Northern pass

[georgepds]

With this HVDC from Hydro Quebec Massachusetts will be ~50% renewable

Yet the Conservation law foundation fought it. I have not followed the arguments.. anyone have a clue as to opposition. In my simple view, Quebec has the hydro power, why not use it? Is it NIMBY for some people who now have to see a power line, or has HQ run rough shod over native water rights ? eh?



https://www.utilitydive.com/news/ma...ansmission-project-for-clean-energy-g/515610/

"Once completed, Northern Pass would boost Massachusett's electricity supply to almost 50% clean energy, according to a statement from Gov. Charlie Baker's office. "

http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2018/01/wins_major_massachusetts_clean.html

"BOSTON -- Northern Pass Transmission has won a high-stakes state-sponsored contest to provide Massachusetts with enough clean power to light up a million homes over 20 years.

The 192-mile, 1,090-megawatt line planned through the center of New Hampshire will transport power exclusively from Hydro-Quebec dams and reservoirs, Department of Energy Resources commissioner Judith Judson announced today.

The statement from the CLF does not really help

https://www.clf.org/newsroom/northern-pass-selection-shows-utter-disregard-public-outcry/

“Choosing Northern Pass reflects a process corrupted by the heavy hand of our region’s largest utility,” said Greg Cunningham, Director of CLF’s Clean Energy and Climate Change program. “

This one does, but it suggests a pissing contest between the utility and the CLF, and NIMBY on the part of NH residents. NIMBY in NH???? These NH folks are still struggling with the concept of zoning.. (e.g. They've made a mess of Nashua)

https://www.clf.org/blog/false-claims-desperate-measures-mark-latest-chapter-northern-pass/

" Rather than address the many issues that have made the project so unpopular with New Hampshire residents, they instead chose to run a smear campaign against us."

 

[peakbagger]

As usual no easy answer. If you have the time this series of podcasts may get you up to speed on Hydro Quebec and how they managed to get a poor reputation
http://nhpr.org/post/powerline-how-hydro-qu-bec-helped-shape-canadian-energy-and-cultural-history

Its very hard to get a handle on how big the total empoundments are for the HQ project. Roughly if you put the dams flowing into James Bay on the NY Mass border and flood a chain of what were totally wild lakes and rivers all the way to Eastport Maine you are pretty darn close. Its Nimbyism on countrywide scale in that Mass doesnt have to see it. Do note that most New England States including Mass looked at HQ power years ago and deemed it "brown". VT was desperate to get rid of Vermont Yankee and during the last legislative session before a Christmas break quietly declared HQ "green" and Mass is doing the same with CT soon to follow.

The NH opposition is quite complex. NH is a net power producer and used to send renewable power from local biomass power plants to Mass before Mass decided that regional biomass plants burning forest residuals was not green even after the plants did significant air quality upgrades. They would rather landfill waste wood. The project admittedly does nothing to impact the NH state power costs long term yet the residents have to bear the brunt of the impact especially in the northern part of the state and the White Mountain National Forest. Eversource has set up NP under a deregulated side of the company so any profits dont flow to the ratepayers,despite the ratepayers having to bail out the successor to Eversource for millions related to Seabrook. Eversource tried to do a quick and dirty project using ratepayer owned right of ways leased out at pennies to a profit making arm of the company that would turn around and re-lease it to NP at a significant profit. There are alternative alignments that are shorter and potentially have less impact but they reduce the amount of right of way that the utility leases back to itself via NP so it reduces their long term profit. NP said that burial along existing right of ways was impossible but when they realized that the project would not get key permits due to potential national opposition, the burial of the most politically troublesome sections suddenly became possible. The state Department of Environmental Services have stated the proposed alignment especially up north has significant environmental impacts that will be difficult to mitigate compared to an alternative alignment along roads. This conveniently is no longer an issue as the new Governor who has benefited by significant political and financial backing from Eversource got the prior DES commissioner to resign and brought in an Eversource supporter to replace him.

Most folks understanding of NH stops around RT2 and forget the northern quarter of the state. This is mostly woods and rolling hills along the Connecticut River where folks moved to get away from the "rat race". Eversource sunk a lot of money buying various property's for transmission lines in the area only to be blocked and the current route is a gerrymandered route that they really need to build on despite there being a far better burial option along a combination of rail right of ways and roads as otherwise they eat the costs for the land purchase and the long range revenue. Note the state long ago ruled that the project didn't benefit residents in the long run so they couldn't use eminent domain.

The IBEW is big supporter but the reality is the state is mostly non union and the contract has already been pre awarded to an out of state specialty contractor. There are plenty of short term construction and support jobs for locals but the problem is there are very few locals to take these jobs, the areas is mostly older folks and retirees and the statewide unemployment rate is one of the lowest in the US. Sure there will be gold rush to the area but the reality are what little there are of tourist accommodations are already booked with ATV and Snow machine owners.

Optimistically NP claims a 2020 finish date but both parties expect significant litigation will delay the project into the 2021 time frame at the earliest.

The other aspect is the security of these lines. The existing 1000 MW DC line got shut down a few years ago due to a couple of morons target shooting insulators. The lines are not easy to hide and there are numerous locations to drive right up to them. HQ lost the majority of their above ground transmission system in 1998 due to an ice storm and exports out of the region were suspended for months if not years while the system was rebuilt with above ground towers subject to the same potential icing conditions. Burial makes a lot of sense and is used frequently in Europe but the first cost is higher and arguably the construction takes longer. NP never did any test boring so how much and what type of soil conditions is an unknown. Quebec's power system had been knocked out by solar flares in the past and the only real mitigation is put in trip breakers on the transformers and gear along the way and hope the damage isnt too major. Sending this much power these distances impose line losses that are built in.

CLF has actually been in the background on opposition to the project. I think they support the competing Ngrid/Citizens Energy project or the underwater Lake Champlain project. Both have far less impact and were far more open during project development.

The Society for the Protection of New Hampshire Forests who is a long term organization in the state that protected a core part of what would become the White Mountain National Forest has been the lead. Their memorandum to the State commission that is just now going into a minimum month long deliberative sesson after a year of hearings may be of interest https://forestsociety.org/blog-post/executive-summary-forest-society-post-hearing-memorandum

 

[georgepds]

Thanks..

I looked at the system load graph of iso ne... it peaks at 17,500 MW today. That 1000 MW line would represent ~6% of total load.. a significant percentage

https://www.iso-ne.com/isoexpress/



On reason for the opposition,if I understand correctly, they just don't want to look at a power line in northern NH. Sounds like a silly objection to me.

Compare that to objection to increased cancer rates near the old Brayton coal plant, or the difficulty of evacuation if the Seabrook nuke blows, and you get a sense of what I mean by silly.

Death by cancer, or radiation poisoning , or that power line spoils my view... which of these seems silly

 

[peakbagger]

I guess we need to agree to disagree. Its always easy to NIMBY and not knowing where you choose to live and what surrounds your home and community perhaps you choose to live under or near a high voltage powerline, not many would but its a choice you got to make, it if wasnt my sympathies to you. I would expect most Hearth readers would not or at least when they bought their home and possibly planned how they were going to earn a living factored in the reduced value of the property when they bought it. You may enjoy being surrounded by an industrial environment but people in not just Northern NH choose to live in the woods in non industrialized areas. The only remaining source of jobs in Northern NH is the growing outdoor tourism industry and the folks who are driving up are expecting a wilderness experience versus a 300 foot wide swath. You conveniently seemed to have missed that the swath runs from the Canadian border all the way to Concord NH with only 40 miles buried (in the relative woods) so the property and visual impacts extend into more populous areas of the state.

The strange part is that Mass is graciously willing to let NH take the impact yet the project is of no benefit to NH. Strange logic. I would expect that the people most impacted in NH have the right to expect that if the power is needed in Mass the impact should be minimized. It can be by burial along existing highway right of ways. Even NP now grudgingly admits that it can be buried and are burying part of it. Thus it comes down to a financial equation, NP values the impacts to NH less than the additional cost to bury the line which would be born by the people buying the power. Thus the NP proposal is low ball bid partially bought down by imposing impact on NH. Had it been priced correctly with a buried line, it may not have "won" the competition, although given that Eversource the owner of the project was partially responsible to rank the projects I expect it would have won even with an extra 500 million added on. I think its fair that if Mass ratepayers want clean power to keep from dying of cancer or glowing in the dark that they should be willing to pay the full cost of doing the project to minimize the impact to NH. That is not currently the case.

The new or substantially expanded right of way is being imposed on the landowners and only those people whose land is directly impacted by the project get compensation. The abutters dont get a dime for the short term and long term impacts to the abutting properties. The property values have already dropped in the region where the right of ways will run past, most properties near the project sat on the market for a couple of years before being taken off the market as there is no one buying and at least one large resort went out of business as sales dried up when potential buyers found out that the much expanded swath would go through it. Its not just northern NH with impacts, Concord NH the state capital has significant impacts including an large swath of endangered species habitat (the only habitat in the world).

I happen to have an oil pipeline right of way on my property. It has far less impact than a power line but I knew what it was when I bought the land. I regard it as positive as it opens up my view and solar potential. There is also a major powerline right of way south of my development, the lot with the most significant frontage on the power line right of way has been on the market since 1987 and to date no takers despite reductions in price. Meanwhile all the lots along the pipeline right of way were sold long ago and have houses on them. I dont think its coincidence. Note my area is not impacted by the project so I could easily just say Not In My Backyard and be done with it.

The Mass Renewable RFP is statewide NIMBYism local generation is preferable as transmission losses are lower and there is potential market for CHP and waste heat. For all intents and purposes, the best local generation is combined cycle natural gas plants. There was a gas line coming in across western mass that substantially would take care of the imbalance in supply but local opposition derailed it.

I dont know where the cancer issue comes up from, perhaps you would like to expand on that?. The Old Brayton Power plant was just that "old". It was grandfathered on emissions for quite awhile but prior to the current administration its days were numbered. It shut down when the owner had a choice of doing major upgrades to clean up its emissions and the new owner choose to shut down. By the way some of its capacity was replaced with a new gas combined cycle power plant built on the site. Are you advocating that if new Hydro doesn't get brought into the area that new "dirty" coal plants will get built?. Not sure how as despite the current administration's attempts, Boiler MACT rules still apply. MACT is short for Maximum Available Control Technology and the reality is a new coal plant built to the standard are pretty darn clean.

Bringing up Seabrook is an interesting one, its not really a factor or impacted by the mass RFP. Despite all the hype, the worst commercial nuclear power plant disaster in the US at three mile island to date didnt kill anyone or gave anyone a documented causal increase in cancer. Seabrook's operation is not really in play, its baseload power and its cost per KW is far cheaper than HQ power.

 

[georgepds]

Seabrook and Brayton were examples of serious concerns regarding power sources...

But, hey, I understand people value a good view, even if it sounds silly to me

Re no benefit

The local communities don't collect property tax?

Re brayton

https://www.ecori.org/renewable-energy/2017/6/1/brayton-point-a-stubborn-neighbor

"According to a Harvard University study, emissions from the Brayton Point Power Station were responsible for: 106 premature deaths annually; 1,140 emergency-room visits a year; 28,900 asthma attacks per year; and 199,000 daily incidents of upper respiratory symptoms.


The study:

"Estimated Public Health Impacts of Criteria Pollutant Air Emissions from the Salem Harbor and Brayton Point Power Plants

"To translate marginal concentration changes from these sources into estimated adverse health effects, we combined demographic information taken from the U.S. Census with epidemiological studies that estimated concentration-response relationships. We took our baseline estimate of premature mortality from the American Cancer Society prospective cohort study, which found a significant relationship between long-term exposure to particulate matter and mortality rates. Epidemiological studies also provided estimates of air pollution effects on morbidity outcomes, such as hospitalizations, asthma attacks, and respiratory symptoms

Re Seabrook

I think you minimize the lessons of Fukushima.. The current plan is to hand out potassium iodide to everyone within 50miles of Seabrook to minimize radiation poisoning

 

[georgepds]

"Eversource has set up NP under a deregulated side of the company so any profits dont flow to the ratepayers,despite the ratepayers having to bail out the successor to Eversource for millions related to Seabrook"

Can you please elaborate on this statement. I'm not familiar with the structure of Eversource, or its impact on Seabrook

 

[peakbagger]

Well, it looks like I am wasting my time, in your original post you asked for more information, I supplied it to you and you decided to ignore it and now you bring up information on two shut down grandfathered coal plants. Yes particulates are bad things and old coal plants as well as old wood stoves put them out. Old diesels did to and new ones are equipped with particulate traps. New coal plants, new wood stoves (such as yours) and new diesels put out considerably less to the point where they are not significant contributors. I dont see anywhere where its either a new transmission line or building a 100 year old design coal plant for new capacity. Gas plants like the one they just built at Salem Harbor put out no particulate.

Feel free to rail away against nuclear, I have heard all the pros and cons and you arent bringing up anything I havent heard before. Seabrook is there and expect it will continue to be there for quite awhile putting out carbon free power. Would I advocate building a new one, not really but woudl consider some of the newer cycles like thorium.

Yes the NH towns get property taxes from the right of way but they also have to issue property tax reductions for diminished property values of the abutters. I guess by your lack of direct comments you support trashing NH with a new overhead power line to reduce the cost to Mass residents?

 

[georgepds]

So I found some information about the corporate structure of Eversource, and the divestment of Seabrook

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eversource_Energy

"Between 2000 and 2002 due to state laws, NU divested WMECO, CL&P, and
PSNH's nuclear generating assets which consisted of their stakes in the
Seabrook, Millstone, and Vermont Yankee stations. In 2006, NU decided to
sell the generating units it had earlier retained in the 1999
divestiture as competitive suppliers and shutdown its competitive
generation business units. "

 

[georgepds]

Well, it looks like I am wasting my time, in your original post you asked for more information, I supplied it to you and you decided to ignore it ....?

I didn't ignore anything, I summarized your observation. If I understand correctly, the residents of northern NH are worried about their view being spoiled by the power line. Did I miss anything? Are they concerned with increased mortality rates near the line? Are they worried about evacuation if the line goes down?


Thank you for the help, very informative as usual

 

[georgepds]

Looks like NH is about to debate this issue.. and the Massachusette Attorney General is about to review the bid process

https://www.utilitydive.com/news/ma...rthern-pass-project-selection-process/515799/

• "Days after Massachusetts selected Northern Pass transmission project to help it meet renewable energy goals, Massachusetts Attorney General Maura Healy has announced she will review the process which led to Northern Pass' selection...
• "The Northern Pass project still requires approval from other states, with the New Hampshire Site Evaluation Committee slated to make a decision by the end of March, according to the Concord Monitor.

The Concord Monitor summarizes the objection

http://www.concordmonitor.com/Massachusetts-attorney-general-to-review-hydropower-contract-15159321

"The project has pitted supporters, including New Hampshire Republican Gov. Chris Sununu, who say it will create jobs and cut energy costs against those who fear the transmission lines will destroy scenic views, reduce property values and hurt tourism.

If you want to voice your support you can do it here

http://www.northernpass.us/show-your-support.htm

 

[peakbagger]

Well to quote Gilda Radner's Roseanne Roseannadanna, "Never Mind"

http://www.unionleader.com/article/20180201/NEWS05/180209909

There is no competing proposal with the same timeline but at least one with most permits in place that probably would have the same timeline as Northern Pass would have ended up with.

 

[georgepds]

IIRC, I read there is another line proposed to run through Maine. When I was reading about NP they said they'll continue with their plans to wheel down power from the north ( Maine wind)

Still ~1GW line, ~600 MW wind,completely underground along existing right of way, mostly underwater from the looks of it

Maybe they will get the bid. That or one big lawsuit from NP

http://www.mainepx.com/news/2017/7/29/mpx-submits-bid-in-massachusetts-rfp


......
On other matters, nuclear power is not carbon emissions free

http://theconversation.com/is-nuclear-power-zero-emission-no-but-it-isnt-high-emission-either-41615

"My review of various estimates suggests that the greenhouse emissions from nuclear power vary from 10 to 130 grams of CO2 per kilowatt hour of power, with an average of 65 g per kWh – or roughly the same as wind power. For comparison, coal power has emissions of about 900 g per kWh, and gas-fired power about 450 g per kWh. About 15-25% of nuclear’s greenhouse emissions come from building, maintaining and decommissioning the nuclear power plant.

"Another analysis, by energy consultants Jan Willem Storm van Leeuwen and Philip Smith, forecast that the emissions from nuclear power could ultimately rival those from natural gas. But this high estimate is a clear outlier among the results shown in the IPCC assessment, and this was largely because it assumed that uranium mines will need to be fully restored to “greenfield sites” – something that most analysts have not considered necessary.

 

[georgepds]

More about the issue here

https://www.utilitydive.com/news/ne...ransmission-throwing-project-into-dou/516201/


"Even if Northern Pass appeals and ultimately wins, the process could set the project behind schedule. An expedited schedule is one reason Massachusetts selected the line — its schedule was two years shorter than other proposals.

"A spokesperson for the Massachusetts Attorney General said yesterday the decision "raises serious questions about this timetable." That announcement follows Healey's calls for an investigation into the process used to select Northern Pass.

"At a minimum, it appears today's development requires re-evaluation of the selection of Northern Pass," Chloe Gotsis,
And here

https://www.utilitydive.com/news/ma...rthern-pass-project-selection-process/515799/

"The fact that Eversource's proposal was not the cheapest proposal is helping to fuel suspicions, The Republican reports, despite state law outlining who would be involved in making the decision. Eversource's rapid timeline for the project, two years ahead of other proposals, may have made the difference, according to media reports. An independent evaluator was also involved.

"The Conservation Law Foundation issued a statement saying the process was "corrupted by the heavy hand of our region’s largest utility." The group said it would be actively participating in the Department of Public Utilities’ review of the proposed contract and is currently participating in the siting process.

 

[georgepds]

Massachusetts Department of Energy Resources head Judith Judson directed utilities to examine whether or not the Northern Pass transmission project could meet its operational deadline of 2020 following a rejection by New Hampshire regulators, Renews.biz reports.

People are saying (PAS) Governor Boomboom (R. Ma) has mobilized the Massachusetts National Guard to secure the NP corridor. Governor Boomboom supposedly said “They’re just a bunch of grumpy hicks up there worrying about their view. We figure we can make them fold at the working end of union gun barrel”. PAS Ma. Guard Major General Guano Moore notes “we were planning spring maneuvers anyways, we should be able to secure the corridor under the existing budget.” Massachusetts Air national guard has several advanced fighter it can draw on (the A -10, the F16, the F15 and even the odd F 22). Though not very useful in blowing away the odd Moose or Coyote along the proposed corridor, they should provide a big bang. “That’ll make the geezers soil their depends” PAS Sgt. Major Wildeye supposedly said

Former governor Dukakis was seen frantically searching for his tank commander helmet

PAS NH Brigadier General Zorba Papadopolus has promised to “kick pinko buts, we know how to handle commies.. We’ve done it before and we can do it again”. Despite General Papadopolus aggressive response, there is some doubt as to authorization from Governor Sununu. “As Massachusetts scrambles to proceed with its major clean energy project after Northern Pass’s application was recently denied, GOP Gov. Chris Sununu took to the radio on Friday to blast the Site Evaluation Committee’s unanimous 7 to 0 vote against building the controversial 192-mile powerline from Pittsburg to Deerfield.**”

“The members of the New Hampshire Site Evaluation Committee (SEC) who unanimously rejected the Northern Pass transmission project have made not comment.

“Five of the seven members of the SEC represent state agencies and two are members of the public. The members include Chairman Martin Honigberg, PUC, presiding officer; Commissioner Kathryn Bailey, PUC; Dir. Craig Wright, Department of Environmental Services; Christopher Way, Department of Business and Economic Affairs; William Oldenburg, Department of Transportation; Patricia Weathersby, public member; and Rachel Dandeneau, alternate public member. “

When pressed for comment none of the members were available. PAS a lone staffer answering the call said most have gone to their vacation homes just over the border in Canada. A Canadian reporter was able to locate Chairman Martin Honigberg at the Pittsburg / Chartierville crossing, just east of west armpit in the Northeast kingdom. When pressed he responded with the Qubecois “Eh”. PAS this means “I just served in the PUC for a couple of bucks, I’m not ready to get in hot war over this”.

Dartmouth Senior Lecturer in Classics and Linguistics Yhtomit Ujlup notes that the Quebecois “Eh”, while nuanced and expressive, is not able to convey the above, (though he plans another Ted talk on the possibility)

Sununu (R.NH) said he wants change.

“When you look at that process, that just screams that something’s wrong and as governor, I’m going to do what I can to fix it,” Sununu said. He didn’t specify how.

Perhaps he plans to collude with the Ma armed invasion, just saying….

**

http://www.concordmonitor.com/Sununu-Blasts-SEC-On-WTSN-Northern-Pass-Was--Railroaded--15473996

 

[peakbagger]

Kind of early for April Fools day

 

[peakbagger]

Bringing this thread back to life to finally bury it.

The NH Supreme court rejected Eversource' appeal. This effectively kills the project. The courts opinion did not leave a lot of ambiguity for Eversource to try to find any positive outcome.

I expect there may be some retirements and lateral transfers in the Eversource organization. The CEO was pretty emphatic for several years that the project would happen. There were several financial industry analysts that appeared to enjoy backing him into a corner on this. Of late the tune has been that the loss of the project would not materially impact the Eversource's long term financials.

The project intended to replace the Northern Pass project in Maine is also having a rough time of late. There is citizen referendum that is collecting signatures to ban the project. If that doesnt go, then the only remaining project is one that has been that permitted in VT that is not to HQs liking.

It could be that the New England is going to have to take a new look at local renewable power instead of power from a 1000 miles away.

 

[SpaceBus]

Basically everyone I ask in Maine about transmission lines or oil pipelines all say "f___ those Mass holes" or something to that effect. I don't expect any energy transfer projects to take off in New England.