Old Defiant!

[fbelec]

BTW, you do not need to disassemble the stove to clean between the fireback and rear casting. You can do this through the stove pipe opening.[/quote]

you can reach the primary air section from the smoke pipe hole?

 

[fbelec]

duct tape the clean out. a plug is not expensive buy one to try running with the other stove plugged.
at the end of every season i burn one of those csl logs.(chimney sweeping log) and let it sit for at least a month if not until the next burning season begins then clean the chimney. for me it works well turns the creosote in the chimney to flaky stuff and makes the sweeping a ton easier. on my basement stove it make what creosote i have there like black flour and it comes off easy. but beware of this subject because there are alot of people here that will tell you different. to each his own. it works for me. we'll end that here.
i brought up the csl log for a different reason. when i do the csl burn your suppose to burn it by itself. when i burn it the stove only run at 250 to 325 on the plate. so my point is try some real wood in there and it might be better.

I don't have any seasoned wood around unfortunately and no good place to stack cordwood on my property, so the woodbrickfuel will have to do... I've already read some different accounts on this site from folks using stuff like it (i.e. biobricks) so it sounds like there may be a little trial & error and technique involved. I'll figure it out.

I'll try some foil tape on the cleanout. That should be a good solution. In the meantime I bought new gaskets for the defiant this morning and the guy there at ACE hardware gave me a reference for some company that puts together rebuild kits for VC stoves (Target Wholesale - 1-800-648-5864) so I'm gonna give them a call and see if they have the mesh for that secondary air passage or a whole rebuild kit for that matter.

let me know how you make out getting the mesh for the secondary passage. i need to rebuild mine.

thanks
frank

 

[spirilis]

Quick question about mortar/cement. I noticed the chimney sweep folks used fireplace mortar to seal off my stovepipe to the thimble and sealed off a leak in my angle-connector, and after firing it once last weekend, I just noticed that there's a very very thin gap between the fireplace mortar and the pipe; like the pipe expanded, pushed the mortar out a bit, then contracted and left a gap. Should they have used something different or is that somehow normal?

 

[fbelec]

your mortar might not have been dry enough. i usually let mine dry 1 day at least then do a small fire.
well after this thread and others, i decided to pull my defiant apart for rebuilding. the last time i did this the seams on the cast iron body were tight and i didn't disturb them taking off the top. actually the top came off with just a small pull.
this time i had to use a block of wood and a hammer. after that i noticed that i disturbed the sides. so now it is a ground up restoration. when i took a look at the hair line crack that was on the fireback it was shaped like a (y). light from a flash light went thru with ease. not like last year just a 3 inch long slight crack that light would not go thru. so now the fireback has to be repaired and all cemented joints and.......... the secondary air tunnel we were talking about on another thread was bad. the middle 10 inches was missing. the screen was all over the place in the middle of the tunnel.
i had no idea that the stove would break down that easy. i now know when it's time to get rid of the stove that it comes apart in pieces and can be brought out of the house by one person.
spirilis do you find out anything on the screen for the secondary tunnel?

 

[fbelec]

just found the screen for 6 dollars and change.

 

[spirilis]

just found the screen for 6 dollars and change.

where'd you find it? currently thinking of trying mine out without a rebuild, just vacuumed the air ports... waiting for it to get cold enough outside to warrant firing her up :D
also about how heavy are the cast iron pieces of the stove? especially the top piece... kind've curious if I should have anyone around if I attempt to rebuild mine..

 

[fbelec]

just found the screen for 6 dollars and change.

where'd you find it? currently thinking of trying mine out without a rebuild, just vacuumed the air ports... waiting for it to get cold enough outside to warrant firing her up :D
also about how heavy are the cast iron pieces of the stove? especially the top piece... kind've curious if I should have anyone around if I attempt to rebuild mine..

woodman's parts plus.
my fire back is in tough shape. with me moving the top and everything else yesterday the hairline crack got bigger is almost in two pieces. 4 more inches and it is. the one piece like mine is no longer available so i'll have to buy the two piece if my friend can't help with it.

 

[spirilis]

just found the screen for 6 dollars and change.

where'd you find it? currently thinking of trying mine out without a rebuild, just vacuumed the air ports... waiting for it to get cold enough outside to warrant firing her up :D
also about how heavy are the cast iron pieces of the stove? especially the top piece... kind've curious if I should have anyone around if I attempt to rebuild mine..

woodman's parts plus.
my fire back is in tough shape. with me moving the top and everything else yesterday the hairline crack got bigger is almost in two pieces. 4 more inches and it is. the one piece like mine is no longer available so i'll have to buy the two piece if my friend can't help with it.

whoa, ok, I didn't see it when I looked at the "Defiant II" parts list, it shows up for the "Defiant I" (and IA, etc) list. that's the key. I'll send them a mail about that.

thanks!

edit: for anyone curious as to the direct link to order the part, here it is:
(broken link removed)

it's a "special order" part, hopefully they still have them.

 

[fbelec]

almost forgot to answer you about the top. it's heavy but i did it myself. it's only half the weight of a hearthstone 2 top with the stones still attached. almost slipped a 4th disc on that one.

 

[Valhalla]

Early Defiant... great!

Heated my first house for years with it. Used an 8" SS flue liner in the chimney, cleaned it 2X a winter. A real work horse!

Still burning well, now with the new owner.

 

[spirilis]

It got down to the lower 50's last night, I got home late around 10PM, decided what the hey...

Note: Jotul has a Condar flue probe thermometer about 18" away from the stove, Defiant has a Rutland magnetic thermometer on the griddle and a Condar flue probe thermometer about 5" away from the stove (there isn't enough stovepipe to get that thing 18" away; the connection from stove to thimble is about 10" long horizontal)

Fired up the Jotul with about 6 woodbrickfuels, got it going with flue temps up to 800F briefly from the firestarters, then it died down a bit to ~350F and the woodbrickfuel started to burn on its own. Meanwhile I went upstairs and stacked 8 of the woodbrickfuel blocks, 2 on top of one another in 4 rows with firestarter sticks in between each stack. That lit up pretty well (air control wide open, doors closed), and by 11:30PM or so the Defiant was up to 350F griddle top (flue temp maybe around 600-700F?). I tossed in 2 more bricks and closed the door, then went off to bed. Woke up around 2AM, checked the stoves; the Jotul was cruising at ~800F flue temp, the Defiant was around 600F griddle-top temp with 1200F flue temp.

Note when I got home, the thermostat read 72F, which normally would be fine for me but tonight I wanted to have some fun By 2AM it was reading 89F. Hot damn!

I closed the baffle on the Defiant to give the secondary air system a try; noticed within ~15min the griddle top temps dropped about ~25F and the flue temp dropped about ~50F. But I was starting to smell a bit of smoke, and could sense some airflow up above the main doors; I think I should replace the door gaskets first before trying the secondary air system since I know it fills up the firebox with smoke. Opened the baffle and let it run with the air control damped down just a tad, and by 6AM when I got up, the Defiant was running 250F griddle-top with ~400F flue temp (mostly glowing embers and ash), Jotul was down around 300F flue temp (barely any glowing embers, mostly ash). By the time I left for work (~8AM) the Defiant was around 175F griddle, 250F flue, Jotul under 200F flue temp. Oh and the house thermostat was reading 86F. Good show

Looks like the key with the Defiant was to load enough wood. 10 bricks is good enough for a hot overnight burn I think. May last longer if I seal the door gaskets and try the secondary air system. I didn't smell much if any smoke when running the Defiant in open-baffle mode, and the Jotul wasn't generating any smoke smell since I applied liberal amounts of furnace cement on its stovepipe connections. Truthfully I don't know if firing the Jotul is worth the fuel, at least it was providing hot air to the flue but it didn't really heat the house much. Probably heated the attic more than anything; most of its hot air migrates to the top of the basement stairwell, which sits high up level with the main floor's ceiling, so most of that hot air collects up top and heats the small bit of ceiling there. I had the basement door closed with my box fan pointed towards the living room running on low. (It was comfortably warm in my bedroom, not too much though. Just right. Had another fan running in there too.)

I was supposed to take delivery of 2 tons of that WoodBrickFuel last sunday but the folks forgot, heh, they're gonna try again thursday evening. I'm excited to use this stove this winter!

 

[fbelec]

fraxinus i just took apart my stove. you were right about the tunnel cement being broken. the secondary tunnel was blocked up from the cement that broke apart, so i had to take apart the side with the loading door(took side off the base) to get the fireback out. the screen was in a few pieces so i had to take out to clean it out. from what i see, the screen covers both seams between the secondary air passage and the above smoke exit, and the secondary air passage from the primary air passage. my question to you, and i hope you can answer this. when i put everything back together i can cement the top seem that separates the smoke passage from the secondary air passage with no problem. access is good, but how do i cement the the lower seem the separates the secondary and primary passages? how do i get the cement in there?

 

[spirilis]

if anyone's curious about my latest experience with the WoodBrickFuel, see this thread: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/42626/

those bricks like that teepee formation with the one brick on top. doesn't take much at all to get them going hot--even overfiring--if you do it that teepee way. my Jotul Series 8 downstairs was cookin' hardcore, right now it's tapering off (woodbricks are almost spent, just glowing husks of blackened sawdust now) at 800F flue temps but it was pushing 1400F earlier before I turned down the air control. That top brick acts like kindling for the rest of the bricks, you just need that enclosed space inside the teepee to get the initial kindling & tinder hot enough to ignite the sawdust.

 

[fbelec]

if anyone's curious about my latest experience with the WoodBrickFuel, see this thread: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/42626/

those bricks like that teepee formation with the one brick on top. doesn't take much at all to get them going hot--even overfiring--if you do it that teepee way. my Jotul Series 8 downstairs was cookin' hardcore, right now it's tapering off (woodbricks are almost spent, just glowing husks of blackened sawdust now) at 800F flue temps but it was pushing 1400F earlier before I turned down the air control. That top brick acts like kindling for the rest of the bricks, you just need that enclosed space inside the teepee to get the initial kindling & tinder hot enough to ignite the sawdust.

flue temps look kinda high. at that high of a flue temp how long does a load last? where is and what kind of thermometer are you using? at 1400 degrees that smoke pipe or what ever shold be glowing red. thats not a good thing. if that is a true smoke pipe reading you need to back it down to half that 1400 reading then see if you are putting out any smoke.

 

[fbelec]

if anyone's curious about my latest experience with the WoodBrickFuel, see this thread: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/42626/

those bricks like that teepee formation with the one brick on top. doesn't take much at all to get them going hot--even overfiring--if you do it that teepee way. my Jotul Series 8 downstairs was cookin' hardcore, right now it's tapering off (woodbricks are almost spent, just glowing husks of blackened sawdust now) at 800F flue temps but it was pushing 1400F earlier before I turned down the air control. That top brick acts like kindling for the rest of the bricks, you just need that enclosed space inside the teepee to get the initial kindling & tinder hot enough to ignite the sawdust.

just read your other post. if the pipe is not cherry red i would check the condor to see if it is accurate. some how. may throw the probe in a 400 degree oven just to see if your in the ballpark.

 

[spirilis]

if anyone's curious about my latest experience with the WoodBrickFuel, see this thread: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/42626/

those bricks like that teepee formation with the one brick on top. doesn't take much at all to get them going hot--even overfiring--if you do it that teepee way. my Jotul Series 8 downstairs was cookin' hardcore, right now it's tapering off (woodbricks are almost spent, just glowing husks of blackened sawdust now) at 800F flue temps but it was pushing 1400F earlier before I turned down the air control. That top brick acts like kindling for the rest of the bricks, you just need that enclosed space inside the teepee to get the initial kindling & tinder hot enough to ignite the sawdust.

just read your other post. if the pipe is not cherry red i would check the condor to see if it is accurate. some how. may throw the probe in a 400 degree oven just to see if your in the ballpark.

hm, good point. nothing was cherry red. I'll try that.

the load totalled 7 bricks, and has lasted around ~3 hours until now where the flue temps are around ~700F with the air damper fully open (fuel mostly spent). not too long really. got REALLY hot in the basement though, would have loved to have a thermometer in that room just to see. my fiancee would have loved it if she was here tonight.
unfortunately it's dark out so I can't tell if the gases coming out the chimney top are opaque or not...

 

[fraxinus]

fbelec - The rebuild manual is pretty clear about how to replace the tube. Briefly, you need to apply cement to the lower flanges on the rear casting and the flanges on the lower half of the fire back when it is still out of the stove then carefully tilt the fireback into place. The screening goes on the top flanges only. Check the rebuild instructions - quite good, step by step with illustrations. Does make it seem a good deal easier than it actually is, though.

 

[spirilis]

if anyone's curious about my latest experience with the WoodBrickFuel, see this thread: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/42626/

those bricks like that teepee formation with the one brick on top. doesn't take much at all to get them going hot--even overfiring--if you do it that teepee way. my Jotul Series 8 downstairs was cookin' hardcore, right now it's tapering off (woodbricks are almost spent, just glowing husks of blackened sawdust now) at 800F flue temps but it was pushing 1400F earlier before I turned down the air control. That top brick acts like kindling for the rest of the bricks, you just need that enclosed space inside the teepee to get the initial kindling & tinder hot enough to ignite the sawdust.

just read your other post. if the pipe is not cherry red i would check the condor to see if it is accurate. some how. may throw the probe in a 400 degree oven just to see if your in the ballpark.

Haven't tried putting the thermometer in the oven yet, but I fired her up again this morning. Reached 1000F in no time--I think the flames are actually hitting the probe, as it seems the Jotul's secondary burn is almost designed to make it happen in the upper firebox if not the stovepipe itself. Still odd that it's not cherry red at all, though... But at 1000F on that probe I see no smoke coming out the chimney outside, so it's a good sign either way.

 

[fbelec]

fbelec - The rebuild manual is pretty clear about how to replace the tube. Briefly, you need to apply cement to the lower flanges on the rear casting and the flanges on the lower half of the fire back when it is still out of the stove then carefully tilt the fireback into place. The screening goes on the top flanges only. Check the rebuild instructions - quite good, step by step with illustrations. Does make it seem a good deal easier than it actually is, though.

thank you. i had the manual for the stove, but not the rebuild manual. just downloaded that. titled defiant: top to bttom and back again. i kind of figured that would be the way to cement that part figuring that the cement would touch inside when i put the fireback in place, but i just wanted to check. i lucked out the last time i had the top off the stove. the sides did not get disturbed. now i have to cement everything back together. should run good after this.

 

[fbelec]

if anyone's curious about my latest experience with the WoodBrickFuel, see this thread: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/42626/

those bricks like that teepee formation with the one brick on top. doesn't take much at all to get them going hot--even overfiring--if you do it that teepee way. my Jotul Series 8 downstairs was cookin' hardcore, right now it's tapering off (woodbricks are almost spent, just glowing husks of blackened sawdust now) at 800F flue temps but it was pushing 1400F earlier before I turned down the air control. That top brick acts like kindling for the rest of the bricks, you just need that enclosed space inside the teepee to get the initial kindling & tinder hot enough to ignite the sawdust.

just read your other post. if the pipe is not cherry red i would check the condor to see if it is accurate. some how. may throw the probe in a 400 degree oven just to see if your in the ballpark.

Haven't tried putting the thermometer in the oven yet, but I fired her up again this morning. Reached 1000F in no time--I think the flames are actually hitting the probe, as it seems the Jotul's secondary burn is almost designed to make it happen in the upper firebox if not the stovepipe itself. Still odd that it's not cherry red at all, though... But at 1000F on that probe I see no smoke coming out the chimney outside, so it's a good sign either way.

normally if the stove or pipe runs about 1100 degrees they glo. thats why i say check the condor out. it is quite possible that the probe is touching flame. but i woulg think if you probe is that far up into the pipe and it's seeing flame i would say that the stove is being overfired. at 1400 degrees if you had any creosote in there it fire up and burned off.

 

[spirilis]

Had some more fun with the Defiant last night. Built a woodbrickfuel fire with 5 bricks in the teepee and a firestarter in the middle, got the beast up to 500F after an hour or 2, tried out the secondary burn... and it didn't seem to work. Flue temps dropped kinda fast and griddle temps dropped to 450F within 10min, no smoke coming out of the doors (just replaced the door gaskets so that's good) but I could smell something coming out the griddle gasket. Just replaced that one too, might have fudged the job a bit though. Think I'll stop by ACE hardware and give that griddle gasket another try.

In either case, the temps recovered a bit at 500F, but I'm guessing the bricks reached their point of no return (is there a proper term for that? where the wood stops heating up and goes on a slow, steady decline to ashes?) and with 450F griddle top, I could see a lot of smoke coming out the chimney. Creosote factory indeed. Even that slow, steady decline to ashes kept the house warm though, and it was 82F inside when I woke up, with the Defiant still sitting around 200F griddle-top, some glowing embers inside but mostly ash. Now about 4 hours later it's just warm to the touch.

I guess I am curious, at what temperature should I not see any smoke coming out that chimney? Might have to run it really hot since the flue is so big (12"x12") and I guess to do that all night long without dumping creosote up the chimney, I'll have to load the firebox with woodbrickfuel and close off the air damper a bit. Those bricks burn so fricken' hot that I'd imagine this is possible.

On that note, I may use the Jotul a little more. It takes longer to heat the house, being in the basement, but it doesn't require that much fuel and it does take the chill off--or help the upstairs maintain whatever temps it's showing. I guess I'll know about that more when it gets into the lower 30's outside at night...
The Defiant sounds like a solution for those 0-20F nights. Unless I rebuild it, which I should consider right now...

 

[peakbagger]

Dick Hill a retired professor at U Maine and all around wood buring guru, always claimed that every one should have two wood stoves, a small firebox one for spring/fall shoulder season and one for the really cold weather. Basically he was an advocate of running stoves full bore for max efficiency. Therefore you now have the ideal setup!

 

[spirilis]

Dick Hill a retired professor at U Maine and all around wood buring guru, always claimed that every one should have two wood stoves, a small firebox one for spring/fall shoulder season and one for the really cold weather. Basically he was an advocate of running stoves full bore for max efficiency. Therefore you now have the ideal setup!

It makes sense! Only wish the folks would have built separate flues into this house instead of one big (code-violating) flue, but at least the two stoves burn properly.

 

[fbelec]

just got thru rebuilding my defiant. i got stuck using two different cements. the rutland. black gooey stuff. and the imperial. gray pastie sand cement. easier to get the rutland into spots that are hard to get and sticks better. getting the secondary channel sealed was a chore. still using the one piece fireback. when i think i got it, i shined a light thru secondary to see if it made it thru to the primary. did it 4 times then took a looooong flat head screwdriver stuck it in and used it like a trowel. what a pain in the back. lit it off yesterday after the 24 hour set period the cement required. not sure if the secondary is working. brought the stove up to 600 to 650 for 1 to 1.5 hours and tried it, still smoking from chimney. but i did have more control over the plate temp with the baffle closed that i never had before. well, i tried.

 

[TakeTheCann0lis]

Does anyone have a link to the rebuild PDF? I just fired my used Defiant II up today for the first time, and I'm having hard times keeping the fire going when I close the doors. My air intakes seem to be clear, but I'm not sure if they're clear past the nozzle or not.