Pointer to a good appliance repair forum? (non-stove problem)

[Gooserider]

Our clothes dryer has mildly died on us, and I'm trying to figure a repair on it. The unit is older but IMHO is probably repairable, but I need some help with diagnostics. So far all the websites I've found by Googling ave been associated with online parts vendors, and the generic advice they give isn't getting me quite to the root cause of my problem. I also plan to get my parts at the local appliance shop just to save the shipping time / cost, as we don't want to have to fall back on "coin-op hell".... This makes me feel a bit guilty about asking to much on the commercial sites.

Does anyone have a nice forum (like this one) aimed at people doing home appliance repair that they could point me at?

Just on the off chance that someone reading this does have some relevant experience, my problem is:

A Whirlpool dryer, probably around 1994 vintage, model # LGR6848AWO

It dried one load fine, but would not start when I put the next load in.

When the start button is pushed, I get a "Hum" but the drier doesn't start, however I have to turn the timer to off to stop the hum. Sounds like the hum could be coming from either the console or the motor, I can't really tell. The timer ticks the way it always does, and the problem is the same on all cycle settings.

I can turn the drum by hand, although it seemed stiff. Now that I have pulled things apart, the support rollers and idler wheel all turn freely. (As far as I know, they are original parts, should they be changed on the "while I'm in there" basis?)

I checked the three thermal switches / fuses I found in the back. Two are OK (have contiuity), but I have one that I'm unsure about. It has a part # 3387134 on it, and 4 wires going to it - two red and two violet. The red wires have continuity, the violet wires don't (also no continuity between either red and either purple). I can't find anything that says what I should see on the second pair of wires, they just say I should have continuity, with pictures of switches having two wires....

The other obvious suspect is that the motor may have died. The motor turns freely by hand, but didn't want to start when I was testing it with the machine open, however this could have been due to the thermostat mentioned above? I haven't been able to figure out the correct wires to try jumping to in order to meter or jump test it. There are 6 wires connecting to the motor - which ones are the AC power? The motor does not have the "cooked electron" smell or look burned anywheres. The motor has a block on it with 6 terminals numbered
1-6-3 on top and
1-4-5 on the bottom.

the wires are coded as follows -

1. Red - to gas burner
2. Red - from harness
3. Violet - into motor winding
4. Blue - from harness, second tab going into motor through a small black box (doesn't look like a starter cap, tests continuos)
5. White - from harness, to motor
6. Black - from harness
There is also a green to chassis ground from the motor frame.

I would probably have been able to figure this out myself without much trouble if I had a wiring diagram, but I haven't been able to find one. (any pointers?)

Thanks,

Gooserider

 

[restorer]

Goose:
Humm sounds like the motor is trying to start. Take it out, and either send it to a motor shop, or simply replace. They seem to just stop. Have replaced two on a high use unit for Barb and three for my sister when visiting (she has excellent timing). Older units are built better than newer ones, so stick with the quality. If you want to keep the unit, pay for a parts and repair manual when you pick up your parts. It will be worth it.

 

[elkimmeg]

Goose I had a simmilar problem with my early 90 GE it worked but stopped drying I replaced the upper ellement slight improvement
I then replaced the lower ellement mush better a month later the lower element dies. what to do I got well over 150 in parts and looking at another 100
at that point I figured it was not worth it and purchesed new Wish I could help you but I have not gotten that deep into dryers

 

[ChrisN]

Goose, the Gardenweb homesite forums are sometimes pretty good. You could post there on th appliance forum and see if anyone knows:

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/

Good luck, Chris

 

[Gooserider]

Goose, the Gardenweb homesite forums are sometimes pretty good. You could post there on th appliance forum and see if anyone knows:

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/

Good luck, Chris

Thanks much Chris, I will give them a try. The motor is fairly high on my "suspect list" but it looks like the motor is the hardest thing to get out, so I was hoping to be able to prove it was bad before I went for the major surgery (that I think is also probably the most expensive part) The thing that annoys me is that so far I haven't been able to find a schematic - that would answer 99% of my questions right off.

Gooserider

 

[restorer]

Goose, the Gardenweb homesite forums are sometimes pretty good. You could post there on th appliance forum and see if anyone knows:

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/

Good luck, Chris

Thanks much Chris, I will give them a try. The motor is fairly high on my "suspect list" but it looks like the motor is the hardest thing to get out, so I was hoping to be able to prove it was bad before I went for the major surgery (that I think is also probably the most expensive part) The thing that annoys me is that so far I haven't been able to find a schematic - that would answer 99% of my questions right off.

Gooserider

Goose,

One other thought. If it's older and the vent hasn't been serviced in a while, lint will build up in every tight bend in the exhaust. Especially at the exit from the dryer. Pull the vent and probe the back with a hooked coat hanger. If the flue is blocked heat builds up and the high temp sensor will shut the cycle down. A service call could be $50-75, and be nothing more than this.

 

[Corey]

A couple of other thoughts...I guess the drum drive belt was on track and properly tensioned before you took everything apart. If this is slipping or broken, the motor can hum but not turn the drum. Also, I have had pretty good luck finding schematics tucked up inside the housing where the knobs are...usually in a white envelope taped inside...may take a look there.

Good Luck
Corey

 

[Marty]

http://www.repairclinic.com/0003.asp
This place helped me fix my 'no heat' gas dryer recently.
The diagrams are handy for getting an idea of what you are looking for before you start wrenching.
They also have a forum... but the guy who diagnosed my bad fuse was the counter man at my local appliance parts store.

 

[Gooserider]

Marty: http://www.repairclinic.com/0003.asp
This place helped me fix my ‘no heat’ gas dryer recently.

I had acually found them, and put in a contact to their tech support folks before I put the post here. I got the auto response message, but no answer yet otherwise. I didn't get on their forum, though they have an associated forum "fixitnow.com" that sends you to their site for parts, though I'm not sure just what the relation between the two is. The site is amusing, as the guy has a serious shtick of being the "Samurai Appliance Repair Man" with attitude to match... Downside is he demands at least a $5.00 donation to his "beer fund" before you can post.

Corey: A couple of other thoughts...I guess the drum drive belt was on track and properly tensioned before you took everything apart. If this is slipping or broken, the motor can hum but not turn the drum. Also, I have had pretty good luck finding schematics tucked up inside the housing where the knobs are...usually in a white envelope taped inside...may take a look there.

Yup, thats where it turned out to be, just a sticker on the inside of the panel cover - once I had that, I had no major difficulty finding the problem, It turned out I'd been chasing a few things that weren't relevant, but not a big deal.

Uncle Rich: One other thought. If it’s older and the vent hasn’t been serviced in a while, lint will build up in every tight bend in the exhaust. Especially at the exit from the dryer. Pull the vent and probe the back with a hooked coat hanger. If the flue is blocked heat builds up and the high temp sensor will shut the cycle down. A service call could be $50-75, and be nothing more than this.

I ended up pulling the vent off completely - it wasn't the problem, but there was a serious need for cleaning (which AFAIK hasn't been done since the dryer was new ~12 years ago) the inside of the vent looked like a carpet! I vacummed and scraped everything I could reach, including the blower fan and so on. It should help when I get it running again.


Once I found the schematic, I basically started at the hot wire coming into the dryer, and traced the circuit for the motor one part at the time. It wasn't that bad as there was less in that circuit than I thought. I did a mix of verifying things with the ohmeter, then powering it up and see if it still looked good under power. When I found the motor looked good, I used a "suicide cord" to verify that the motor indeed worked fine when it actually had power.

Eventually I found the problem was a defective switch in the timer. The timer has about 10 different switches in it, including one on each side of the motor. The one that powered almost everything was fine, but the one on the other side of the motor didn't close when it was supposed to. I proved it by jumpering the contacts, at which point the motor would start fine. After I pulled the thermostat out, I openned it up and found that one of the electical contact buttons had fallen off.

So tomorrow I go to get a timer...

Thanks to all for the help

Gooserider

 

[ChrisN]

Damn, another DIYer denies his significant other the opportunity to buy a fancy new washer and dryer set!

 

[Marty]

Marty: http://www.repairclinic.com/0003.asp
This place helped me fix my ‘no heat’ gas dryer recently.

I had acually found them, and put in a contact to their tech support folks before I put the post here. I got the auto response message, but no answer yet otherwise. I didn't get on their forum, though they have an associated forum "fixitnow.com" that sends you to their site for parts, though I'm not sure just what the relation between the two is. The site is amusing, as the guy has a serious shtick of being the "Samurai Appliance Repair Man" with attitude to match... Downside is he demands at least a $5.00 donation to his "beer fund" before you can post.

...

Whoa 5 bucks! I never posted but registered so as to be able to search which was free.
They do seem to be hawking the parts sales in the forum pretty heavily... and I found myself wondering if selling replacement parts for household appliances on-line was a tough gig. They also did seem willing and able to walk a willing novice through the process of diagnosing their problem... and seemed to do it with enthusiasm.

Glad to hear it went smoothly

 

[begreen]

Good diagnosis Goose. I love the satisfaction out of fixing a noble appliance and giving it another lease on life. Our Kenmore (1985 Whirlpool) had similar symptoms about 10 years ago. Turn it on and it would hum, but not run. Our problem turned out to be the drive belt had snapped. This is a skinny belt that goes around the motor pulley and then around the entire drum. While in there I found the left support bearing had frozen and that's probably what snapped the belt. I fixed it for under $15 with the thought I'd be replacing the dryer in a year or two. Still going strong with several drying several loads a week.

Maybe hearth.com needs a fixit forum??

 

[Czech]

Darn, and I had my bet on the high temp doohicky for the vent, that has happened to me twice in the last few years. As Elk has said before, good to clean those out every year not only to prevent the doohicky to fail, but aviod a fire. I was pretty amazed at what came out of mine. For what's it worth, I've had a great expereince with repair clinic .com, they were great in diagnosing and have always sent the correct parts (refrig ice maker, stove, dryer).

 

[Gooserider]

Well $104.53 later.... :roll: The dryer is working It should even be better now than it was in years because I cleaned it all out so it should be passing more air. The house might also be a tad warmer as I found the POS dryer vent wasn't closing because all the lint buildup was keeping it open. (I cleaned it out for now, will try to talk the GF into replacing it come warmer weather...) I also replaced the crappy tin-foil vent hose with solid (thin) aluminum ducting that the parts place said was the right stuff for dryers and stove vents.

I got the parts from a local place, Gene's Appliance Parts in Lowell, MA. I paid $79.99 for the timer, and about $20 for the two pieces of duct work and two elbows that I needed to replace the tinfoil. (And $5.00 for the parasites in the Gov't.... ) If you are local to the area, they are good people to deal with.

I didn't shop around for the pipe, but that seems like a reasonable price, or at least it was about what I was expecting it to cost. It was made in Canada by "Deflecto".

FWIW, Repair Clinic had the timer for $73.55, so there wouldn't have been a huge savings getting the timer online, and we probably would have spent that much sitting in "Coin-op Hell" while waiting for the parts to arrive.

There seem to be huge numbers of online appliance parts places, so the business must be pretty profitable. I would also say the online diagnostic help is pretty much essential if you think about their potential customer base market. I'm not in that business, but I would expect there to be two basic customer types - the repair guy, and the DIY person...

The repair guy will know what he needs, and want to get the parts ASAP in order to keep his customers happy. He probably gets a "wholesale discount", but doesn't care all that much about what parts cost since the price will just be passed on to the consumer. He's mostly going to go to the local place because it's faster. He might get a few common "keep on the truck" parts from the online place if it will save him lots, but I wouldn't bet on it.

On the other hand, the DIY person is trying to save money - if he wasn't he would be calling the repair guy he might not be as worried about how fast he can get the parts, but does need more "hand-holding" for diagnostics. So to make the money online, you need to give lots of diagnostic advice, and offer cheap parts - probably at the "wholesale price" the repar guy is paying at the local shop, or close to it.... Most of the diagnostics can be canned "check these things in this order for that symptom" stuff which really doesn't cost all that much... The live help can be a repair guy who is tired of dealing with actually touching the hardware, but knows how to do the diagnostics... OTOH, you don't need a brick and mortar storefront, and so forth.

Gooserider

 

[Gooserider]

Good diagnosis Goose. I love the satisfaction out of fixing a noble appliance and giving it another lease on life. Our Kenmore (1985 Whirlpool) had similar symptoms about 10 years ago. Turn it on and it would hum, but not run. Our problem turned out to be the drive belt had snapped. This is a skinny belt that goes around the motor pulley and then around the entire drum. While in there I found the left support bearing had frozen and that's probably what snapped the belt. I fixed it for under $15 with the thought I'd be replacing the dryer in a year or two. Still going strong with several drying several loads a week.

Maybe hearth.com needs a fixit forum??

Seems like a possible. The question is how much traffic it would get, and how we would avoid getting lots of people coming in that were looking for fixit help and weren't into stoves. I have nothing against those people, but I wouldn't want to risk having the board loose it's focus....

I got some good advice here, but wasn't trying to use the board for that - which is why I was primarily asking for pointers....

I looked at the drive belt and rollers real close when I had everything apart - I even asked on one of the other places if they were "if you see them, change them" type items; but I was told changing them wasn't indicated unless they looked bad. Mine barely showed any wear and spun nicely so I decided not to bother. Actually now that I know how to get the dryer apart, changing the belt and rollers wouldn't be that big of a deal if they ever go.

Gooserider

 

[kevinmoelk]

Glad you got it fixed Goose. Washers and Dryers aren't too complex if you know some basic electrical theory, which clearly you do. Good job with the diagnosis.

I've always just purchased my washers and dryers used with exception of my last washer... since I wanted to "upgrade" to a front loader. That was kind of a waste of money, but that's another story.

Seems like washers and dryers fall into the same category as pianos and pool tables. You can usually find a set or $100-150 bucks on craigs list or in the local paper.

By the way, and this is slightly off topic. A friend of mine made a cool little composter out of an old dryer drum. He found an old solid metal one, then built a stand with wheels at each corner (to avoid the indentation of the beaters). He fashioned a plastic cover to serve as the door that simply swings on a pivot point, and has a latch opposite the pivot. To rotate the drum you simply stand on the side and roll it with your hands. It works great because the large beaters on the inside really break up the compost and it has a bunch of little holes for ventilation. Probably too small for grass clippings or branches, but he lives in a large city and mainly just has kitchen scraps.

-Kevin

 

[restorer]

Good diagnosis Goose. I love the satisfaction out of fixing a noble appliance and giving it another lease on life. Our Kenmore (1985 Whirlpool) had similar symptoms about 10 years ago. Turn it on and it would hum, but not run. Our problem turned out to be the drive belt had snapped. This is a skinny belt that goes around the motor pulley and then around the entire drum. While in there I found the left support bearing had frozen and that's probably what snapped the belt. I fixed it for under $15 with the thought I'd be replacing the dryer in a year or two. Still going strong with several drying several loads a week.

Maybe hearth.com needs a fixit forum??

Seems like a possible. The question is how much traffic it would get, and how we would avoid getting lots of people coming in that were looking for fixit help and weren't into stoves. I have nothing against those people, but I wouldn't want to risk having the board loose it's focus....

I got some good advice here, but wasn't trying to use the board for that - which is why I was primarily asking for pointers....

I looked at the drive belt and rollers real close when I had everything apart - I even asked on one of the other places if they were "if you see them, change them" type items; but I was told changing them wasn't indicated unless they looked bad. Mine barely showed any wear and spun nicely so I decided not to bother. Actually now that I know how to get the dryer apart, changing the belt and rollers wouldn't be that big of a deal if they ever go.

Gooserider

Goose;
Good on 'ya. Older boards should be under a hundred. But they should also last 10-15 years. Keep that duct clean. Smooth pipe, clean duct will mean a 40-60 % savings in energy over a real log jam with crinkle pipe. It's move 60-70% more air. Reduce drying time dramatically.

As to a Fixit Forum, very good idea. We all have our special skills, and we seem to trust each other, mostly. At least you can tell the wheat from the chaff. Make the FIXIT private like the Ash Can. Don't let the public in, but let legitimate members ask and share. I'm sure amongst all of us we could build a better State House, or a finer scrounging pick up with mounted splitter and a log pick boom for under $1,000.

 

[Gooserider]

Glad you got it fixed Goose. Washers and Dryers aren't too complex if you know some basic electrical theory, which clearly you do. Good job with the diagnosis.

I've always just purchased my washers and dryers used with exception of my last washer... since I wanted to "upgrade" to a front loader. That was kind of a waste of money, but that's another story.

Seems like washers and dryers fall into the same category as pianos and pool tables. You can usually find a set or $100-150 bucks on craigs list or in the local paper.

By the way, and this is slightly off topic. A friend of mine made a cool little composter out of an old dryer drum. He found an old solid metal one, then built a stand with wheels at each corner (to avoid the indentation of the beaters). He fashioned a plastic cover to serve as the door that simply swings on a pivot point, and has a latch opposite the pivot. To rotate the drum you simply stand on the side and roll it with your hands. It works great because the large beaters on the inside really break up the compost and it has a bunch of little holes for ventilation. Probably too small for grass clippings or branches, but he lives in a large city and mainly just has kitchen scraps.

-Kevin

The composter sounds like a reasonable idea if you are into compost (I'm not) but seems to me like he over did it on the design... I'd probably leave the unit just as it was with the drum in the cabinet, and set it up so that the lid wasn't fastened down, and chop the belt off. Load through the drier door, and spin by lifting the top of the cabinet, reaching in and spinning... Why get fancy?

I realize this might have been a marginal repair compared to the cost of a "new used" drier, but the machine is in good shape otherwise, and a fairly fancy model for it's day. We know that with just the two of us, it hasn't been used excessively for it's age, so keeping it gives us a machine that we know the history on and avoids the "hassle factor" of finding a replacement, getting it, installing, and so forth...

Gooserider

 

[kevinmoelk]

The composter sounds like a reasonable idea if you are into compost (I'm not) but seems to me like he over did it on the design... I'd probably leave the unit just as it was with the drum in the cabinet, and set it up so that the lid wasn't fastened down, and chop the belt off. Load through the drier door, and spin by lifting the top of the cabinet, reaching in and spinning... Why get fancy?

I realize this might have been a marginal repair compared to the cost of a "new used" drier, but the machine is in good shape otherwise, and a fairly fancy model for it's day. We know that with just the two of us, it hasn't been used excessively for it's age, so keeping it gives us a machine that we know the history on and avoids the "hassle factor" of finding a replacement, getting it, installing, and so forth...

Gooserider

I think my friend just started out with the dryer drum, but I agree maintaining the door would be far simpler. Though I'm not sure about how good the air circulation would be without the casing removed.

For the record, I wasn't trying to knock your decision about the dryer. There's nothing more satisfying than doing something yourself. And certainly knowing where the machine has been for its life is advantageous. I was only stating that a used unit is easy and affordable to find. No offense intended.

-Kevin

 

[Gooserider]

The composter sounds like a reasonable idea if you are into compost (I'm not) but seems to me like he over did it on the design... I'd probably leave the unit just as it was with the drum in the cabinet, and set it up so that the lid wasn't fastened down, and chop the belt off. Load through the drier door, and spin by lifting the top of the cabinet, reaching in and spinning... Why get fancy?

I realize this might have been a marginal repair compared to the cost of a "new used" drier, but the machine is in good shape otherwise, and a fairly fancy model for it's day. We know that with just the two of us, it hasn't been used excessively for it's age, so keeping it gives us a machine that we know the history on and avoids the "hassle factor" of finding a replacement, getting it, installing, and so forth...

Gooserider

I think my friend just started out with the dryer drum, but I agree maintaining the door would be far simpler. Though I'm not sure about how good the air circulation would be without the casing removed.

For the record, I wasn't trying to knock your decision about the dryer. There's nothing more satisfying than doing something yourself. And certainly knowing where the machine has been for its life is advantageous. I was only stating that a used unit is easy and affordable to find. No offense intended.

-Kevin

No offense taken, and I didn't think it was intended :coolsmile: I've been on the net long enough (and BBS's before that) that I know all about the problems with not being able to carry "tone of voice" in e-mail text, and so forth. My default is that unless the message has clear and unmistakable "flame and insult content" I assume that the intent was good... It keeps the blood pressure down and avoids disagreements.

I also try to make sure that if I disagree with someone, that I'm not attacking them, but only their ideas - I don't always succeed, but I try!

Getting back to the composter idea, if the air circulation did turn out to be a problem, one could presumably take a sawzall or other implement of destruction and put a few holes in the cabinet sides, or just remove the lid completely. I guess I was thinking more in terms of keeping rain and such out of the bearings, though I don't know how much of an issue that would be.

I've never gotten into composting that much, I don't do that much gardening and the last thing in the world I want the lawn to do is grow - I've never understood the point in putting stuff on the lawn to make it grow so that you have to go out and cut it more often.... Isn't this what is known as making extra work for yourself? :roll: I figure our lawn is wonderful, it grows tons of dandelions and clover (good for my bees) and a nice assortment of other flowering weeds to keep my bees happy, plus it turns brown in the summer so I don't have to mow it all that often. We've even had real estate agents come by and offer to mow it for us! :lol:

I do grow some hot peppers in raised tire beds - but I don't use compost, instead I use a 50-50 blend of potting soil and llama chit that I get from my bee supply lady - one of the few cases where a business person gives me a bunch of chit and I say thanks!

Gooserider