 and the wall sleeve was $129 but I got The 230 vac unit to last longer with the stronger motors so the 120 vac units would be cheaper.
See pics
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...onditioner-thru-the-wall-installation.155234/