Old house and radiant heat.

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Trevor. Thanks for the comments. I agree cinder block basements are a whole other issue. They are very vulnerable to frost movement.
We have done a lot of old rock mortar basements on the inside with spray foam. Since they are many times, just piled up rock, and are full of holes for rodents as well as bugs, spray foam seals them very well. It is also an excellent adhesive. It can take the place of re-mortaring on an old deteriorating wall.
Everything I said about soils, of course, still stands, but if the soils are not a nightmare this works.

That being said, where I live is mostly clay and it still works. I am envious of people with sandy soils.
 
Thanks for the reality check on the radiant heat output HM, that will give me a bit better idea... The other option of course is that since the living room (which is the only "problem" room for heating, BTU requirement wise) has the woodstove in it already, and that won't be taken out, is to go for the 25-30 BTU/ hr / sq ft range, and figure on using the woodstove on those days when the radiant isn't quite enough...

The basement construction discussion is also interesting - the basement in our circa 1980 built house is poured concrete, presumably w/ rebar, I think 10-12" thick. It sticks up about 4' above grade, and 4' below grade, with the local water table not much below that during at least some parts of the year. Currently most of it is finished w/ 2x4 studs, fiberglass bats and individual board panelling. The floor is a concrete slab w/ carpetting glued down on top of it. I like the look of the board paneling, but the insulation doesn't seem to do much, as the basement stays cool to cold year round, and by the Slantfin heat loss program seems to be the biggest single heat loss in the house... When the GF bought the house she had a radon test done, and got mixed results - essentially they said it was probably higher than would be OK for someone living in the basement, but not a problem for using the space otherwise. We have a sump pit, and the pump runs heavily during the spring thaw season, and sometimes after extended rains, otherwise not. No direct signs of moisture otherwise, but the dehumidifier we keep down there runs quite a bit.

I would like to pull down and salvage the panelling, redo the walls and floor w/ better insulation, and put the panelling back up. Presumably it would be nice to also do something that would reduce the radon, and avoid any moisture related issues.

From what I've seen mentioned, it sounds like frost in the basement walls is not a big concern? I haven't seen any real concensus on how best to approach redoing the basement insulation. Digging down to insulate the exterior seems problematic, as does covering the outside completely due to the potential insect problems.

As best I can get from the Building Science website, the best approach to dealing with insulating on the interior is to cover up to about grade level with a vapor permeable foam, and above grade level with a vapor proof foam so that the concrete could dry to the inside below grade, and to the outside above it. The floor they said should be covered w/ a layer of "Enkadrain" (presumably tieing into the sump pit in some way) and then a vapor barrier and floor system - I'm thinking of one of the "foam mushroom" type panels (Creteheat or one of the similar items) with radiant tubing in it, and concrete, w/ tile or laminate on top - does this make sense?

Gooserider
 
Well i have come to the conclusion that remodeling these old houses sucks. With all the new technology there is an endless amount of ideas that are constantly running through my head. Since i have the ceilings removed i am considering installing some pex in the ceiling for the second floor. I was going to spray 2" closed cell to the underside of the second floor to tighten up the floor boards and filling the rest with open cell for sound. When me and my GF bought the house it had a VC wood stove in the kitchen, dining, common room. Yes it worked great for heating this area BUT was not placed well with the layout of the house. You were always having to walk around it and the kids were always running into it, so out to the garage it went. I had the idea of the radiators and will have to check into some that have been pressure checked. Basement was only sprayfoamed to a foot below grade so i,m good to go there.
 
coolidge said:
Well i have come to the conclusion that remodeling these old houses sucks.

It can definitely seem that way especially when you work on one house for years while you are also working full time. However, if done right, the capital gains are nice and it seems all of the choice lots closer to where I want to be were built on a long time ago. I put a high value on a short commute and a house built for the way we live. That said, this is my third gut/rebuild while living in it and I won't do it again.


HM, are the wall panels going to be effective across a 22' span with 10' ceilings or am I going to need baseboards under the glass anyway? The wall of glass faces SW with the solid wall facing NE with as few openings in it as possible. The windows sit 18" above the floor. I assume that is not enough area to make a difference?
 
Half of my house uses staple up radiant, I love it. I did not use any aluminum transfer plates, but I did staple up a foil-bubble-foil layer about 2" down.

Now I have started on the other part of the house(I had to take out the drywall and fiberglass insulation) and I am considering using transfer plates, except I am conserned they will be noisey unless I have the sytem always running and have the water temp change instead of on/off.

There used to be picture around here of a way to bend some flashing and make your own transfer plates. Can't find it. Also, I already have a statndard manual mixing valve, but I am not sure what to look for or purchase if I want an automatic temp chang if I want it (outdoor reset?)

Can I get some help?
 
I have aluminum transfer plates throughout the entire system, NO NOISE! I think the reason is because I used the annealed plates supplied by Radiant Floor (broken link removed to http://www.radiantcompany.com/details/joists.shtml) If you compare these plated to your standard aluminum flashing, the flashing feels like spring steel. I don't think the fact that they're soft affects the heat transfer.
They were easy to bend. Just took a piece of OSB, 16" long (length of plates) and screwed a couple pieces of 2x4 to it spaced the diameter of the tubing plus twice the thickness of the aluminum. Then screwed a piece of the pex to another 2x4, placed the plate on the spaced 2x4's, placed the captured pex and 2x4 over the plate and aligned with the groove and whacked it with a heavy hammer. I don't think this will work with flashing because of the temper.
 
I have staple-up in a similer house, log foor joists ranging from 2-4' on center. I have 7/8" (warm toes) tubing in one side and 3/4 (pex supply)in the other. I filled every accesible area and still could not get the recommended amount into it. I run it at 130 and it is ussually ok. Still working out bugs so i have no other info. I have forced hot air and would stove if I need instant heat.
 
Thanks fellas. I'll have to price the transfer plates. I already have a few rolls of flashing though on hand and I was hoping to save some cash, but I also don't want to look back.
 
I used flashing on part of my installaition and i would not do it again. Flasfing is stiff and does not conform well to pex it is hard to work with anddoes not tranfer heat as well. I have also used the plates from warm toes- radiant tech, these are soft and very easy to use. they are around .95 each and I think, worth it.
 
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