Pellet Stove Sauna Test - Stove Died when shed was just above 140 Def F, what happened?

[Don2222]

Hello

Saturday I successfully brought the shed up to 140 Deg F with very little humidity. Today I tried another test to go for a higher temp with more humidity. So I put the vaporizer on when I started the HR West Point stove up. Burning on Heat Level 3 after startup, I had a good flame and the temp started rising. Got up to a little over 140 and good humidity and then I checked inside again and NO Flame, stove was still on but auger not turning!
Stove has a 250 deg F high limit snap disc but screws that hold it in were cut off so not to hit the stove when screwed into the bracket! So looks like it was different from the original but does say L250 on it.

Anyways, It is cooling down now so I can see what happened! Any guesses?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

You exceeded the maximum convection air input temperature so the convection blower shut down, then the high limit went to work and killed the auger. You are in the process of burning out your convection blower.

ETA: Your stove isn't a sauna heater don't use it as one.

 

[AbetterChimneynm]

ETA: Your stove isn't a sauna heater don't use it as one.

This made me lol

 

[smoke show]

Any guesses?

Aliens?

 

[AbetterChimneynm]

Global Warming

 

[Don2222]

Hello

Well Quite by Accident, I think I may have solved another mystery about this Hudson River West Point stove!

I checked the Hi Limit snap disc and it popped at 140 Deg F instead of 250 as etched in the front side!
This would absolutely explain why customers have seen this stove shut down under normal use and the dealer cannot fix it!
This review states that if the Hi Limit Switch trips, The auger will not stop and it keeps feeding pellets!
http://www.homeclick.com/web/Review...oint-Freestanding-Pellet-Stove-HRSWP01FS.html

I naturally assumed if it was marked L250F it would pop at 250 Deg F not 140 Deg F. But maybe someone was asleep at the job and the snap discs were mixed up!

I bet Hudson River Stove Works and BAC Sales never figured out this!
http://www.hudsonriverstoves.com/

(broken link removed to http://www.bacsales.com/webpages/stoves-pellet.html)

So luckily I have a brand new SELCO 250 Deg Hi Limit Snap Disc I can put in there and we will see what happens! I may be a little more harsh in testing these pellet stoves but it does find problems that I would never have thought of! !

See pic of snap disc below!

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

The high limit does go off at 250, why it goes off is because the convection blower shuts down which prevents enough heat from being removed by the heat exchanger allowing the heat exchanger temperature to exceed 250. It is no mystery if you had been in the shed and paying attention the convection blower would have gone silent followed a short while later by the high limit going pop. Trust me, I've been there, heard (so to speak) and saw it first hand. Your pellet stove is not a sauna heater the convection blower is thermally protected read the makers plate on it and all should become crystal clear.

 

[Don2222]

The high limit does go off at 250, why it goes off is because the convection blower shuts down which prevents enough heat from being removed by the heat exchanger allowing the heat exchanger temperature to exceed 250. It is no mystery if you had been in the shed and paying attention the convection blower would have gone silent followed a short while later by the high limit going pop. Trust me, I've been there, heard (so to speak) and saw it first hand. Your pellet stove is not a sauna heater the convection blower is thermally protected read the makers plate on it and all should become crystal clear.

Hello Smokey
Do you know what at what temp the Thermal Circuit on the convection blower opens up at? The shed inside temp was at 140 Deg F, could the stove have reached 250 Deg F already? I am not saying you are wrong Smokey, so I will do another test with the New Selco 250 Deg F Hi Limit Snap Disc and be in the shed at the critical 140 plus temps. Thanks for your input and we will see.

 

[DexterDay]

I agree with Smokey. Although the stoves internal temp may have been at or near the 250°… The Convection blower motor can get to HOT and thermal off (shut down).

The stove also wont be pretty to long when subjected to those High temps and Super High Humidity. It's gonna rust in no time, in that atmosphere.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Hello Smokey
Do you know what at what temp the Thermal Circuit on the convection blower opens up at? The shed inside temp was at 140 Deg F, could the stove have reached 250 Deg F already? I am not saying you are wrong Smokey, so I will do another test with the New Selco 250 Deg F Hi Limit Snap Disc and be in the shed at the critical 140 plus temps. Thanks for your input and we will see.

Most convection blowers thermal off when they reach a intake air temperature of 40 which is 104.

 

[AbetterChimneynm]

I have never heard of anyone doing this.......I must be missing something??

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I have never heard of anyone doing this.......I must be missing something??

Some folks on here are a little shall I say weird, just stick around all will become clear.

 

[Don2222]

Hi Smokey

I did find something on a similar Fasco hot water heater exhaust Draft Inducer. It has an auto reset thermal protection circuit breaker set to approx 125 Deg F and if it opens, must be cooled down less than 125 Deg F for 15 min and it will reset automatically!

http://www.fixya.com/support/t10289650-reset_button

I am a little disappointed, I was hoping the stove and the room would go to 160 or 170 Deg F. After all it is a Heater! Wood stoves have similar blowers and they get pretty darn hot too!

I just sent Email to FASCO for more info on specs for this model blower.

Below is the Tag on the Hudson River Fasco Blower Motor. I do not see anything on any Hi Limit?
What do you mean look at the Tag on the Convection Blower?

Here is what the tag says
Fasco 702112268
Type U21B
Assembled in Mexico
115V 60Hz TP Class B
2.5A 3000RPM 1/15 HP Sealed Ball Brg

 

[smwilliamson]

The ambient room may have been 140, but the back of the firewall wall 250 or more

 

[Don2222]

The ambient room may have been 140, but the back of the firewall wall 250 or more

Yes, so if there is a 120 deg Thermal overload in the convection blower fan, then the 140 ambient room temp can trip that and the back of the firewall can also be more than 250 at almost the same time and trip the 250 Hi Limit snap disc.

I can see that happening but still need to verify that it actually did happen.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Most convection blowers have thermal protection it is frequently on the motor makers plate, it is normally 40. Draft inducers have to be able to withstand more in the way of heat and thus have a higher point before thermal protection kicks in. You should be able to verify that limit by looking up the blower in the manufacturers catalog. If the convection blower is not shutting down and the stove high limit trips then the convection fan is too small for the job or you are lighting off 'sote in the works, takes your pick. You have to be in the room in some manner and paying attention, because once the auger gets killed the stove will begin to cool down and once the thermal sees a low enough temperature it will restart the blower and cool things even faster.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

The ambient room may have been 140, but the back of the firewall wall 250 or more

And the temperature at the thermal sensor on the blower even lower as it is low down in the room.

 

[Don2222]

Most convection blowers have thermal protection it is frequently on the motor makers plate, it is normally 40. Draft inducers have to be able to withstand more in the way of heat and thus have a higher point before thermal protection kicks in. You should be able to verify that limit by looking up the blower in the manufacturers catalog. If the convection blower is not shutting down and the stove high limit trips then the convection fan is too small for the job or you are lighting off 'sote in the works, takes your pick. You have to be in the room in some manner and paying attention, because once the auger gets killed the stove will begin to cool down and once the thermal sees a low enough temperature it will restart the blower and cool things even faster.

Yes, I agree.

Well, I could not find the Thermal Protection spec so I emailed Fasco with all the numbers on the tag and here is what I got this morning.

Fasco makes the blower for Inca Metal which makes the HR West Point. So they should have the Thermal Limit Spec? ?

From: "Frances Lovelace" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 9:18:59 AM
Subject: Re: Need Help on your Fasco blower specs.

Good Morning,

I am very sorry but I cannot answer your questions.
You will need to contact the OEM customer that we
manufactured this blower for. They are the owners
of this blower.

Inca Metal
Richmond, BC, Canada
604/231-8923

Thank you,

Frances Lovelace
Fasco Dist Co
Eldon, mO

Inc Metal is in this directory so I filled out the contact us form and pasted in the email I got. See what happens now.

http://www.profilecanada.com/companydetail.cfm?company=2184960_Inca_Metal_Cutting_Ltd_Richmond_BC

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

And pardon my French so does FASCO they are protecting their arses by not divulging the specifications they built the blower to. In short you are getting the ole corporate line of bull.

 

[Don2222]

And pardon my French so does FASCO they are protecting their arses by not divulging the specifications they built the blower to. In short you are getting the ole corporate line of bull.

You have a good point. Please don't give them too much credit for knowing what they are doing!
Of course they have the specs they built the convection blower to. However, does the guy who sent me the email know?
No he does not! Does he know who does at Fasco? Maybe or Maybe not!

So does the Metal Fab place called Inca Metal know the specs? Possibly, If not I will go back to FASCO!

 

[AbetterChimneynm]

Like i said i have never seen anyone do this....With that being said i have worked on alot of pellet stoves not the stove you mentioned above but alot and the control board is not water proof alot of the wires do have exposed places where they connect to certain motors etc i do not think i would want to stick a stove where it will be exposed to any water for it to chance shorting something out and maybe causing a fire......But this is just my two cents\



Shawn

 

[Defiant]

Were you naked?

 

[AbetterChimneynm]

I was not nakid no

 

[Defiant]

I was not nakid no

Not you. Donny

 

[AbetterChimneynm]

I was going to say......I dont think people would want me fixing stoves nakid