Oil Prices Now

[SpaceBus]

If people had to sell things for what they paid for them commerce would grind to a halt. That's not to say people aren't gouging, that's totally happening.

 

[vinny11950]

It will be interesting to see how demand in the U.S. adjusts to the higher oil prices. Now we have a more diversified energy mix that can better withstand price shocks. We also have more information technology to help us navigate better choices, like working from home, or better planning of trips to travel cheaper.

Which is why I think you will hear a lot of complaining about higher gasoline prices but the economy will just keep rolling along as companies continue to adjust their operations to the new post-covid world.

 

[ABMax24]

I think it's pretty hard to call it price gouging. At $125/barrel that works out to $3/gallon. Not including refining costs, trucking costs to the fuel station, fuel taxes, or the fact that you can't solely get gasoline or diesel from that barrel of oil, there are products both lighter and heavier that can't be sold as traditional motor fuels.

 

[Ashful]

It will be interesting to see how demand in the U.S. adjusts to the higher oil prices. Now we have a more diversified energy mix that can better withstand price shocks. We also have more information technology to help us navigate better choices, like working from home, or better planning of trips to travel cheaper.

Good points. The number of people I know working from home must easily be 20x higher today, than it was 3 years ago. Likewise, whereas most of our social circle used to fly somewhere each year for vacation, I see more today using local shore points or other similar "by car" vacation options, due to the uncertainty of booking flights and foreign resorts 6 months out, amidst the ebb and flow of a pandemic.

In some (perhaps naive) hope that volume will finally drive down pricing, I also hope that higher gas prices might translate to EV sales taking an even larger fraction of the market. More likely, it will just depress auto sales across the board, but one can hope.

At the same time, I'm lamenting the death of the 6.2L Hemi Hellcat, a scant 20 months into our future. While I enjoy the thought of quiet and torquey EV's replacing ICE's for the vast herds of commuters, despite the obvious performance advantages, I am still disappointed to see them replacing big noisy v8's in our muscle cars.

 

[SpaceBus]

Good points. The number of people I know working from home must easily be 20x higher today, than it was 3 years ago. Likewise, whereas most of our social circle used to fly somewhere each year for vacation, I see more today using local shore points or other similar "by car" vacation options, due to the uncertainty of booking flights and foreign resorts 6 months out, amidst the ebb and flow of a pandemic.

In some (perhaps naive) hope that volume will finally drive down pricing, I also hope that higher gas prices might convert EV sales taking an even larger fraction of the market. More likely, it will just depress auto sales across the board, but one can hope.

At the same time, I'm lamenting the death of the 6.2L Hemi Hellcat, a scant 20 months into our future. While I enjoy the thought of quiet and torquey EV's replacing ICE's for the vast herds of commuters, despite the obvious performance advantages, I am still disappointed to see them replacing big noisy v8's in our muscle cars.

I will also miss fire breathing performance ICE's. For a while I thought they might hang around in a couple of niche vehicles for the foreseeable future, but with more and more MFG's saying they are going all in on EV is making me doubt that. Porsche was committed to producing renewable liquid fuels, but they might be the only ones sticking to their guns.

 

[EbS-P]

Good points. The number of people I know working from home must easily be 20x higher today, than it was 3 years ago. Likewise, whereas most of our social circle used to fly somewhere each year for vacation, I see more today using local shore points or other similar "by car" vacation options, due to the uncertainty of booking flights and foreign resorts 6 months out, amidst the ebb and flow of a pandemic.

In some (perhaps naive) hope that volume will finally drive down pricing, I also hope that higher gas prices might translate to EV sales taking an even larger fraction of the market. More likely, it will just depress auto sales across the board, but one can hope.

At the same time, I'm lamenting the death of the 6.2L Hemi Hellcat, a scant 20 months into our future. While I enjoy the thought of quiet and torquey EV's replacing ICE's for the vast herds of commuters, despite the obvious performance advantages, I am still disappointed to see them replacing big noisy v8's in our muscle cars.

I’m to lazy to look up hellcat production numbers. But it was not a volume product and probably not a very profitable one at its sales numbers. It’s was a branding flagship icon. But they will put the hellcat name on some stupid fast and torquy EV. If Tesla can get a 5600 pound suv to 60 in 2.5 seconds, there is your measuring stick. Will be interesting so see your the rubber burning burnout crowd feels about not ever shifting gears. But being able to make 10 sec 1/4 pass with a factory vehicle is nothing short of amazing. Especially when it can be an efficient daily driver. Volume production will drive down cost.

I’m hoping I can get a 15 passenger van before they go electric.

 

[stoveliker]

I’m hoping I can get a 15 passenger van before they go electric.

Why? Imagine the fun of having 15 people in the back while accelerating to 60 in 3 seconds. The look on their faces :D

 

[EbS-P]

Why? Imagine the fun of having 15 people in the back while accelerating to 60 in 3 seconds. The look on their faces :D

That would be great but the 50 miles range towing a camper would suck or the battery cost would be 6 figures.

 

[EbS-P]

We have not imported Russian oil is a few weeks.

Weekly Preliminary Crude Imports by Top 10 Countries of Origin (ranking based on 2023 Petroleum Supply Monthly data)

We now are along for the ride just like the rest of the world.

 

[vinny11950]

I heard an analyst say oil needs to get well over $150 to begin to get the demand destruction needed to slow consumption.

 

[woodey]

Depending on if sanctions against Russia also include the importation of oil or gas. 2021 stats show the US importing 750,000 bpd of oil and oil products from Russia. That's a significant hole to fill in that scenario.

I think you mean 4%

Yes it is 3-4%. But fear not, the current administration is negotiating with another communist country to fill that void.

 

[EbS-P]

I heard an analyst say oil needs to get well over $150 to begin to get the demand destruction needed to slow consumption.

Yes it is 3-4%. But fear not, the current administration is negotiating with another communist country to fill that void.

Better idea let’s go to a 4 day work week. Many schools may have no other option. I could cut my energy consumption by 5% without little trouble. In fact when the pipeline got shut down I turn off the AC in the van and drove like my great grandmother and when from 16.0 mpg to 18.5.

Anything less than 5 % is manageable domestic production can likely provide that. A very low production well might be worth pumping again

 

[woodey]

I Good points. The number of people I know working from home must easily be 20x higher today, than it was 3 years ago. Likewise, whereas most of our social circle used to fly somewhere each year for vacation, I see more today using local shore points or other similar "by car" vacation options, due to the uncertainty of booking flights and foreign resorts 6 months out, amidst the ebb and flow of a pandemic.

In some (perhaps naive) hope that volume will finally drive down pricing, I also hope that higher gas prices might translate to EV sales taking an even larger fraction of the market. More likely, it will just depress auto sales across the board, but one can hope.

At the same time, I'm lamenting the death of the 6.2L Hemi Hellcat, a scant 20 months into our future. While I enjoy the thought of quiet and torquey EV's replacing ICE's for the vast herds of commuters, despite the obvious performance advantages, I am still disappointed to see them replacing big noisy v8's in our muscle ca muscle cars.

If you are willing to put down $150,000 you can still buy a Ram TRX Mammoth , mods by Hennessey. 1012 HP.

 

[SpaceBus]

Better idea let’s go to a 4 day work week. Many schools may have no other option. I could cut my energy consumption by 5% without little trouble. In fact when the pipeline got shut down I turn off the AC in the van and drove like my great grandmother and when from 16.0 mpg to 18.5.

Anything less than 5 % is manageable domestic production can likely provide that. A very low production well might be worth pumping again

That's pretty good out of that van! If I drive like a grandma I can average 26+ MPG with my 22' diesel land boat.

 

[tlc1976]

the massachusetts secretary of state just said on the news that this is price gouging. this gas today was purchased 6 months ago. anybody have proof? does what he said hold water.

If that’s how it worked, then 6 months after prices go back down, they should still charge based on what they paid during record highs. Because it’s what they paid. And people would still say it’s price gouging.

To maintain a business you have to keep up with current market prices. You have to earn enough to replenish your stock.

Wish I could work from home but my company is dead set against it. I think most places are, at least here. Honestly all winter I’ve been seeing more traffic on my commute than ever. Been in this house 6 years and it was a rare occurrence I’d have to stop for traffic at the end of my driveway in the morning. Now it’s almost every day.

 

[begreen]

Our Dodge Grand Caravan gets an easy 28-30mpg on the freeway and most trips. Worst case winter short trip driving is 20mpg. I got it after selling our F150 which loved gas. The Dodge has a huge capacity (4x8 sheets of plywood lay flat) and can quickly convert into a 7 passenger vehicle. It's become my new truck. I filled it last week @ 3.85/gal (Costco). That should last several months.
That said, we mostly drive the Volt on electrons now. That covers 90% of our driving in the past 2 yrs. Where we will get hit is for lawn and field mowing. I just got 10 gallons of gas yesterday @$4.58/gal. It went up today to $4.83 at the local pump.

 

[begreen]

A friend posted this reminder from 2008.

 

[peakbagger]

Standard Fuel Economy thoughts

Check your tire pressure, even tire pressure monitoring systems can be mis calibrated so they read wrong.

Slow down. Aerodynamic drag really kicks in over 50 MPH. It is natural to want to run in the fast lane, resist the temptation and set the cruise control. I know personally that it takes a bit to get used to driving slower.

Take the roof racks, bike racks and cargo trunks off the cars especially smaller econoboxes. Buy some stickers for the car if you want to express your outdoors cred.

If winter is over swap over from winter snow tires to regular tires. Snow tires generally reduce gas mileage.

Weight does make a difference especially on smaller vehicles, If you can empty out extra weight from the trunk or the bed it will make a difference.

 

[SpaceBus]

A friend posted this reminder from 2008.

View attachment 293242

This is what it looked like when I first started driving and graduated high school.

 

[johneh]

I started my Mechanics apprenticeship in 1968
at a Pontiac, Buick, GMC dealer, and gas was 22 cents a gallon
could tour all weekend in my Canadian built Pontiac Acadian SD with a 300 hp 327
for 5 dollars. Mind you my take-home pay was only 62$ a week
Dam I miss those days.

 

[stoveliker]

I used to drive at an average between 40 and 41 mpg. Stick shift, no hybrid. (Now I don't know anymore; no work commute, so mostly very short trips. Ideal for an electric vehicle... I can still borrow my wife's larger car.)

How? I drove only to and from work, and the occasional Home Depot trip. I drive like an old fart.

In fact, for the (rare) longer distances, it's fantastically relaxing to drive 3 miles over the speed limit. Everyone else hussles, changes lanes, etc. My speed is very constant. I.e. no accelerations.
And that brings me to the most important part of "drive like an old fart". Yes, top speed matters. But acceleration matters more. Just take it easy when getting away from a traffic light.

Finally, I have a small car. I noted already that I mostly drove to work. So all the hundreds of pounds of metal only have to carry me. I.e. they don't have to amount to a big car. And I still got all the supplies for my woodshed (except for the 4x8 OSB for the roof) in my own car (lower the front seat to "lounge", put down the back seating, and you can carry a boatload that no one ever thought was possible.

I used to have a Ford Focus sedan before. I've gotten doors at (then) Lowes. Put the seats down, put it in, all done. Often folks in nice pick up trucks would stop and watch, smiling, how this crazy guy would go about taking all that home. And then 5 minutes later they would drive away, having seen it's not that big of a deal.

So yes, I look stupid at 6'4" in that car (but I still have 3" head room, actually more than in the Focus), yes I drive like an old fart. But then again, I get only 4 mpg or so less than a Prius hybrid. And I got this car "last year's model" with only 300 miles on the counter (driven up from Atlanta to a dealer in East TN) for 11k$ rather than 45k$ or so. New, all warranties.

So, confession, this is my car (model, not the poisonous color...):

Yes, sometimes I wish I had a pick up. Yes, this is not for everyone; some folks truly can't do without more lugging capacity. But many more folks could use a small car when they think that it would not work.

So, man card surrendered - I get it. But I'm not surrendering the dollars in the quantities that others do to get around. And I get extra points because I hand-split all my wood

 

[ABMax24]

This is in the Northwest Territories here in Canada, this is price per liter, for reference there are 3.78 liters in a US gallon.

 

[Sodbuster]

My wife and I are retired, I drive a 2010 Silverado and she drives a 2017 Toyota Camry. We've parked my truck and are only using the Camry. 13 mpg vs 30 mpg, a no brainer. I'm concerned because oil is used for much more than fuel, it's priced into almost everything you buy.

 

[Jan Pijpelink]

Hongkong has the highest gasoline price in the world. Next is the Netherlands. There, gasoline is 2.34 Euro/2.54 Dollars per liter which is $9.60 per gallon. The US still has a very low gasoline price compared to most western industrial countries.

 

[Sodbuster]

Hi Jan, my concern is that these high fuel prices will hurt the working poor the hardest. When you are spending50% of what you make to get to work it will create a very serious situation; prices going up, take home pay going down.