PB-105 Second Thoughts and questions...

[Wayne64SS]

As for you guys that have these already... Is it a pain in the a$$ to keep filling the hopper... should I be looking at bulk storage? Doesn't Harman make a bulk feeder? I can't seem to find it listed on their website anywhere.

Thanks for the pricing... I am a little high, but given the sudden rush for them I kind of expect it. The guy doing the install is pretty cool, maybe he'll give me the ol "cash discount"

 

[AndrewChurchill]

In the summer I'm only loading the hopper once every other week. Right now I'm burning about 3/4 a bag a day to heat the house from 4:00 PM until 7:00 AM so I load the hopper up on Sunday and then top it off with 3 bags Thursday.

It only takes a couple of minutes to fill the hopper. I am thinking of getting my pellets in bulk next year instead of bags and if I do that I'll try making my own bulk feed system rather than buying Harman's system.

 

[Wayne64SS]

In the summer I'm only loading the hopper once every other week. Right now I'm burning about 3/4 a bag a day to heat the house from 4:00 PM until 7:00 AM so I load the hopper up on Sunday and then top it off with 3 bags Thursday.

It only takes a couple of minutes to fill the hopper. I am thinking of getting my pellets in bulk next year instead of bags and if I do that I'll try making my own bulk feed system rather than buying Harman's system.

yea i think a custom bulk feed system would be my best bet as well... just due to the layout of where this thing is going and how my basement is set up.

I'm bored so here are a few pics of my hot water heater install I did by myself.

Here is the old indirect tank. These are horribly inefficient right? God knows removing it sure got rid of the banging in the pipes. The way it was installed it was impossible to bleed.

 

[wil lanfear]

I first fired it the first week in March, at the present time I've used around 2.5 tons, using it everyday since I fired it for heat and DHW. My dealer told me prior to the purchase, 1 ton of pellets equal around 100 gal. of fuel oil

you had your heat on all summer??? uuugh i don't really have a place for 10-12 ton of pellets. If it ends up using that much someone on here will get a really nice deal on a used PB-105.


Is there anyone else on here that can provide input as to expected pellet usage?

Not exactly, the whole month of March it was on for heat and October the house has called for heat a few times. I have tried from day one to find a solution for the combustion blower to shut off when the boiler reaches the high operating temp setting. What happens with the combustion blower not shutting down is, the mass of water in the boiler that was just heated to the high temp setting is cooled down by the ambient air from the combustion blower to the low setting of the boiler, the boiler fires up again. I too tried using a timer to reduce the amount of pellets used but..... I chose to stop using the timer because of cold starts of the boiler. I'm now using a time delay off relay to maintain a minimum of 150 degree water in the boiler which seems to be doing what I want it to do, shuts down the combustion blower 40 minutes after the boiler reaches the high setting of the boiler. This delay insures that all the partial burned pellets in the burning pot have turned to ash.

When I purchased my boiler the end of Feb., the cost was $5149.00 with the tax. I installed it with materials that I have collected over the years with exception of the flu piping. I also purchased my pellets for $199.00 per ton. My thoughts at the time, still the same thoughts, fuel oil will average out this year around $4.00/ gal. I know, fuel is less than that right now but wait till after the election, I'm quite sure fuel oil will increase. The way I see it, even if pellets equaled the cost of fuel oil, I'm trying to do something to reduce the dependance on oil, IMHO, what everybody in this country should be trying to do.

 

[Wayne64SS]

I first fired it the first week in March, at the present time I've used around 2.5 tons, using it everyday since I fired it for heat and DHW. My dealer told me prior to the purchase, 1 ton of pellets equal around 100 gal. of fuel oil

you had your heat on all summer??? uuugh i don't really have a place for 10-12 ton of pellets. If it ends up using that much someone on here will get a really nice deal on a used PB-105.


Is there anyone else on here that can provide input as to expected pellet usage?

Not exactly, the whole month of March it was on for heat and October the house has called for heat a few times. I have tried from day one to find a solution for the combustion blower to shut off when the boiler reaches the high operating temp setting. What happens with the combustion blower not shutting down is, the mass of water in the boiler that was just heated to the high temp setting is cooled down by the ambient air from the combustion blower to the low setting of the boiler, the boiler fires up again. I too tried using a timer to reduce the amount of pellets used but..... I chose to stop using the timer because of cold starts of the boiler. I'm now using a time delay off relay to maintain a minimum of 150 degree water in the boiler which seems to be doing what I want it to do, shuts down the combustion blower 40 minutes after the boiler reaches the high setting of the boiler. This delay insures that all the partial burned pellets in the burning pot have turned to ash.

When I purchased my boiler the end of Feb., the cost was $5149.00 with the tax. I installed it with materials that I have collected over the years with exception of the flu piping. I also purchased my pellets for $199.00 per ton. My thoughts at the time, still the same thoughts, fuel oil will average out this year around $4.00/ gal. I know, fuel is less than that right now but wait till after the election, I'm quite sure fuel oil will increase. The way I see it, even if pellets equaled the cost of fuel oil, I'm trying to do something to reduce the dependance on oil, IMHO, what everybody in this country should be trying to do.

Yea that same reason had a lot to do with my decision as well. I don't want to feel victimized by a bunch of greedy unreasonable markups ever again. I'm trying to do what I can.

I don't really understand about the boiler not turning off the blower... I don't understand why it would cool off what it just heated... that doesn't make any damn sense. I was watching mine (oil furnace) the other day when I bled the air out and it seemed as if it fired, got to my min temp, ran the circulator, then and as long as i was above my min temp it would shut off. Why wouldn't the new unit function the same way?

 

[wil lanfear]

I don’t really understand about the boiler not turning off the blower… I don’t understand why it would cool off what it just heated… that doesn’t make any damn sense. I was watching mine (oil furnace) the other day when I bled the air out and it seemed as if it fired, got to my min temp, ran the circulator, then and as long as i was above my min temp it would shut off. Why wouldn’t the new unit function the same way?

The ESP in the PB 105 exhaust will not turn the combustion blower off until it senses 90 degrees, this is Harmans way of insuring that all the pellets have turned to ash, no hot coals left in the buning pot. The combustion blower is drawing ambient air, whatever that temp may be, across the mass of water in the boiler that was just heated up to the high temp setting, sending this out the stack,thus lowering the temp of the boiler water until it reaches the low setting, boiler fires and it all starts over again. This didn't make sense to me either, had my local dealer contact Harman with my concerns. They responded with the thought that it has to run to insure that the boiler doesn't create creosote. I say BS, I'm shutting it off now with a delay off relay which is powered by an aquastat. It can be done, they could do it with a design change in the controller but they choose not to because of a additional cost in designing a new control.

 

[Wayne64SS]

I don’t really understand about the boiler not turning off the blower… I don’t understand why it would cool off what it just heated… that doesn’t make any damn sense. I was watching mine (oil furnace) the other day when I bled the air out and it seemed as if it fired, got to my min temp, ran the circulator, then and as long as i was above my min temp it would shut off. Why wouldn’t the new unit function the same way?

The ESP in the PB 105 exhaust will not turn the combustion blower off until it senses 90 degrees, this is Harmans way of insuring that all the pellets have turned to ash, no hot coals left in the buning pot. The combustion blower is drawing ambient air, whatever that temp may be, across the mass of water in the boiler that was just heated up to the high temp setting, sending this out the stack,thus lowering the temp of the boiler water until it reaches the low setting, boiler fires and it all starts over again. This didn't make sense to me either, had my local dealer contact Harman with my concerns. They responded with the thought that it has to run to insure that the boiler doesn't create creosote. I say BS, I'm shutting it off now with a delay off relay which is powered by an aquastat. It can be done, they could do it with a design change in the controller but they choose not to because of a additional cost in designing a new control.

let me know how that works out for you and maybe some pics additional info... i may end up doing that same deal.

 

[Delta-T]

i for one, would not suggest making any mods to the combustion system. A) void warrantee B) void warrantee C) there is a reason the machine was built, tested and approved with configuration it come with. That ESP probe also insures that the machine doesn't overfire, or operate with poor combustion conditions. There is such a thing as being a penny smart and a dollar not so smart. Harman tends to build a good product that works efficiently and safely if you do those things you are supposed to do to maintain it. Why mess with a good thing to make it negligably better?

 

[AndrewChurchill]

Necessity is the mother of invention....

That's how good products are made better. I've made my own modifications that have increased the efficiency of my PB105 that I was surprised didn't come standard with the boiler.

 

[SteveT]

Leaving the current furnace for back-up?

That may be OK but make sure the boiler is cold start. Many (most?) boilers are not designed such that they are tolerant of being cold for a long period. They will, or at least may, leak. Maybe someone can weigh in with comments as to what to look for ... I know just enough to raise the caution flag.

 

[wil lanfear]

i for one, would not suggest making any mods to the combustion system. A) void warrantee B) void warrantee C) there is a reason the machine was built, tested and approved with configuration it come with. That ESP probe also insures that the machine doesn't overfire, or operate with poor combustion conditions. There is such a thing as being a penny smart and a dollar not so smart. Harman tends to build a good product that works efficiently and safely if you do those things you are supposed to do to maintain it. Why mess with a good thing to make it negligably better?

First, let me clarify the post about what I've done with my PB105 boiler. I DID NOT MODIFY THE COMBUSTION CONTROL of the boiler as you have implied. Adding a aquastat and a time off delay relay within the power supply to the boiler has nothing to do with the combustion system of the boiler. This does not void the warrantee.

There is such a thing as being a penny smart and a dollar not so smart. Harman tends to build a good product that works efficiently and safely if you do those things you are supposed to do to maintain it. Why mess with a good thing to make it negligably better?

Do you own a PB105, possibly employed by Harman, or a harman dealer???

 

[Wayne64SS]

Just called my dealer, they said my boiler is in and I'm on schedule for friday's installation. Pellets come next wednesday but they are going to bring 5 bags with the installer for testing etc. I'll post back and let everyone know how it goes and what I think of it as soon as i can... hopefully it won't be in the classifieds!

 

[sinnian]

Wayne your dealer is installing your Harmon?

I hope I am wrong, but I would guess that 'their' installation is just going to be the set up and flue, not the plumbing. In Maine you need a certified solid fuels master heating plumber (unless you do it yourself) to do the installs. But if your dealer is full service, Congratz!

 

[Wayne64SS]

well my dealer has a Heating plumber he works with on all these types of installs. So my dealer themselves isn't directly doing the installation. Sinnian what's the deal with your 40 gallon electric hot water heater for storage? can you explain to me how that works? I saved my old indirect DHW tank... is there any benefit to using it for storage?

 

[sinnian]

well my dealer has a Heating plumber he works with on all these types of installs. So my dealer themselves isn't directly doing the installation. Sinnian what's the deal with your 40 gallon electric hot water heater for storage? can you explain to me how that works? I saved my old indirect DHW tank... is there any benefit to using it for storage?

Basically my pellet boiler is heating the DHW before it reaches my tank during the heating season, so my electricity should be almost nil. During the shoulder seasons I will use the electric solely for DHW. I have had problems with my oil burner coil for DHW so I wanted to totally avoid my DHW coming from there. I would think that you could use your old indirect DHW as you were before.

 

[Wayne64SS]

oh i get it. i thought you were using it as heat storage.. i replaced my dhw coil with a tankless electric..