Pipes freezing....?????

[Dix]

What happens when there is no heat for the thermostat to call for? IE, the furnace doesn't work ( tank issues, clogged lines). It has power, which I turned on for the circulator to work, but it won't fire up.

Pardon my ignorance, I'd really like to know.

And the answer of calling the repairman, >:-(

 

[b33p3r]

Just thought I'd throw this info in. I have an oil boiler and use circulator pumps to hot water baseboard. If temp drops too low in boiler, the aquastat will turn the pumps OFF so it can build up heat. So you are not always circulating water. I don't know if other systems act the same way.

 

[stejus]

Just thought I'd throw this info in. I have an oil boiler and use circulator pumps to hot water baseboard. If temp drops too low in boiler, the aquastat will turn the pumps OFF so it can build up heat. So you are not always circulating water. I don't know if other systems act the same way.

My set up is two zone forced hot water (baseboard) and tankless domestic hot water. My furnace (Cast Iron boiler) with tankless water coil with a Beckett Oil Burner work with a Honeywell Aquastat. There are two settings. I'm not a boiler tech, just know enough to be dangerous.

Low - this is for domestic hot water with a differential setting temp. When the internal burner temps fall below the low - differential, it fires until the low temp is reached. So a low boiler temp of 140 with a differential of 15 will have temps fall to 125 (140 - 15 = 125) and then it will fire until 140 is reached.

Hi - this is used for forced hot water baseboard heat control by thermostats. Once the thermostat calls for heat, the zone valve opens and forces water through the boiler. If the boiler is hot enough, it will not fire until the internal boiler temp falls below a set difference (around a 10 degree difference). So a Hi set to 240 will fall to 230 and then fire again if there is a call for heat. Water continues to circulate until the thermostat temp is reached. At that point the zone is closed and the boiler will start is fall to the low temp.

So, during the colder months, your boiler is basically running around the Hi all the time if your thermostat is calling for heat. During the periods where heat is not being called often, the internal boiler temp will fall to the low - differential. Basically the low is taking over now to maintain domestic hot water.

This is the reason those with wood stove heat need to be concerned and the reason for the OP. If the water is not be circulated because thermostat is not calling for heat, there is risk of freezing the water in the pipes. Pipes in basements, exterior walls, attics and closed off rooms are subject to freezing when temps are in the 0 and sub zero range.

 

[begreen]

What happens when there is no heat for the thermostat to call for? IE, the furnace doesn't work ( tank issues, clogged lines). It has power, which I turned on for the circulator to work, but it won't fire up.

Pardon my ignorance, I'd really like to know.

And the answer of calling the repairman, >:-(

The first thing to do is to make sure that the unit is really getting power.How did you turn the boiler on? Thermostat alone?

First, check that the breaker is on for the furnace in the main circuit breaker panel. The, check to see if there is a service switch that is turned off. This may be at or nearby the boiler itself. Or it may be at the top of the stairs leading down to the boiler. When you are sure that all switches are on, turn the temp on the thermostat down below room temp. (get the dixette to help here).

Now, go down to the boiler. Then, have the Dixette turn up the temperature to above room temp while you listen closely for any clicks, etc. at the boiler. If you hear a relay click in, the boiler has power and the thermostat is working. Note: This is an area where there really is not a lot to fiddle with, so proceed with caution. Look on the boiler for where the actual oil burner is. See if on the side of the actual oil burner, there is a red, reset button. If you push it in, and the burner starts, but then shuts off again, you need to call a service person.

The reset is for a photocell detector that watches for ignition. If triggered, it's not detecting fire and shuts down the unit. It could be due gunk in the lines from sitting too long, plugged nozzle or filter, dirty burn, etc. Small lecture... this is why I urge people to cycle their heating system regularly, even if they don't use it for primary heat. Like a generator, you want it working well when you really need it.

 

[My Oslo heats my home]

I didn't read everyones responses just the initial post. My concern was the attic heat loss. Did Mike say the outside temp was 18 and the attic was 40? Cause for concern ...

 

[Dix]

What happens when there is no heat for the thermostat to call for? IE, the furnace doesn't work ( tank issues, clogged lines). It has power, which I turned on for the circulator to work, but it won't fire up.

Pardon my ignorance, I'd really like to know.

And the answer of calling the repairman, >:-(

The first thing to do is to make sure that the unit is really getting power.How did you turn the boiler on? Thermostat alone?

First, check that the breaker is on for the furnace in the main circuit breaker panel. The, check to see if there is a service switch that is turned off. This may be at or nearby the boiler itself. Or it may be at the top of the stairs leading down to the boiler. When you are sure that all switches are on, turn the temp on the thermostat down below room temp. (get the dixette to help here).

Now, go down to the boiler. Then, have the Dixette turn up the temperature to above room temp while you listen closely for any clicks, etc. at the boiler. If you hear a relay click in, the boiler has power and the thermostat is working. Note: This is an area where there really is not a lot to fiddle with, so proceed with caution. Look on the boiler for where the actual oil burner is. See if on the side of the actual oil burner, there is a red, reset button. If you push it in, and the burner starts, but then shuts off again, you need to call a service person.

The reset is for a photocell detector that watches for ignition. If triggered, it's not detecting fire and shuts down the unit. It could be due gunk in the lines from sitting too long, plugged nozzle or filter, dirty burn, etc. Small lecture... this is why I urge people to cycle their heating system regularly, even if they don't use it for primary heat. Like a generator, you want it working well when you really need it.

Thanks, BG. I have 2 emergency switches for the burner, one at the burner and one at the top of the basement stairs, both are "on". I had a broken pipe from the last cold spell in the apartment zone last week. I have turned off the water from the burner to that zone, after turning off the main water inlet into the house, and letting the system drain as best as possible. I did not hit the reset, as I know the burner will not fire. The leak is under the floor of the master bedroom at the very back of the house. This floor is on a raised "platform" with pretty much dirt under it. In the spring, I'll tackle that issue. Labor intensive, not to costly.

Master bedroom is at the lower middle of the house, marked 10' 4" X 15" 6". Broken pipe is along the back wall, right corner.

Both thermostats were off, and when were turned on seperately, caused a click at the burner They are both now on, and each is set at 80F. We've never gotten the entire house above 75F, so I think that's a safe bet for allowing both circulators to kick in. I figure the circulator for the apartment/master bedroom zone will kick in and hopefully drain some more water out of that line? Wishful thinking, maybe, but I don't have much to loose at this point. I also hope that the main house circulator will keep the main house from freezing with the cold weather coming in tonight. We're looking at 0F or less. Worse comes to worse, and something breaks, I'll turn off that zone, as well from the burner.


If I make it through this cold snap, is there a way to drain the water from the pipes? Do they have to have an anti freeze in them? Obviously the lower zone needs no anti freeze. I realize I did not think this thru, fully. Mea Culpa :-S

Thanks, BG !

 

[firefighterjake]

Not sure how relevant it is . . . but doesn't one of our members -- Bridgerman maybe is his name??? -- have an add-on device for thermostats to help circulate the water without turning on the heat to prevent frozen pipes?

For my part I find it a bit ironic . . . around here when the temps plunge many folks start to use their woodstoves to keep the place warm . . . for me one of the few times that I use my oil boiler instead of my woodstove is now . . . simply to prevent frozen pipes.

 

[stejus]

Not sure how relevant it is . . . but doesn't one of our members -- Bridgerman maybe is his name??? -- have an add-on device for thermostats to help circulate the water without turning on the heat to prevent frozen pipes?

For my part I find it a bit ironic . . . around here when the temps plunge many folks start to use their woodstove to keep the place warm . . . for me one of the few times that I use my oil boiler instead of my woodstove is now . . . simply to prevent frozen pipes.

I think someone already mentioned a product called Thermgaurd. This will cycle the water but in my case, fire up the boiler because the cooler water will trigger the burner. It's a useful product no doubt to cycle as often as needed during the extreme temps.

In my case, I am cycling the heat manually throughout the day for short cycles. Every 2 hours I let the oil heat run for 5 minutes. At night I set the programmable thermostat to cycle a few times in the wee hours of the morning.

My oil burner uses .75 gallons an hour. I figure this is cheap insurance to prevent major damage. I'm just glad this is not the norm around these parts. My house isn't insulated to spend too much time in sub zero temps!

 

[bridgerman]

Not sure how relevant it is . . . but doesn't one of our members -- Bridgerman maybe is his name??? -- have an add-on device for thermostats to help circulate the water without turning on the heat to prevent frozen pipes?

For my part I find it a bit ironic . . . around here when the temps plunge many folks start to use their woodstoves to keep the place warm . . . for me one of the few times that I use my oil boiler instead of my woodstove is now . . . simply to prevent frozen pipes.

Thanks for the plug guys....Yes ThermGuard will solve the problem. It only has two wires to it. It can connect to the thermostat or it can be placed in the boiler room. ThermGuard can be programmed to cycle the boiler as you would like. The duration the boiler runs is programmable in 1 minute steps and how long between running can be programmed in 15 minute intervals.....so for instance, you can program ThermGuard to come on for 5 minutes every two hours if you would like. You set it and forget it. When the weather warms up, just turn it off. ThermGuard remembers your settings when you power it back up. It remembers your settings even through a power failure. ThermGuard needs no maintenance and requires no batteries.

I would be happy to answer any other questions.

Cheers,
John (Bridgerman)

 

[stejus]

It can connect to the thermostat or it can be placed in the boiler room. ThermGuard can be programmed to cycle the boiler as you would like.

I would be happy to answer any other questions.

Cheers,
John (Bridgerman)[/quote]

John,

When you say it can connect in the boiler room, where would that connect? I assume the zone valve where the thermostat wires terminate?

Thanks,
Steve

 

[bridgerman]

It can connect to the thermostat or it can be placed in the boiler room. ThermGuard can be programmed to cycle the boiler as you would like.

I would be happy to answer any other questions.

Cheers,
John (Bridgerman)

John,

When you say it can connect in the boiler room, where would that connect? I assume the zone valve where the thermostat wires terminate?

Thanks,
Steve[/quote]

Hi Steve,

You are sort of correct. You just find where the thermostat wires come into the boiler room and connect ThermGuard across the wires there (white and red usually). ThermGuard would not connect across the zone valve terminals.

Cheers,
John

 

[Don2222]

Hello

I have an unheated garage with DHW pipes and baseboard heating pipes not on running through it. Since my stove is in the basement next to the garage, I open the insulated metal door a crack on really cold nights so the heat will keep the garage above 32 degrees. It works.

There is a new product for protecting water pipes down to -30 degrees called Ice-Loc
http://www.iceloc.com/How_To.html

Also on about.com are 8 pages of some good tips on frozen pipes in your home.

http://homerepair.about.com/od/plumbingrepair/ss/thaw_frzn_pipe.htm

From Page 5 of 8
Preventing Frozen Pipes
There are a few things you can do to prevent the problem of freezing pipes from occurring again.

* Leave the faucet drip slightly as a trickle. The dripping water will keep the water in the pipe from freezing.
* Open kitchen base cabinet and let room air circulate.
* Open kitchen base cabinet and place a small portable heater near or in it to heat the pipes
* Wrap the problem pipe with electrical heat tape.
* Insulate the problem pipes with foam insulation wrap, especially those that run through unheated spaces.
* Temper the currently unheated crawlspace by placing a heater in the crawlspace. You just need to elevate the crawlspace temperature to modestly above freezing, about 40°F.