Pellet Stove install questions

[SidecarFlip]

Been there and did that (smoke escaping from the appliance). least with pellets, the smoke smells like a BBQ, sort of. Corn smoldering, not so much....

I would always encourage anyone with a solid fuel appliance to have a back up power supply, in addition to a surge suppressor. Battery powered UPS (like a computer unit or a small backup genny that you can power a stove with. Must be a PSW genny or it will adversely impact the electronics however. Stoves won't tolerate wide fluctuations in THD or line voltage the IC's tend to get destroyed.

 

[mtnbiker727]

On room temp manual, your stove will throw a good amount of ambient heat, even when the room fan is not running. If you only use it on auto ignitor, the stove will not stay hot like a wood stove, it'll get warm and cold and warm and cold like a forced hot air furnace (which I hate).

If you have a two story house and wish (to try) to heat the whole house with just the pellet stove, you should really consider a P68... it's almost twice the BTU output of a P43, and only costs a little bit more. The P68 can run at a low BTU if the demand isn't there, but when the P43 is maxed out, you can't squeeze anymore heat out of it.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Personally speaking, I think we all should wait to see how much of an increase there is in pellet prices this fall. Good be very substantial.

 

[escyr]

Another question to be sure I'm interpreting the clearance dimensions correctly.

For the Harman Absolute 43 it states
"K. The clearance to a mechanical air supply inlet must be a minimum of 10 feet. (with outside air installed, 6 feet)"

1) Is this measured in any direction (i.e a radius) or only horizontally as shown in the manual's figure 4.11 (attached)?
2) Is it measured from the pellet stove exhaust vent termination, or any part of the vent pipe?

Eric

 

[johneh]

It is measured from the termination point in all directions

 

[SidecarFlip]

Stated that way because they don't want the negative pressure of the combustion air intake (OAK/FAK) to draw in any byproducts of combustion already exhausted. Has nothing to do with the interior dimensions or the relationship of the piping to the unit inside the dwelling.

 

[SidecarFlip]

On room temp manual, your stove will throw a good amount of ambient heat, even when the room fan is not running. If you only use it on auto ignitor, the stove will not stay hot like a wood stove, it'll get warm and cold and warm and cold like a forced hot air furnace (which I hate).

If you have a two story house and wish (to try) to heat the whole house with just the pellet stove, you should really consider a P68... it's almost twice the BTU output of a P43, and only costs a little bit more. The P68 can run at a low BTU if the demand isn't there, but when the P43 is maxed out, you can't squeeze anymore heat out of it.

The issue with any multi story dwelling is efficient circulation of the heat. Remember heat rises and cooler air sinks. If you depend on thermal heat rise and you have any unit on a lower floor, the upper floors will be much warmer than the lowers (provided you have a path for the warm air to travel. I have that exact issue myself. If I leave the door to the upstairs open, the upstairs will be 10-15 degrees warmer than the lower floor where my unit is.

I do get a charge out of you Harman owners all the time. There are alternatives that are just as good for a lot less cost. To me, a Harman isn't the holy grail of biomass appliances. It is, however, one of the most expensive. Cannot call them multifuel because they aren't. In my view, I don't want to limit myself to just one fuel type because when you do, you lock yourself into any fuel cost that particular producer wants to charge.

They especially don't work for me because of their limited fuel compatibility.

 

[escyr]

I've decided to go out and up to ease cleaning and have a clean look inside the house. Hopefully this is the last challenge.

The wall in our house is double insulated. 2x6 construction with fiberglass batt insulation and 4.5" of rigid foam on the outside of the sheathing. From the inside drywall to the outside of the rigid foam is 11".

ICC ExcelPellet has thimbles for this, but the issue is I need a 20" horizontal pipe and the only way to achieve this is by using a 6" slip pipe over the 16" pipe to extend to the 20" of horizontal that I need. A 24" pipe is too long and 16" too short. ICC thimbles are approved to have a joint inside. I am ok with this joint if there is a way to check for leaks at this in-the-thimble joint.

Thoughts?

Eric

 

[SidecarFlip]

I've decided to go out and up to ease cleaning and have a clean look inside the house. Hopefully this is the last challenge.

Smart move, your wife (and you) will appreciate it. Fly ash is nasty stuff, you want to keep as much outside as possible.

The wall in our house is double insulated. 2x6 construction with fiberglass batt insulation and 4.5" of rigid foam on the outside of the sheathing. From the inside drywall to the outside of the rigid foam is 11".

ICC ExcelPellet has thimbles for this, but the issue is I need a 20" horizontal pipe and the only way to achieve this is by using a 6" slip pipe over the 16" pipe to extend to the 20" of horizontal that I need. A 24" pipe is too long and 16" too short. ICC thimbles are approved to have a joint inside. I am ok with this joint if there is a way to check for leaks at this in-the-thimble joint.

Per chance, did you check on Venting Pipe.Com (I think it's (broken link removed)), that is where I get my vent pipe from, they have a huge selection of lengths from both Selkirk and Simpson and you want to be using one of the 2 and keep in mind that neither interchange with the other. Both have their own unique (and I presume patented interlocking).

If you cannot source a single pipe and must have a joint, I'd suggest sealing it with high temp rtv. Usually, they don't leak but it won't hurt. In fact I'm running a 2 piece pipe in my thimble but for a different reason. The wall I went through happens to be pegged together 150 year old timbers with lath and mud on the inside with expanded foam insulation so the wall thickness was almost 20" outside to inside but I took a standard Simpson expandable wall thimble and added a pop riveted on extension collar. I rarely disturb the through the thimble pipe anyway and I used Red RTV on the joint, just in case never been an issue.

My OAK/FAK was also interesting because of the wall thickness. I used a length of PVC water pipe to cover the distance and at least with my stove, the flex pipe inlet for the fresh air fitted over the plastic pipe and I secured it with a worm clamp. On the outside I used a Simpson fresh air cover with a bug screen.

Thoughts?

Eric

I bolded my thoughts...Good luck

 

[bogieb]

The issue with any multi story dwelling is efficient circulation of the heat. Remember heat rises and cooler air sinks. If you depend on thermal heat rise and you have any unit on a lower floor, the upper floors will be much warmer than the lowers (provided you have a path for the warm air to travel. I have that exact issue myself. If I leave the door to the upstairs open, the upstairs will be 10-15 degrees warmer than the lower floor where my unit is.

And then there is my place where I can get, and keep, the basement to 90 and the main floor will be 60's (near the stairs) and low 50's (in the bedrooms) . That is without any doors in the way. There is a reason that after my first heating season and trying multiple methods of getting the air currents to work, I got a 2nd stove; that reason certainly ain't because I have a huge place. I got sooo tired of people telling me that it doesn't make sense because heat rises. Yeah, I know, but that is how it is in my place.

 

[SidecarFlip]

And then there is my place where I can get, and keep, the basement to 90 and the main floor will be 60's (near the stairs) and low 50's (in the bedrooms) . That is without any doors in the way. There is a reason that after my first heating season and trying multiple methods of getting the air currents to work, I got a 2nd stove; that reason certainly ain't because I have a huge place. I got sooo tired of people telling me that it doesn't make sense because heat rises. Yeah, I know, but that is how it is in my place.

Interesting. 50's in the bedroom is ideal for us, we like sleeping cold. Makes for better cuddling. I'm always concerned about frozen pipes in the basement as the stove is upstairs so I keep the central furnace blower on intermittent run. 15 minutes every hour. So far, so good but one never knows and it raises the fuel consumption quite a bit.

Kicking around a second one in the shop this year. Maybe. Kind of spoiled with a warm slab.

 

[Pete Zahria]

I think we all should wait to see how much of an increase there is in pellet prices this fall.

Same could be said for oil/propane/K-1/NG......

Dan

 

[SidecarFlip]

Same could be said for oil/propane/K-1/NG......

Dan

You already know how that will play. 64 dollar question is how much. Have to be hauled from point a to point b and diesel is way up, least around here it is, along with gasoline and I'm not getting into why because you already know the answer to that as well. Was going to get a new buggy this year, a new full size Ford Bronco. That is out. I'll keep driving my 40mpg Focus, wife will drive her corroding mini van and her new Suburban can stay in the garage.

 

[Pete Zahria]

You already know how that will play. 64 dollar question is how much.

Yeah.
Played the same way..
Called "wait and see"...

Dan

 

[bogieb]

Interesting. 50's in the bedroom is ideal for us, we like sleeping cold. Makes for better cuddling. I'm always concerned about frozen pipes in the basement as the stove is upstairs so I keep the central furnace blower on intermittent run. 15 minutes every hour. So far, so good but one never knows and it raises the fuel consumption quite a bit.

Kicking around a second one in the shop this year. Maybe. Kind of spoiled with a warm slab.

I can't stand being cold when I sleep. Heck, just my nose getting cold will wake me up and keep me awake. I don't understand the studies that say people sleep in a cooler room. I'm the opposite and like to be warm at night. I'm single, so no cuddling going on.

 

[SidecarFlip]

I can't stand being cold when I sleep. Heck, just my nose getting cold will wake me up and keep me awake. I don't understand the studies that say people sleep in a cooler room. I'm the opposite and like to be warm at night. I'm single, so no cuddling going on.

Sometimes I wish I was single. Most times I don't. After 36 years of matrimonial bliss, cuddling is optional anyway. I cuddle my electric blanket actually. My wife is the opposite, she likes being toasty all the time.

Our pup used to sleep on the bed when he was alive. 130 pounds of fur. When he slept, the entire bed rocked and he always had gas too.

 

[Pete Zahria]

After 36 years of matrimonial bliss,

Been 50 years for me coming up soon.
Happiest 3 years of my life...

Dan

 

[mtnbiker727]

I do get a charge out of you Harman owners all the time. There are alternatives that are just as good for a lot less cost. To me, a Harman isn't the holy grail of biomass appliances. It is, however, one of the most expensive. Cannot call them multifuel because they aren't. In my view, I don't want to limit myself to just one fuel type because when you do, you lock yourself into any fuel cost that particular producer wants to charge.

They especially don't work for me because of their limited fuel compatibility.

I don't have a good way to obtain or store anything besides pellets, so I'm fine with the limitation. For my future permanent residence, I would like to have a "biomass" boiler to heat our house and/or a greenhouse, and keep the pellet stove in our living space for supplemental heat/atmosphere.

 

[mtnbiker727]

And then there is my place where I can get, and keep, the basement to 90 and the main floor will be 60's (near the stairs) and low 50's (in the bedrooms) . That is without any doors in the way. There is a reason that after my first heating season and trying multiple methods of getting the air currents to work, I got a 2nd stove; that reason certainly ain't because I have a huge place. I got sooo tired of people telling me that it doesn't make sense because heat rises. Yeah, I know, but that is how it is in my place.

Our stove is a basement install, which I don't like, because the basement is 80 degrees to make the first floor 70ish. I would rather have the stove in the living room in the center of the house, but the owner of the house concreted the hole in the chimney, and is not interested in cutting the drywall apart to try to find the chimney.

If your stove is where you want to be most of the time, you can control the heat much better and not use so many pellets to heat up basement that you don't use that much. There is a lot of heat lost in the cold floors and walls of your basement, even if it's a "finished" basement.

I also think "finished" basements are like a boat... just a hole that you throw money into. It costs a lot of money to heat them, dehumidify them, and no matter where you are, there's always a risk of water getting in and ruining everything.

 

[Pete Zahria]

Our stove is a basement install, which I don't like, because the basement is 80 degrees to make the first floor 70ish.

My stove is in the basement as well.
I like it there.
Takes up no space in the living area,
and is less dusty/less noisy..
However... I built a hood for my stove, and the heat that is blown out of the stove,
goes directly into the living area, via a floor vent..
The basement gets warm from the radiant heat off the sides,
(Usually around 65°)
but is never warmer than the upstairs..

Dan

 

[bogieb]

Our stove is a basement install, which I don't like, because the basement is 80 degrees to make the first floor 70ish. I would rather have the stove in the living room in the center of the house, but the owner of the house concreted the hole in the chimney, and is not interested in cutting the drywall apart to try to find the chimney.

If your stove is where you want to be most of the time, you can control the heat much better and not use so many pellets to heat up basement that you don't use that much. There is a lot of heat lost in the cold floors and walls of your basement, even if it's a "finished" basement.

I also think "finished" basements are like a boat... just a hole that you throw money into. It costs a lot of money to heat them, dehumidify them, and no matter where you are, there's always a risk of water getting in and ruining everything.

I like having the basement heated - the main level floors can get pretty cold in the winter without a true heat source in the basement. The bedroom floors, that are over the underhouse garage (unheated), are still pretty effin cold once winter sets in. Additionally, with FHW, I have all kinds of water pipes right next to the sill (and thru the garage). If I was running the boiler, that wouldn't be an issue, but not using the boiler those pipes would be in danger of freezing.

My original plan, when I went stove shopping, was to get two smaller stoves. However, I listened to the stove guy so got one big stove. Eh, it worked out in the end although that P61a down there is way overkill. OTOH, if the P43 is down, I don't have to spend the big $$$ running the boiler.

 

[escyr]

I've read some recommendations to have 1/4" per foot of rise on horizontal sections. What is the purpose of this? I'll be going ~20" horizontal.

 

[SidecarFlip]

To promote what little natural draft there is if you have a power failure.

 

[escyr]

Opinions on this horizontal termination

vs this adjustable jet termination?

 

[SidecarFlip]

First one, Second one will allow snow/moisture to enter. You don't want that. I don't get the decreasing diameter of the termination point anyway. Your draft fan will only output so many CFM's of exhaust.