Please help! New install....pipe doesn't look right...

[webbie]

RE: Pay after inspected......

Things have certainly changed, however my experience as a retailer was that I HAD to get paid at the completion of work - usually before inspection. Why? We did up to 30 installations a week, and given human nature and normal events I can 100% guarantee that we would have lost vast sums of money if we had not collected $$$ at completion.

Yes, I know this is a different subject.....

Since our shop was in business for 20+ years and a solid part of the community, our buyers had no problems with paying at completion. In fact, many paid in full at the shop when they bought the stove! This is a trust relationship and is definitely the best kind. It may not be normal everywhere...things do vary.

When I bought my first chain saw, I didn't have the money to pay. No credit card either. The shop told me I could pay $10 a month - which I did. I moved from the area before I paid it off, but you can be certain I stopped in and settled the account!

The other end of the spectrum seems to occur here in Western Ma. We have had many contractors do work here and they pretty much insist NOT to be paid at completion. "We'll send you a bill" is very typical, even though I've never done biz with them before and perhaps never will again. In most places, this would be bad business as I am usually offering a check to them on the spot. But I guess it is one of the advantages of smaller towns.

Just to offer some perspective, there were perhaps 20 times in 20 years that our installers DID NOT pick up payment at the job on completion. I probably got screwed on 3 of those. That is WAY too high of a percentage for me.......

The customer wields a pretty good weapon just in word-of-mouth, let alone the County Consumer Affairs office, stove manufacturer, etc.

 

[begreen]

Just to offer some perspective, there were perhaps 20 times in 20 years that our installers DID NOT pick up payment at the job on completion. I probably got screwed on 3 of those. That is WAY too high of a percentage for me.......

The customer wields a pretty good weapon just in word-of-mouth, let alone the County Consumer Affairs office, stove manufacturer, etc.

Not to mention, this website. Dealers and manufacturers are having to face a more informed public now.

 

[CountryGal]

Marylu, I would be extremely unhappy with that install and the reasons you were given (rather, NON reasons) for having a crooked pipe and not doing the top venting that you requested and PAID for.

I paid upfront for my stove and new hearth, and when I signed off with the installer we went over everything that was ordered and not used (just in case we needed it, etc), then the next day went into the store and they refunded my credit card on the spot--based on what I told them. They didn't even bother calling their installer.

Don't rest until they come back out and make it right.

 

[marylu]

Update:
I emailed the store last evening as planned, expressing my concerns and linking to this thread. Then I followed up with a phone call today. I spoke with the owner for close to 45 minutes. He had read this thread and also looked at the pictures posted in this thread prior to my phone call. He took the time to explain several things to me. One dealt with the top vent option. The installer had determined it was best to install a flexible 4 inch liner into our current chimney. Reason being that our clay liner was cracked at the very top of the chimney. His thoughts were that if it was cracked there, then there could well be other cracks further down in the chimney liner as well.

As the owner explained to me, with the 4 inch flexible liner installed, the top vent kit was not an option. That (I think he called it...) a positive pressure seal was then needed and pellet pipe was also needed to be used because of this. That the top vent kit is only meant to vent into an existing masonry chimney and not feed into a fexible liner.

The owner also explained that by installing the liner, the installer did not take the "quick" way out. That the top vent option would actually have been an easier, quicker install than the one that was done. I told him that I appreciated that, but that I hoped we could resolve the way the stove pipes were installed so that it would be visually pleasing as well as effective in enabling to stove to operate in the manner it should. I also told him that I realize that our install is not the "usual" type of install.

He has said that he also wants to speak with the installer to see why he felt it necesary to install the pipes the way he did. However, he did agree with me that there was perhaps a better way the pipe install could have been done. There are several aspects of the install he mentioned that he wanted to discuss with the installer. However, having not had an opportunity to speak with the installer yet, he first wants that opportunity. He will be unable to talk to the installer until sometime next week, as here in Wisconsin opening deer season is tomorrow morning and the installer is a deer hunter...also Thanksgiving next week as well. He did say that he would get back to me after speaking with the installer and that probably not next week but the following week, after the owner and installer have had time to talk, he would contact me with possible solution(s).

I am hopeful at this point that it can be resolved in a friendly, businesslike manner.

 

[HarryBack]

Elks' ideas above

Spoke to our Inspector in our town. He told me that while the permit can be taken out by the installer, the certificate of compliance is site-specific and if it passes, irregardless of who took out the permit, its valid for said property in question. So, by signing the compliance certificate, the homeowner gets what he/she wants, irregardless of the unit being completely paid for or not. I dont think its the inspectors job to ensure Ive gotten paid, only that the install has been done correctly and according to the manufacturers specification. Nope, even though in theory your way of doing things sounds great, Id still insist on being paid when I leave the house after the install, even to the point of having a contract drawn up stating so.

Did you know if I drive by your home and suspect you have installed a stove without a permit that codes allow me to notify you to have it removed and from that day forward you will be fined up to the maxium of $500 a day each day the violation exist.

Isnt this actually not a state law but a local code voted in usually under the auspices of a non-criminal complaint bylaw? So this would be town-specific. The reason for these noncriminal complaint bylaws is that it gives the official an option to levy fines without taking the time, effort, and money to go to court? If it does ever get to court, and the town wins, they get the fines, but if the homeowner wins, they get the fines lifted. Pretty dicey in small towns especially.

 

[elkimmeg]

Court is a joke and a waste of time. first of all you are represented by town council, who knows squat about code. The people are defended with an attorney
equally as ingorant to code. I sit back and watch the bs going on. and wonder why Im even there. In the end some settlement is made, that may or may not pertain to any code issues
ITS a wasted day I try to stay out of court and get issues resolved, without they regressing that far.

 

[fastrac]

Update:
I emailed the store last evening as planned, expressing my concerns and linking to this thread. Then I followed up with a phone call today. I spoke with the owner for close to 45 minutes. He had read this thread and also looked at the pictures posted in this thread prior to my phone call. He took the time to explain several things to me. One dealt with the top vent option. The installer had determined it was best to install a flexible 4 inch liner into our current chimney. Reason being that our clay liner was cracked at the very top of the chimney. His thoughts were that if it was cracked there, then there could well be other cracks further down in the chimney liner as well.

As the owner explained to me, with the 4 inch flexible liner installed, the top vent kit was not an option. That (I think he called it...) a positive pressure seal was then needed and pellet pipe was also needed to be used because of this. That the top vent kit is only meant to vent into an existing masonry chimney and not feed into a fexible liner.

The owner also explained that by installing the liner, the installer did not take the "quick" way out. That the top vent option would actually have been an easier, quicker install than the one that was done. I told him that I appreciated that, but that I hoped we could resolve the way the stove pipes were installed so that it would be visually pleasing as well as effective in enabling to stove to operate in the manner it should. I also told him that I realize that our install is not the "usual" type of install.

He has said that he also wants to speak with the installer to see why he felt it necesary to install the pipes the way he did. However, he did agree with me that there was perhaps a better way the pipe install could have been done. There are several aspects of the install he mentioned that he wanted to discuss with the installer. However, having not had an opportunity to speak with the installer yet, he first wants that opportunity. He will be unable to talk to the installer until sometime next week, as here in Wisconsin opening deer season is tomorrow morning and the installer is a deer hunter...also Thanksgiving next week as well. He did say that he would get back to me after speaking with the installer and that probably not next week but the following week, after the owner and installer have had time to talk, he would contact me with possible solution(s).

I am hopeful at this point that it can be resolved in a friendly, businesslike manner.

What does it matter what the installer says? What is he going to ask, "why did you install the piping at Marylus home crooked" What does it matter what the installer says, He should be more concerned with how to correct the problem and how is going to get therebefore you cancel your payment for the job. Time is on his side now as you wait,

As a consumer I would have a requested a visit to my home by the salesperson who sold this to me, and the owner of the company who allowed this type of shoddy work to be completed with a reassurance that they would correct this in a timely manner and a safe manner. Sincerley if tthey had left that piping visable in my home for all to see I would be concerned with what sin's my be hidden out of site.

me personally would be reading the installation manual just double checking all of the clearences are being followed

Good luck

 

[moog5]

Here is a picture of my XXV top vent adapter installed .

 

[marylu]

Thanks for the picture of the top vent. Wish we could have gone that route. As I understand it now, the reason we could not use the top vent was because we had a flexible liner installed in our masonry chimney during the install and the top vent only works venting directly into a masonry chimney.

The installer did call back on Wednesday while I was at work. Left a message and said he would be gone for a few days. I plan to call him back on Monday. Evidently the owner did contact him. So, I will know more after I have spoken with him. Will keep everyone updated.
Marylu

 

[BrotherBart]

Been following the saga and really hope somebody fixes that crappy looking installation.

But I have also been dieing to ask you for a week if Ricky Nelson is your favorite singer of all time or your worst nightmare.

 

[Robbie]

BB, ok, I got to know, what does Ricky N. have to do with this install ? :lol:


Robbie

 

[marylu]

Ricky Nelson...well I have to admit that I am from that generation. Over the years I have gotten a lot of teasing about it.... but hey, it's a great song! Then add to that the fact that my middle name is Cecilia and where do you go from there?

 

[BrotherBart]

Ricky Nelson...well I have to admit that I am from that generation. Over the years I have gotten a lot of teasing about it.... but hey, it's a great song! Then add to that the fact that my middle name is Cecilia and where do you go from there?

Your're breakin my heart!

 

[begreen]

You're shaking my confidence BB.

 

[jjbaer]

Been following the saga and really hope somebody fixes that crappy looking installation.

But I have also been dieing to ask you for a week if Ricky Nelson is your favorite singer of all time or your worst nightmare.

Nelson mentions a MaryLou or some other spelling version in one of his songs......

 

[CountryGal]

Been following the saga and really hope somebody fixes that crappy looking installation.

But I have also been dieing to ask you for a week if Ricky Nelson is your favorite singer of all time or your worst nightmare.

Nelson mentions a MaryLou or some other spelling version in one of his songs......

You passed me by one sunny day
Flashed those big brown eyes my way
And oo I wanted you forever more
Now I'm not one that gets around
I swear my feet stuck to the ground
And though I never did meet you before

[chorus:]
I said "Hello Mary Lou
Goodbye heart
Sweet Mary Lou
I'm so in love with you

I knew Mary Lou
We'd never part
So Hello Mary Lou
Goodbye heart"

I saw your lips I heard your voice
believe me I just had no choice
Wild horses couldn't make me stay away
I thought about a moonlit night
My arms about good an' tight
That's all I had to see for me to say

[chorus]


Sadly, I was working with his brother David when Rick's plane crashed and their mom, Harriet heard about it on the news.
Never met Rick but Dave and I worked together for almost 20 years.

 

[sailor61]

I've heated with wood for years, had a few problems along the way. I would not be comfortable lighting this. And I would consider taking several steps;

1) Contact whoever you hired to do this job IMMEDIATELY and request that the owner/licensee come out to review the install. Get a signed service order/work order from them stating that it is ok or not ok- if they are not responsive;

2) Call your bank and stop payment on the check if that's how you paid the installer -
3) If a credit card notify the CC company that you have a dispute on the workmanship

And I would definitely contact the town/county building inspector or fire department to have them inspect this. It is also possible that your homeowner's underwriter or agent might be able to reccomend an independent fire inspector to review the install.

It appears to be too close to the wall and as if the pipes may not be adequately connected.

Evenif it passes muster on a safety level - cosmetically you have every right ot be upset.

 

[BrotherBart]

Sadly, I was working with his brother David when Rick's plane crashed and their mom, Harriet heard about it on the news.
Never met Rick but Dave and I worked together for almost 20 years.

Ah, so you were in "the business". Dave always seemed like a nice guy on screen and off.