Osburn 2200 or 2400?

[Bozlee]

I do have one question. We purchased a chimney cleaning brush and used it after the 03-04 burning season. The brush is some sort of metal and do you think it is at all possible that using the brush caused some sort of damage inside the stove pipe.

Burned normally up to this point, hmmm. Has the flue interior been visually inspected for damage? What type of pipe is this? Double or single wall inside, then class A at the ceiling box? What parts of the flue were detached in order to clean it? How is the stove pipe attached to the class A at the ceiling box? Is it correctly locked in place?

Yup that's all been inspected and all it good and tight. It's a double lined stove pipe. When we cleaned the chimney we did so from the roof. When we the WET Cerified Tech out here the other day, he disconneted the stove pipe from the top of the stove and cleaned any gunk out from the top of the stove (hardly anything was there)

 

[Bozlee]

Couple of thoughts what do you have concering flooring Hardwood or ww carpet? You keep saying the home is a cottage, If you already explained it please humor me again.

If getting a black film on things I would think 30 years of burning two stoves I would have found it. I am alsoa builder and A building inspector not a home inspector.
I have never seen what you are describing. I think there is something in your interior enviorment that is acentuated by the wood stove usage. or the heating currents the wood stove produces
that causes some kind of reaction. Again I would do as suggested get a sample tested if you knew what it was then finding the source would be easier

We have ceramic tile and laminate through-out the house. We live in cottage country. Our house turned 3 years old March of this year and is built to all building codes. The thing that perplexes us so much is that nothing has changed in the house over the course of this three years, nothing added and nothing removed. The first year we burnt the stove, 2003-2004 fall and winter season, we burnt it almost day and night and not a single problem. When we started burning it again in October of 2004, within a month we discovered the mess.

I have cleaned every square inch of my house of this mess except for the closet in one of the bedrooms which houses many shelves of paperwork. Tomorrow I am going to empty the closet, wipe down the walls and take the wipe cloth to a lab in the city to have analized. Probably won't get an answer back for some time, but what the heck, I'm not burning the stove anyway at this point.

I do have one question. We purchased a chimney cleaning brush and used it after the 03-04 burning season. The brush is some sort of metal and do you think it is at all possible that using the brush caused some sort of damage inside the stove pipe.

Elkimmeg....here's a question for you (or anyone else who might have a thought). Since today was my day off I decided to spend it walking around my house playeing detective to see if I could find any obscure clues to this mystery. A lot of you have mentioned venting in my home. I rarely to never use my ventless rangehood, the furnace and HRV are working properly (don't use the HRV when burning the stove) and all the stacks on the roof are clear and free of obstruction. Then my brain kicked in and I remebered the dryer vent. We have a main floor laundry room and I would say my dryer is around 30 or so feet way from the wood stove The dryer vent comes from outside then foloows the floor joists, up through the wall behind my dryer. I pulled the dryer out tis morning and found that the flex hose from the dryer to the outside vent had come 3/4 off !! I realize that the dryer expelles exhaust but with the flex hose having come off, and the wall vent being pen to air, does anyone think this could come into play. The only way I guess I am going to find out is if I light the stove but I gotta tell you I'm real scared to do that cause I can't face the house covered in this grime again. Thoughts?

 

[BrotherBart]

Fillet of a fenny snake,
In the cauldron boil and bake;
Eye of newt, and toe of frog,
Wool of bat, and tongue of dog,
Adder’s fork, and blind-worm’s sting,
Lizard’s leg, and howlet’s wing,
For a charm of powerful trouble,
Like a hell-broth boil and bubble.

 

[Bozlee]

Fillet of a fenny snake,
In the cauldron boil and bake;
Eye of newt, and toe of frog,
Wool of bat, and tongue of dog,
Adder’s fork, and blind-worm’s sting,
Lizard’s leg, and howlet’s wing,
For a charm of powerful trouble,
Like a hell-broth boil and bubble.

OK I printed this little chant and posted it on the wood stove door....... Hey what the heck...tried everything else to date

 

[elkimmeg]

First of all flexible plawstic dryer vent has been illegal since 1988 I know it is still sold. Also code states the flexible dryer duct can only be 6' long and that it cannot be used in concealed locations. From your description there is also a total lenght restriction which yours exceeded. Nothing was correct about your dryer vent
Now what are the ramifications, mold and mildew which will turn black when gathered up while cleaning and mixed with degreesers like amonia.
For every loadf of towels, that dryer has to vaporize ans exhaust one gallon of water. Thats a lot of moisture added to a home enough to add to mold and mildew mold and mildew spores are present in the air. It need moisture to incubate windows hot on one side cold on the other, outside walls ,moldings electrical outlets on outside walls take a few cover off see if there iare signs of condensation on the wires or metal connectors. I will bet there is. your poly vapor barier is there to prevent moisture from the outside but also prevents it from e inrerior moisture from escaping. Hey If I right Can you ship me that no good stove. Its not the stove. but the stove could create the hot air currents to promote the condition. I going to look at the HUD info about mold and mildew tonight and add to this post

 

[iceman]

[quote author="iceman" date="1164480607"]this sounds scary... it almost sound like your house hase been taken over by mold..... but iside your frig and even more on colder walls?? without knowing the layout of your house it seems very odd that this substance could spread everywhere in the house ... you should have the your health dept come and take a look and find out what it is they will take a sample and bring back results.. if indeed it is soot... then it will be obvious that the draft in your house or in that area is at odds

 

[iceman]

this sounds scary... it almost sound like your house hase been taken over by mold..... but iside your frig and even more on colder walls?? without knowing the layout of your house it seems very odd that this substance could spread everywhere in the house ... you should have the your health dept come and take a look and find out what it is they will take a sample and bring back results.. if indeed it is soot... then it will be obvious that the draft in your house or in that area is at odds

didn't some ice dude mention mold before.... lol

 

[elkimmeg]

Iceman I am not taking credit for mold being thew problem I know others mentioned it in the past so did I.
when I saw the home layout dwafted by trees At first we were lead to bleive it was a wood stove issue My first post I dispelled that thought
But if you were first kndo to you We just had to keep looking and getting her to investigate it. Now a moisture source has been found
that moisture could be comming out every ceiling fixture and using the wood stove warm convection currents aND FINDING A PLACE TO CONDENSATE ON
sorry not shouting just hit the caps key. There has to be a logical solution

 

[iceman]

Iceman I am not taking credit for mold being thew problem I know others mentioned it in the past so did I.
when I saw the home layout dwafted by trees At first we were lead to bleive it was a wood stove issue My first post I dispelled that thought
But if you were first kndo to you We just had to keep looking and getting her to investigate it. Now a moisture source has been found
that moisture could be comming out every ceiling fixture and using the wood stove warm convection currents aND FINDING A PLACE TO CONDENSATE ON
sorry not shouting just hit the caps key. There has to be a logical solution

I am sorry I was not trying to make you think that what i was thinking.... i was glad to hear it because i was thinking it was a stupid suggestion but the more i kept reading the more i was thinking mold/ call the health dept
no offense taken... once again I am sorry that thats how i came across

 

[Roospike]

MOLD!? Yeah , i was thinking that too ..................

now i just need to go back and edit my first post . :lol:

Now mold makes sense , wood stove soot does not.

 

[elkimmeg]

Is it possible that Roo Iceman and I agree along with steve loddy lordy I beeeee

 

[begreen]

I love a good puzzle and this has been a great one. Good thoughts Elk! New tight house construction, crud forming on cold surfaces, leaky dryer vent - great clues. If it is mold or mildew, odds are bleach will dissolve it. Bozlee, dilute some bleach from the bottle at maybe about a tablespoon to 1/2 cup of water. Try some diluted bleach solution on an area of the black crud. Does it take it off? If you put some in a spray bottle and spray a black surface does it turn light brown then go away? Be careful not to overspray on nearby fabric or it will get bleached too.

 

[wingnut]

Boy oh Boy this just keeps getting better all the time! At this point you wish its your Osburn and not the mold thing. But hay send us the pictures of the sledg a thon on the stove this weekend. By the way type of insulation do have in the walls? Could this be giving off some sort of gas?? But inside your refrigerator too?? That is odd!

 

[Bozlee]

First of all flexible plawstic dryer vent has been illegal since 1988 I know it is still sold. Also code states the flexible dryer duct can only be 6' long and that it cannot be used in concealed locations. From your description there is also a total lenght restriction which yours exceeded. Nothing was correct about your dryer vent
Now what are the ramifications, mold and mildew which will turn black when gathered up while cleaning and mixed with degreesers like amonia.
For every loadf of towels, that dryer has to vaporize ans exhaust one gallon of water. Thats a lot of moisture added to a home enough to add to mold and mildew mold and mildew spores are present in the air. It need moisture to incubate windows hot on one side cold on the other, outside walls ,moldings electrical outlets on outside walls take a few cover off see if there iare signs of condensation on the wires or metal connectors. I will bet there is. your poly vapor barier is there to prevent moisture from the outside but also prevents it from e inrerior moisture from escaping. Hey If I right Can you ship me that no good stove. Its not the stove. but the stove could create the hot air currents to promote the condition. I going to look at the HUD info about mold and mildew tonight and add to this post

I may not have explained myself correctly. The main floor laundry room is about 30 or so feet away from the living room where the stove is. The dryer vent exhausts outside via a metal pipe that comes from outside ( through the foundation wall, into the basement between the floor joists, up and through the wall. From the dryer to this metal vent is a 6 -8 inch silver foil type flex hose. This flex hose is what came off at the dryer end. I definitly do understand the moisture content that emiits from the dryer vent. My HRV has a humidistat on it which is reading a humidity level of about 30 to 35 percent right now.

The stove was installed March of 2002. We burnt it like crazy from October 2003 to late March of 2004 and nothing nasty happened with that. It's far too hot here in the summer and from March to October of 2004 we did not burn the stove at all. Then we started burning it sometime in October of 2004 and sometime during the first half of December I discovered my house covered in this brown film. We immediatly stopped burning the stove. We cleaned the house from top to bottom and have not lit the stove since except for the other day when we has the two Inspectors out. Since we cleaned the house and stopped burning the stove, this mess has not re-appeared and at this time my house is clean and free of any soot, grease or what ever that stuff was. When the Inspectors lit the stove last week clean windows directly adjacent to the stove, within an hour showed signs of this crud building up again.

The dryer vent coming off and obviously being off for awhile of course was not a good thing but I do not have mold or mildew anywhere in the house. I did remove face plates from outside wall switches and plugs and there is no sign of moisture on any of them. There is no sign of moisture anywhere in the house. My thoughts on the dryer vent coming loose was lweaning more towards that possibly creating a negative pressure in the house.

This brown film that turns black only when touched by water, only appears when I am burning the stove and at no other time. That is what is so frustrating for me. We have this very nice looking stove sitting here staring at me, tons of expensive firewood waiting to be burnt and we have not felt comfortable burning this stove since the fall of 2004. I would like nothing more than to light that sucker and turn down my money eating electric furnace but I cannot risk that kind of mess in my house again.

I know most of you are certain that the stove is not the cause of the problem but it has to be. If it's not the problem, why then has this browm crud not re appeared since I stopped burning the stove ? Do any of you smoke or been somewhere where there is a lot of smoking? Better yet, do any of you know a heavy smoker who has that brown nicotine stain on their fingers? That is as close a description I can give you to what our stove emitted all over our house. (nobody smokes here).

We are now in the clutches of winter out here and I would love to light a nice warm fire in the stove but until I can solve this mystery there is no way I would dare. I hope you folks are not getting frustrated with me, though I would totally understand if you are because I'm well into being frustrated with this mystery. I solve mysteries for a living and this one has me beat. I do very much appreciate all your brainstorming in effort to help me solve it.

 

[begreen]

Not frustrated at all Bozlee. Like I said, I love a good puzzle. Here's another hypothesis: If it's the stove, then another guess would be stove paint. If the stove or stove pipe was repainted for some reason and "if" the paint was not high-temp, perhaps some interesting things could happen there. Just another guess. The lab results are really key here.

 

[Bozlee]

I love a good puzzle and this has been a great one. Good thoughts Elk! New tight house construction, crud forming on cold surfaces, leaky dryer vent - great clues. If it is mold or mildew, odds are bleach will dissolve it. Bozlee, dilute some bleach from the bottle at maybe about a tablespoon to 1/2 cup of water. Try some diluted bleach solution on an area of the black crud. Does it take it off? If you put some in a spray bottle and spray a black surface does it turn light brown then go away? Be careful not to overspray on nearby fabric or it will get bleached too.

BeGreen...when we cleaned this stuff nothing would budge it except water laced with a de-greaser product or on some spots straight de-greaser. Keep in mind that this stuff was not just on colder surfaces but every single thing in the house. It was just more predominate on colder surfaces. I should also add that this mess was confined to the main floor of the house. We have a full 4 foot high crawl space with a concrete floor under the house. Down there I store a billion things and not a single thing was touched by this crud. Why would this stuff get into every nook and cranny on the main floor but nothing down there? The heating and venting system is the same down there as the main floor?

 

[Bozlee]

Boy oh Boy this just keeps getting better all the time! At this point you wish its your Osburn and not the mold thing. But hay send us the pictures of the sledg a thon on the stove this weekend. By the way type of insulation do have in the walls? Could this be giving off some sort of gas?? But inside your refrigerator too?? That is odd!

Hey..I thought you where coming to the sledge a thon Well with all this help I'm getting from this forum I think maybe the stove might just have been granted a stay of excecution...for this weekend at least

No gases coming from the insulation...it's that itchy fiberglass stuff

 

[Bozlee]

Not frustrated at all Bozlee. Like I said, I love a good puzzle. Here's another hypothesis: If it's the stove, then another guess would be stove paint. If the stove or stove pipe was repainted for some reason and "if" the paint was not high-temp, perhaps some interesting things could happen there. Just another guess. The lab results are really key here.

No paint issues..nothing ever been painted. Every thing as it came from the retailer.

 

[begreen]

Though, that doesn't mean it wasn't re-painted by the retailer for some reason. Still guessing. That's why I advocated for the lab tests.

 

[iceman]

First of all flexible plawstic dryer vent has been illegal since 1988 I know it is still sold. Also code states the flexible dryer duct can only be 6' long and that it cannot be used in concealed locations. From your description there is also a total lenght restriction which yours exceeded. Nothing was correct about your dryer vent
Now what are the ramifications, mold and mildew which will turn black when gathered up while cleaning and mixed with degreesers like amonia.
For every loadf of towels, that dryer has to vaporize ans exhaust one gallon of water. Thats a lot of moisture added to a home enough to add to mold and mildew mold and mildew spores are present in the air. It need moisture to incubate windows hot on one side cold on the other, outside walls ,moldings electrical outlets on outside walls take a few cover off see if there iare signs of condensation on the wires or metal connectors. I will bet there is. your poly vapor barier is there to prevent moisture from the outside but also prevents it from e inrerior moisture from escaping. Hey If I right Can you ship me that no good stove. Its not the stove. but the stove could create the hot air currents to promote the condition. I going to look at the HUD info about mold and mildew tonight and add to this post

I may not have explained myself correctly. The main floor laundry room is about 30 or so feet away from the living room where the stove is. The dryer vent exhausts outside via a metal pipe that comes from outside ( through the foundation wall, into the basement between the floor joists, up and through the wall. From the dryer to this metal vent is a 6 -8 inch silver foil type flex hose. This flex hose is what came off at the dryer end. I definitly do understand the moisture content that emiits from the dryer vent. My HRV has a humidistat on it which is reading a humidity level of about 30 to 35 percent right now.

The stove was installed March of 2002. We burnt it like crazy from October 2003 to late March of 2004 and nothing nasty happened with that. It's far too hot here in the summer and from March to October of 2004 we did not burn the stove at all. Then we started burning it sometime in October of 2004 and sometime during the first half of December I discovered my house covered in this brown film. We immediatly stopped burning the stove. We cleaned the house from top to bottom and have not lit the stove since except for the other day when we has the two Inspectors out. Since we cleaned the house and stopped burning the stove, this mess has not re-appeared and at this time my house is clean and free of any soot, grease or what ever that stuff was. When the Inspectors lit the stove last week clean windows directly adjacent to the stove, within an hour showed signs of this crud building up again.

The dryer vent coming off and obviously being off for awhile of course was not a good thing but I do not have mold or mildew anywhere in the house. I did remove face plates from outside wall switches and plugs and there is no sign of moisture on any of them. There is no sign of moisture anywhere in the house. My thoughts on the dryer vent coming loose was lweaning more towards that possibly creating a negative pressure in the house.

This brown film that turns black only when touched by water, only appears when I am burning the stove and at no other time. That is what is so frustrating for me. We have this very nice looking stove sitting here staring at me, tons of expensive firewood waiting to be burnt and we have not felt comfortable burning this stove since the fall of 2004. I would like nothing more than to light that sucker and turn down my money eating electric furnace but I cannot risk that kind of mess in my house again.

I know most of you are certain that the stove is not the cause of the problem but it has to be. If it's not the problem, why then has this browm crud not re appeared since I stopped burning the stove ? Do any of you smoke or been somewhere where there is a lot of smoking? Better yet, do any of you know a heavy smoker who has that brown nicotine stain on their fingers? That is as close a description I can give you to what our stove emitted all over our house. (nobody smokes here).

We are now in the clutches of winter out here and I would love to light a nice warm fire in the stove but until I can solve this mystery there is no way I would dare. I hope you folks are not getting frustrated with me, though I would totally understand if you are because I'm well into being frustrated with this mystery. I solve mysteries for a living and this one has me beat. I do very much appreciate all your brainstorming in effort to help me solve it.

wow!! holy geez batman! I am stumped ... if you have taken such a long period off without using the stove.. what could it be? I am not sure if you tried this but hey take it apart and clean/ wipe look at everything
hang some think plastic (i know yoiu think this might be crazy) about 5 ft away and seal off part of the room (without suffocating ) and light a small fire then wipe the plastic as this will tell if its coming from the stove if its on the plastic facing the stove okay.. if its still on the windows then its not coming from the stove... i know it sounds crazy but you shoukd seriously take a sample and send it off somewhere to get tested or start trying some crazy things like posting this problem on the more on the net

 

[Bozlee]

Holy Jeez Batman back at ya....WHAT A GREAT IDEA ! I don't think it's crazy at all! At this time my house is spotless with no signs of this grime anywhere. I have been scared to death to light the stove cause I could not face having to go through such a monumental cleaning task should this crud re-appear if we lit the stove. It's no big deal pushing the furniture out of the way and sealing off an area around the stove. This way we isolate the area not risking the mess through-out the rest of the house and take a zillion other variables out of the equation. I'll leave the windows on either side of the stove inside the sealed off area and see what happens. Nope, not only do I not think your idea is crazy...I think it's the best idea I've heard so far...yipeee. If the inside of the sealed off area does get covered in this stuff...bata bing bata boom...we will know for sure if it is or is not the stove.

K gotta run to the hardware store and get me some painter's tape and a big old role of poly. If this works I owe you BIG TIME

 

[iceman]

Holy Jeez Batman back at ya....WHAT A GREAT IDEA ! I don't think it's crazy at all! At this time my house is spotless with no signs of this grime anywhere. I have been scared to death to light the stove cause I could not face having to go through such a monumental cleaning task should this crud re-appear if we lit the stove. It's no big deal pushing the furniture out of the way and sealing off an area around the stove. This way we isolate the area not risking the mess through-out the rest of the house and take a zillion other variables out of the equation. I'll leave the windows on either side of the stove inside the sealed off area and see what happens. Nope, not only do I not think your idea is crazy...I think it's the best idea I've heard so far...yipeee. If the inside of the sealed off area does get covered in this stuff...bata bing bata boom...we will know for sure if it is or is not the stove.

K gotta run to the hardware store and get me some painter's tape and a big old role of poly. If this works I owe you BIG TIME

whew! at first I thought you were picking on me... just make sure that the plastic is far enough away that it doesn't melt and also double check the area for any residue you might have missed .... take a plate or picture frame and place them in different locations so you will have something to compare when you wipe
and also check the areas on the other side for comparison... i would also suggest that when you check try to go out a door and the re-enter so you will not have to lift the plastic and possibly contaminate the other side with you walking back and forthbut before you start the burn walk around the plastic and see if there is any air getting through and mark it off so you will have a place to check as well
good luck!!

 

[Bozlee]

Holy Jeez Batman back at ya....WHAT A GREAT IDEA ! I don't think it's crazy at all! At this time my house is spotless with no signs of this grime anywhere. I have been scared to death to light the stove cause I could not face having to go through such a monumental cleaning task should this crud re-appear if we lit the stove. It's no big deal pushing the furniture out of the way and sealing off an area around the stove. This way we isolate the area not risking the mess through-out the rest of the house and take a zillion other variables out of the equation. I'll leave the windows on either side of the stove inside the sealed off area and see what happens. Nope, not only do I not think your idea is crazy...I think it's the best idea I've heard so far...yipeee. If the inside of the sealed off area does get covered in this stuff...bata bing bata boom...we will know for sure if it is or is not the stove.

K gotta run to the hardware store and get me some painter's tape and a big old role of poly. If this works I owe you BIG TIME

whew! at first I thought you were picking on me... just make sure that the plastic is far enough away that it doesn't melt and also double check the area for any residue you might have missed .... take a plate or picture frame and place them in different locations so you will have something to compare when you wipe
and also check the areas on the other side for comparison... i would also suggest that when you check try to go out a door and the re-enter so you will not have to lift the plastic and possibly contaminate the other side with you walking back and forthbut before you start the burn walk around the plastic and see if there is any air getting through and mark it off so you will have a place to check as well
good luck!!

5 5 2 2.......Gonna seal off half the living room around the stove from floor to ceiling. Gawd I hope nobody drops by for a visit...they'll think I'm daft

 

[BrotherBart]

The eye of newt didn't work eh? Good luck with the "clean room" testing. I don't remember if that stove has an outside air kit connected or not and there are way to many posts to wade back through. If it does not be sure to leave some opening for that pup to breath in there. And for you to also.

 

[iceman]

Holy Jeez Batman back at ya....WHAT A GREAT IDEA ! I don't think it's crazy at all! At this time my house is spotless with no signs of this grime anywhere. I have been scared to death to light the stove cause I could not face having to go through such a monumental cleaning task should this crud re-appear if we lit the stove. It's no big deal pushing the furniture out of the way and sealing off an area around the stove. This way we isolate the area not risking the mess through-out the rest of the house and take a zillion other variables out of the equation. I'll leave the windows on either side of the stove inside the sealed off area and see what happens. Nope, not only do I not think your idea is crazy...I think it's the best idea I've heard so far...yipeee. If the inside of the sealed off area does get covered in this stuff...bata bing bata boom...we will know for sure if it is or is not the stove.

K gotta run to the hardware store and get me some painter's tape and a big old role of poly. If this works I owe you BIG TIME

whew! at first I thought you were picking on me... just make sure that the plastic is far enough away that it doesn't melt and also double check the area for any residue you might have missed .... take a plate or picture frame and place them in different locations so you will have something to compare when you wipe
and also check the areas on the other side for comparison... i would also suggest that when you check try to go out a door and the re-enter so you will not have to lift the plastic and possibly contaminate the other side with you walking back and forthbut before you start the burn walk around the plastic and see if there is any air getting through and mark it off so you will have a place to check as well
good luck!!

5 5 2 2.......Gonna seal off half the living room around the stove from floor to ceiling. Gawd I hope nobody drops by for a visit...they'll think I'm daft

drum rollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll