OMG - THIS is why you follow code

[begreen]

This appears to be a manufacturer's tested clearances issue for the stove and code issue for the single-wall stove pipe.

 

[revdocjim]

nEWRfire, this is not your fault! Stoves mounted properly can be over-fired without threatening to burn the house down! That's what code is for. And it's not even clear that you over-fired it.

Agreed! This was not your fault, because when code for clearances and materials are followed, over firing doesn't lead to catastrophe. But as others have said, that start up load has the potential to create an over-firing situation. If it lit up without smaller kindling I have to surmise that the wood is really dry. As such, two to three splits should be sufficient for getting things going. Especially when using a stove for the first time it's good to play it safe and watch the temps closely. Experiment with the air controls and see how things go, always erring on the side of a small (safe) fire. Once you become familiar with the stove, the wood and how they interact you can begin to push it more to get the full heating potential from it.

 

[bholler]

It's almost as if each generation becomes a little dumber.

We see many fewer really scary new installs than we do old ones. In that respect atleast your thinking seems backwards.

 

[DUMF]

Wow Mr. New Fire, you need to read carefully the comments here !
Forget "code", that outlet alone ain't what is safe, even in N.J.
Clearances ? Well, there's such a thing as "common sense" which the nun said was not so common.
And, if anyone looks at the Oslo users on hearthnet, no one uses the front door. Reasons plainly written out.
And, for a virgin burner to stuff the stove like you proudly show, ain't too swift.
Being too mean ? You think ? You're fortunate that your place is not a 3 alarm.
What ever happened to "caution" ? Or, "I don't know what I'm doing" ? Or "ask" ?
This is a Darwin Award candidacy for wood burns.

 

[georgepds]

As a fire fighter I can so wow that's a close call, but now the scientist in me has a question.. Suppose the landlord moves the stove to the correct clearance, will it totally eliminate the hazard? I don't think so, my reasoning is that the wood has become compromised, especially the studs behind the sheet rock (which often gets over looked) I think now the wood that was effected has a low ignition point due to a change in its chemical make up. If anyone here has more knowledge about this (thinking of pyrolysis) please chime in either to correct me or better explain what I'm thinking.

Not necessarily

http://charredwood.com

"The essential idea is to burn the surface of wood to a varying degree of char. The charred surface can be left completely untouched, can be heavily or lightly brushed, and can be sealed with a clear coat or a stain. This charred surface is then rot, pest, weather, UV, and fire resistant,

 

[bholler]

Forget "code", that outlet alone ain't what is safe, even in N.J.
Clearances ? Well, there's such a thing as "common sense" which the nun said was not so common.

I am curious what is wrong with the outlet other than clearances? And he says he was told the stove was fine to use. Yes he should have checked the clearances but to many if they rent a place and the owner says the stove is ok to use the renter would assume that it was ok.

And, for a virgin burner to stuff the stove like you proudly show, ain't too swift.

Why not? That is how the stove is designed to be run right?

This is a Darwin Award candidacy for wood burns.

I am sorry but you are being overly harsh for someone who simply took the word of their landlord.

 

[nEWRfire]

Thanks for nearly all the responses.

Dumf I had tried a couple of smaller fires before this one with no issue.

I was being aggressive with that load but the Jotul handled it,

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

We see many fewer really scary new installs than we do old ones. In that respect atleast your thinking seems backwards.

I've seen hundreds of do-it-yourself woodstove installs here in the Pacific Northwest, many of which did not meet code, but I've never seen a stove mounted so close to combustibles.

I do agree that as time goes on, a higher percentage of installs meet code. And that's progress. But I'm just saying that you would be hard pressed to find that obvious of a mistake 30 or 40 years ago. At least in the PNW, maybe it's different in your neck of the woods. But my comment was not based just on that one obvious mistake:




And here's a doozer:

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[bholler]

But I'm just saying that you would be hard pressed to find that obvious of a mistake 30 or 40 years ago. At least in the PNW, maybe it's different in your neck of the woods. But my comment was not based just on that one obvious mistake:

We have seen many placed way to close in old and new installs but more on old installs. Many with charred wood and all.

As far as the videos go I am sure there was all kinds of stupid stuff done 40 or 50 years ago to just it wasn't on video then.

There always have been and always will be stupid people that does not change. We just get to see allot more of the stupid stuff that is done now because everyone has a phone they can take video and pics with.

 

[jetsam]

If anyone was wondering about the pyrolysis mentioned above, it doesn't even take a crazy setup like that stove install to cause a fire. Wood that has had long term exposure to even a 100° rise vs room temp can burn.

(broken link removed to https://www.doctorfire.com/low_temp_wood1.pdf)

 

[Squisher]

I've seen hundreds of do-it-yourself woodstove installs here in the Pacific Northwest, many of which did not meet code, but I've never seen a stove mounted so close to combustibles.

Woody are you in the industry? Sweep? Installer? Just curious.

 

[DUMF]

I am curious what is wrong with the outlet other than clearances? And he says he was told the stove was fine to use. Yes he should have checked the clearances but to many if they rent a place and the owner says the stove is ok to use the renter would assume that it was ok.
Why not? That is how the stove is designed to be run right?
I am sorry but you are being overly harsh for someone who simply took the word of their landlord.

I'll try to be polite here holler.
First: is that black color an old burn on the window trim ? Do I have special vision ?
Second: The hell with a landlord, there is a role for self resposibility. Stoves get hot, right ? Combustibles burn. "Clearances" to heat are what infants learn. Is the sheet rock heat rated ? What's under that tile ?
Harsh, huh ? When a home burns with fatalities because of unnecessary carelessness ( electrical, smoking, appliances, etc..) ....harsh ?
Third: look at that outlet. Would anyone with a modicum of common sense want an open outlet, mounted under a windowsill, just for convenience ?
Notice that closed outlet below ? Special vision.
"And "he was told..." I was also told that "the check is in the mail" and "I will love you in the morning.".
And please, don't get us started on the ASS U ME thing again.
Common sense holler, common sense.

Finally, none of the Oslo owners here use the front door. It's been posted many many times. It is not how the stove is meant to be used. It is one of the few design errors from Jotul.
In sum, this is great example how not to use a wood stove.

 

[bholler]

First: is that black color an old burn on the window trim ? Do I have special vision ?

What do you mean is it an old burn? No it was caused by the stove being to close obviously.

Second: The hell with a landlord, there is a role for self resposibility. Stoves get hot, right ? Combustibles burn. "Clearances" to heat are what infants learn. Is the sheet rock heat rated ? What's under that tile ?

Well many people don't know what clearances are required. and when the person who owns the house tells them it is ok to use most people would take their word for it. Yes people should know better but many dont.

Harsh, huh ? When a home burns with fatalities because of unnecessary carelessness ( electrical, smoking, appliances, etc..) ....harsh ?

Listen the guy already knows how wrong the setup is now you dont need to lecture him about it. If he came here asking for advice on what went wrong that would be a different story but he came to show what happens with a bad install. So yes you were overly harsh I deal with people all the time with bad installs and if I went in saying they deserved a darwin award they would throw me out of the house and ignore my advice which would not help anyone.

Third: look at that outlet. Would anyone with a modicum of common sense want an open outlet, mounted under a windowsill, just for convenience ?
Notice that closed outlet below ? Special vision.

Yes and what is wrong with that I can clearly see that they moved the outlet up that does not mean there is anything wrong with it. So what is so horrible about it?

"And "he was told..." I was also told that "the check is in the mail" and "I will love you in the morning.".
And please, don't get us started on the ASS U ME thing again.

I am not assuming anything I am going by what he said. If that is a lie so be it but I have no reason to assume it is why do you?

Common sense holler, common sense.

Yes to those of us who know stoves well the fact that that single wall pipe was nowhere near the required 18" is absolutely common sense. But to most people they see a nice looking install that they are told by the landlord is fine so they have no reason to question it. It is not common sense to those who don't have the experiences we do and there is no need to be insulting to those who simply don't know.

Finally, none of the Oslo owners here use the front door. It's been posted many many times. It is not how the stove is meant to be used. It is one of the few design errors from Jotul.

I have atleast 2 customers who use their front doors happily one even had us remove the handle on the side door.


Yes obviously the stove should not have been used as installed but there is no reason to be rude and insulting to someone who was kind enough to come here and show pics of what happens when you use a bad install. And he also clearly said it was from the start. Try to be nice acting they way you are doesnt help anyone and just makes you look arrogant.

 

[Ctwoodtick]

Wow Mr. New Fire, you need to read carefully the comments here !
Forget "code", that outlet alone ain't what is safe, even in N.J.
Clearances ? Well, there's such a thing as "common sense" which the nun said was not so common.
And, if anyone looks at the Oslo users on hearthnet, no one uses the front door. Reasons plainly written out.
And, for a virgin burner to stuff the stove like you proudly show, ain't too swift.
Being too mean ? You think ? You're fortunate that your place is not a 3 alarm.
What ever happened to "caution" ? Or, "I don't know what I'm doing" ? Or "ask" ?
This is a Darwin Award candidacy for wood burns.

No place for this sort of attitude here. Take this somewhere else.

 

[bfitz3]

What do you mean is it an old burn? No it was caused by the stove being to close obviously.


Well many people don't know what clearances are required. and when the person who owns the house tells them it is ok to use most people would take their word for it. Yes people should know better but many dont.



Listen the guy already knows how wrong the setup is now you dont need to lecture him about it. If he came here asking for advice on what went wrong that would be a different story but he came to show what happens with a bad install. So yes you were overly harsh I deal with people all the time with bad installs and if I went in saying they deserved a darwin award they would throw me out of the house and ignore my advice which would not help anyone.


Yes and what is wrong with that I can clearly see that they moved the outlet up that does not mean there is anything wrong with it. So what is so horrible about it?


I am not assuming anything I am going by what he said. If that is a lie so be it but I have no reason to assume it is why do you?


Yes to those of us who know stoves well the fact that that single wall pipe was nowhere near the required 18" is absolutely common sense. But to most people they see a nice looking install that they are told by the landlord is fine so they have no reason to question it. It is not common sense to those who don't have the experiences we do and there is no need to be insulting to those who simply don't know.


I have atleast 2 customers who use their front doors happily one even had us remove the handle on the side door.


Yes obviously the stove should not have been used as installed but there is no reason to be rude and insulting to someone who was kind enough to come here and show pics of what happens when you use a bad install. And he also clearly said it was from the start. Try to be nice acting they way you are doesnt help anyone and just makes you look arrogant.

bholler... I agree with all you said, but feel you left off something very important. Please, allow me? "Mic drop!"

 

[Jazzberry]

If you look at the 2nd photo it looks like the stovepipe is a foot out of plumb which should be an enormous red flag to see whats wrong. Either the stove got shoved over or the installer should be neutered. I kinda understand where dumf is coming from.

 

[WoodyIsGoody]

Woody are you in the industry? Sweep? Installer? Just curious.

Nope. Never for others.

But my dog does look like a chimney sweep, no?

 

[DUMF]

OK, OK. I give up: should have been nicer. Apologies to the sensitive, but this is too critical for extreme nicities.
BUTT: where is the obligation of a product owner for using it safely ? One gets in a car driving drunk, or encourages it ?
BUTT: this is not a kind of coming in last award thing. People, kids are killed by this kind of ignorance.
The OP did NOT point out any errors in judgement. It was "hey, look at this, isn't it great ? "
Do all of us and you experts, experienced in all kinds of proper wood stove use have any obligation to say : " look, this is what not to do" ?
Now for some final words of facts without emotions or flames:
No one noticed the blackened wood trim.
No comments about the moving of that electrical outlet to an open install ( stupid and illegal and unsafe ).
Nothing about that outlet inches from the stove ( wire insulation is not heat proof...it melts. Ask your local fireman or insurance agent. )
Oslo operation--never heard or read about using the front door consistently or removing the side door handle ! Why ! Is this fake news here ?
Yes, you all got the pipe....
Whatever happened to common sense. You really really need a manual for a stove to understand that heat can burn combustibles if too close ?
So let's use this as a lesson for what not to do. Done.

 

[mitchell721]

OK, OK. I give up: should have been nicer. Apologies to the sensitive, but this is too critical for extreme nicities.
BUTT: where is the obligation of a product owner for using it safely ? One gets in a car driving drunk, or encourages it ?
BUTT: this is not a kind of coming in last award thing. People, kids are killed by this kind of ignorance.
The OP did NOT point out any errors in judgement. It was "hey, look at this, isn't it great ? "
Do all of us and you experts, experienced in all kinds of proper wood stove use have any obligation to say : " look, this is what not to do" ?
Now for some final words of facts without emotions or flames:
No one noticed the blackened wood trim.
No comments about the moving of that electrical outlet to an open install ( stupid and illegal and unsafe ).
Nothing about that outlet inches from the stove ( wire insulation is not heat proof...it melts. Ask your local fireman or insurance agent. )
Oslo operation--never heard or read about using the front door consistently or removing the side door handle ! Why ! Is this fake news here ?
Yes, you all got the pipe....
Whatever happened to common sense. You really really need a manual for a stove to understand that heat can burn combustibles if too close ?
So let's use this as a lesson for what not to do. Done.

It's not about getting in a car driving drunk. Not apples to apples. It's more of an appearance thing. If it was old and shady looking install he may have questioned it. Kind of like if you wanted to go to store and I said hey take my new truck I guarantee you wouldn't pull off the wheels and check the brake pads or measure tread depth. No because it's new now if I said the same about a rusted out 20 yr old clunker you may look it over a little more closely. And car accidents kill more ppl than wood stoves by far. Did he wrongly assume it was good yes. Did he learn a valuable lesson absolutely. But we assume ppl do things correctly everyday. Most of the time it doesn't even cross ones mind

 

[jatoxico]

The way I see it nEWRfire posted this to show a real world example of the danger of an incorrect install which was demonstrated dramatically.

Promoting safety is one of the things that Hearth does and does well and anyone who sees that post who might have been thinking of cutting a few corners would probably think again.

nEWRfire posted this knowing he probably was risking embarrassment but did it anyway so folks could see what can happen.

I appreciate that and certainly don't feel a need to call him out or call names.

 

[jetsam]

The OP did NOT point out any errors in judgement. It was "hey, look at this, isn't it great ? "

Thread title: "OMG - THIS is why you follow code"

I got the impression that the OP felt there had been an error in judgement from that.

i was playing with my daughter in the same room!! What a wake up call before I install mine

...And that he was not super happy about the situation.

 

[kennyp2339]

OK, OK. I give up: should have been nicer. Apologies to the sensitive, but this is too critical for extreme nicities

In my 17 years as a volunteer fire fighter, I've been to many house fires, averages out to 10-15 a year, there have been a handful I can say that were directly related to woodstoves / fireplace clearance.
I've also been on a job were we had to recover to small kids that did not make from a fire, so I get your emotional response, but coming in like a bull in a china shop doesn't help, it actually deters, or turns off the OP or others when you comment, then when you have something very important to say, your messages are less likely to be read, just take that into consideration next time.

 

[CentralVAWoodHeat]

I'm going to back up bholler here too and say I have a friend with an Oslo who loads it exclusively front the front with no issues. I've heard a lot of folks complain about ash coming out of the front of various Jotul Stoves when loading. However, I've noticed with my own that this is only a problem if you have allowed the ash to build up too high or if you don't let the stove equalize when you first open the door to load.

 

[begreen]

We have seen some Oslo owners front load exclusively here too. Most of the ash complaints come from folks that load E/W using the side door. In a corner installation that is not an option, you need to use the front door. An outlet on the wall is not a problem as long as clearances are honored. We have an outlet that is almost identical to the OP's installation. There are no issues at all with the much cooler sides of the T6, especially with clearance minimums generously exceeded. This is the same location where we had the Castine.

 

[CenterTree]

Staying in temp Housing. Chose in part because of woodstove which I asked about and made sure I could use. Filled it for first time today... Thank god I was sat in same room and noticed the smoke!!

View attachment 194406

At what point did you decide to remove the box and plant from the window stool?