Planning A Wood Boiler - Upstate NY

[adamsih300u]

Hello everyone,

I'm hoping this is the right spot to post. I am thinking / planning a wood boiler install for our home.

We're near Rochester NY, so it gets cold (and has been colder than usual this year), but I've seen worse. The house is roughly 1600 sq. ft. total, with the oldest part built in 1860, the kitchen and dining area in the 1940s, and then the laundry room in the early '70s.

Beside the house, we have a detached block garage, of which 1/3 is walled off and insulated from the rest which I use as a workshop. Roughly 375 sq. ft, but it's a high bay so probably 20+ ft. to the peak of the (uninsulated) ceiling. The high bay door is old and made of wood, but it's something I'm hoping to replace this year.

The goal is to heat the house and the workshop. I am hoping to build a 10x18 greenhouse to the south side of the workshop at some point, so would probably consider extending the workshop loop into there to keep plants from freezing, but that's strictly speculative at the moment. I would also plan to do domestic hot water, probably switch to an electric hot water heater in the basement to get rid of our propane one in the laundry room.

My thinking, based on research here, runs toward the Heatmaster G7000 or maybe a Crown Royal 7300e? I know more thermal water storage would be better, but I'm not sure what I can get away with in our cellar, the ceiling is less than 6', so kind of hard to put anything down there.

Currently the house is heated by a woodstove at one end of the house. The laundry room at the extreme opposite end gets quite cold. We have some copper fin radiators still in the house from a previous oil burner, so my hope would be to revive those for now, and upgrade possibly to something a little nicer later. The hydronic radiators ran two loops in the past, my hope would be to re-arrange it to be multiple loops downstairs. Upstairs is trickier because getting the lines upstairs is hard (foundation sills are 8x8 beams, so you can't get into the wall cavities easily, and there's not really a chase to the second floor).

For the workshop I was envisioning a high-BTU water-to-air unit.

Complexities: The arrangement of the house and garage is a little odd. I'm worried about the septic in the backyard being in the way of running boiler lines, so wanted to get some input on that. I've attached a general diagram of two locations I could see working.

I've attached a picture (hopefully did that right) with possible boiler locations in red. It's not 100% to scale, but hopefully gives a rough idea.
Appreciate any and all advise on models, locations, etc., as I'm still thinking this through and trying to make the best choices.

Thanks!

 

[adamsih300u]

Should have mentioned, the red blocks are MY thoughts on where a boiler could go, but certainly open to other ideas.

 

[sloeffle]

A G7000 is way too big for what you are wanting to heat. With the new gasification OWB's a little smaller is a lot better than bigger. They are creosote making machines inside of the Firefox when sized properly, and will be worse when sized too small. I'm heating roughly 2200 sq ft in OH and my G4000 has zero problems keeping up. If you don't have dry wood, you will have nothing but a miserable time with any kind of gasification boiler on the market. Hopefully you have many cords of wood CSS already and drying. Don't skimp out on underground lines, and cash talks. I got a healthy discount when I paid for my boiler in cash.

If you are looking at it from a ROI perspective I think you'll be pretty disappointed, especially if you are buying $300 a cord firewood. I have mine because I like the idea of being somewhat energy independent and I have hundreds of dead ash trees on the ground. If you are looking at it from a dollar and cents perspective I'd high recommend looking into mini splits especially with your complicated layout. This is a really good thread about mini splits during cold weather.

Insulation, and air sealing don't need cut, split or fed into into a boiler, and pay you back 24x7. If you can do any kind of insulation upgrades in your house, I would do those first too.

 

[all night moe]

Keep in mind, you have to get wood to the ''boiler.'' Most place an OWB where they process their wood.
Another thought is to use an indoor unit in your garage with thermal water storage. This allows you to ''batch burn.'' Run it full bore untill the water is charged. A good storage system will allow you to burn once a day or less, depending on system storage.

The G7000 may be to much. Keep in mind whatever you purchase new, has to be EPA approved for the out door models.
If you buy used, beware of abused units.

Lots of reading and studying to do.

 

[sloeffle]

Another thought is to use an indoor unit in your garage with thermal water storage. This allows you to ''batch burn.'' Run it full bore untill the water is charged. A good storage system will allow you to burn once a day or less, depending on system storage.

100% agree, but dang you are looking at some serious cash. Does 20k even get you close these days ?

 

[all night moe]

Lots of reading and studying to do.

You're in the right place for it. Many knowledgeable fellas here. I have learned a lot here.

 

[all night moe]

100% agree, but dang you are looking at some serious cash. Does 20k even get you close these days ?

15-18k seems to be the average for just a current new OWB, Add in the underground lines, we all know buy once cry once for the good stuff, and then all the rest of the components. Ca-ching, ca-ching, ca-ching.....

Tis why I'm building my own gasser. If I was buying, I'd most likely get a Polar G3. That would fit my heating needs of 4500sq ft farmhouse, and DHW. That's a 18k unit. A G2 with storage, like cumminstinkerer would work also. My under ground run is 160' where I need to be. That's what....about 3k for the lines. LOL

 

[sloeffle]

15-18k seems to be the average for just a current new OWB, Add in the underground lines, we all know buy once cry once for the good stuff, and then all the rest of the components. Ca-ching, ca-ching, ca-ching.....

I meant for IWB plus storage, and all of the other goodies you will. I don't think you can get into a bought EPA certified IWB gasification boiler with storage for under 20k.

I think I spent 2k just in incidentals for my installation. It adds up quick if you buy good stuff.

 

[adamsih300u]

I appreciate all of the replies, and also the guidance that the current units I'm looking at are too big.

Many years ago my parents ran an outdoor Central Boiler (before gasification days) when I was a teenager, and loved it, hence my desire to get back to something like that. I can get my unseasoned wood for $210/cord, delivered, and I have three acres which is more than enough room to stockpile it and let it age one or two years. If need be I could also ask the owner of the large cow pasture across the road to harvest from their woods. The independence is really nice, and I'll save ~$1200 a year on propane as well, as our domestic hot water is our only propane appliance. I might still run an electric hot water heater during the summer months, but I anticipate there'd still be partial savings. Especially if I ever get to solar off-grid.

I'm not afraid to burn more wood; it's about firming up the house for consistent heat throughout, and also getting rid of the propane hot water heater. I currently have four cord (not a ton, I know) seasoning outside for next winter, and with our current setup that's probably two years worth. I leave it stacked outside next to the garage until the appointed season, then move it all inside the garage. I have good door access on all sides of the garage, so getting wood to the boiler would be a piece of cake. Even easier if the boiler were inside, and I have thought about that, but I'm not sure I can justify the space, plus having other flammable equipment in there would probably be asking for trouble.

I did read the thread on boiler lines, I liked the pex with the closed cell foam insulation, and there's a home services company up the road that does closed cell insulation. I could probably 3D print some spacers that would separate the two lines. So that is probably not going to be too hard, assuming no other issues.

I'm not opposed to running a mini-split for the workshop, if that wound up being the easier solution. A hybrid setup is fine, but it'll be really nice to use that space in the winter.

Thanks again!

 

[all night moe]

my hope would be to re-arrange it to be multiple loops downstairs. Upstairs is trickier because getting the lines upstairs is hard (foundation sills are 8x8 beams, so you can't get into the wall cavities easily, and there's not really a chase to the second floor).

For your timber frame, I would suggest an interior room to run lines upstairs. Closet/s would be ideal. I don't know the layout of your house. Mine is timber frame and a ballooned frame addition. A bit more than half is remodeled between both floors. My 2nd floor hasn't had heat since the pot bellied room heaters were removed, decades ago. I have a smaller addition piggy backed to an exterior wall of the balloon framing. Although there are supposed fire stops installed from the last remodel, I'm going to use that wall to run lines into my attic for the 2nd floor loop. From there I will drop down into the rooms for cast iron rads. Best solution I can come up with.

 

[brenndatomu]

A G7000 is way too big for what you are wanting to heat.

Yup, overkill for sure. G4000 will be plenty!
Buy the best underground lines you can find, don't cheap out!

 

[sloeffle]

There’s a guy in Ohio selling a G4000 with stuck turbulators for 5k on Facebook. There’s a trick to getting them unstuck but it could also turn into a lot of work if the trick doesn’t work.

 

[all night moe]

There’s a guy in Ohio selling a G4000 with stuck turbulators for 5k on Facebook. There’s a trick to getting them unstuck but it could also turn into a lot of work if the trick doesn’t work.

Ha FB MP had a Polar G2 1 1/2hrs from me. 3500 "needs TLC." With that the few pics showed a creosol factory. I can only imagine what it would take to clean it out proper. poor turbulators and draft fan....... I considered it. Between the care needed, transporting it, and being undersized, I passed.