News on epa 2020 certified combination wood furnaces

[dgwood]

Hi all!

I am new here but have been burning wood for the last decade. Looking into purchasing a new wood furnace for my 1600 sq ft home. As far as I know, there are only 3 new wood furnaces on the market: Drolet heat commander, Caddy advanced (these two owned by same parent company PSG, and Kuuma vapor fire 100. I heard some discussion that Caddy may be coming out with a combination wood/oil furnace for 2023-24 heating season and this sparked my interest. Does anyone have any insight into whether this is true or not? I don't really want have two separate furnace units in my basement and would much prefer a single unit. Besides that it would be complicated to install a wood furnace in series with my existing oil unit.

Appreciate any input on the topic or wood furnaces in general. Thanks

 

[sloeffle]

@SBI_Nick might be able to give you some information. There have been some other threads about this same topic that might have more information.

 

[LogCabinFever]

Nick has been a bit inactive as of late. But I’ll try to answer some questions, since I’ve looked into combination furnaces for about 3-4yrs. Below is the thread on the PSG Caddy

The Caddy Advanced is finally on PSG's site...

Caddy Advanced No sign of the CR model yet though...

www.hearth.com

There is no EPA 2020 certified combination furnace in existence currently in the USA. PSG has been working on the Caddy Advanced CR (Combo Ready) furnace for quite a while (4+yrs since the release of the regular Advanced) and as far as I know, it’s still in development. I’ve been told by multiple sources that they will no longer offer a wood/oil option, since it likely would never pass current EPA standards. They plan to offer wood/electric and wood/propane. From what I gather, it’s been a very rocky road to develop this furnace, and they keep running into issues, and keep pushing the release date. Now they no longer mention release dates. So I would say this: if you’re committed to the combo idea, you’ll have to be patient.

Also, you mention that you can’t put in two furnaces in series. In the US, series installations are not permitted anyways.

Check out the thread and see if it still interests you. My house has a relatively small footprint like yours, and so I understand the interest in just having one furnace.

 

[SBI_Nick]

@SBI_Nick might be able to give you some information. There have been some other threads about this same topic that might have more information.

Hello,

the Caddy Advanced CR is still in work, with the price increase of many components we are putting some more time in cost reduction effort. Like it was mention by LogCabinFever the combo that will be offer is with a gas furnace, either propane or natural gas that would looks a lot like a series installation, but fully integrated.

Thanks,
Nick

 

[dgwood]

I appreciate all the responses as that has shed some light on my question and I see that a wood/oil combo will likely never happen. I spoke with a customer service rep today who said the same thing and that the furnace will likely not be released until next heating season.
My new plan is to replace my existing oil furnace with a heat pump system/air handler setup that will allow me to use the existing duct work as I can’t solely rely on a wood furnace for heat so a backup system is necessary. I will be supplementing this system with a wood stove in the basement.
I do have some questions regarding the new heatflow s5 forced air system. It’s an add system on to compatible wood stoves that allows you to connect up to 4 ducts to more efficiently distribute the heat to other rooms. The manual says it cannot be used with existing duct work unless the existing furnace is removed or made inoperable. Can anyone tell me why I can’t just hook a duct line to my existing duct work supply run and use it in conjunction with my existing oil furnace and/or future heat pump? Of course I would likely turn the furnace off and use the blower fan in the furnace or heat pump in conjunction with the blower fan in this kit to circulate the air through the house.

https://www.drolet.ca/us/en/wood-stoves/db03033k/

 

[brenndatomu]

I do have some questions regarding the new heatflow s5 forced air system. It’s an add system on to compatible wood stoves that allows you to connect up to 4 ducts to more efficiently distribute the heat to other rooms. The manual says it cannot be used with existing duct work unless the existing furnace is removed or made inoperable. Can anyone tell me why I can’t just hook a duct line to my existing duct work supply run and use it in conjunction with my existing oil furnace and/or future heat pump? Of course I would likely turn the furnace off and use the blower fan in the furnace or heat pump in conjunction with the blower fan in this kit to circulate the air through the house.

https://www.drolet.ca/us/en/wood-stoves/db03033k/

Its probably due to not having return air hooked up to the stove and the possibility of pulling a negative pressure in the stove room if both are ever running together, causing a reverse draft in the stove chimney, CO in the house.

 

[dgwood]

The stove would be located in the same room in the finished basement within 12’ of the furnace and main lines of duct work. Would it be sufficient enough to cut a hole in the return duct line and insert an adjustable air vent so it can be opened and closed as needed? I thought about doing this regardless so that the blower fan can pull warm air from the basement and distribute it through the house.

 

[brenndatomu]

I thought about doing this regardless so that the blower fan can pull warm air from the basement and distribute it through the house.

For most people that doesn't work.
And no I doubt that would guarantee the furnace couldn't pull negative pressure on the stove....not even 100% sure that's why they forbid the 2 together...

 

[kellygreen]

Hello,

the Caddy Advanced CR is still in work, with the price increase of many components we are putting some more time in cost reduction effort. Like it was mention by LogCabinFever the combo that will be offer is with a gas furnace, either propane or natural gas that would looks a lot like a series installation, but fully integrated.

Thanks,
Nick

I would pay anything for a combination furnace . . . . . . .

 

[brenndatomu]

I would pay anything for a combination furnace . . . . . . .

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[brenndatomu]

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[brenndatomu]

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[JRHAWK9]

I may be wrong, but I see combination furnaces kinda like all-season tires. Equally craptastic at everything they are marketed towards.

 

[brenndatomu]

I may be wrong, but I see combination furnaces kinda like all-season tires. Equally craptastic at everything they are marketed towards.

Yes sir!

 

[kellygreen]

I may be wrong, but I see combination furnaces kinda like all-season tires. Equally craptastic at everything they are marketed towards.

I've loved mine. I've used it to mostly burn wood. I burn about 15 gallons of oil a month during the heating season. I am dreading putting in a whole new system. I am leaning toward a Drolet Heat Commander with backup as an oil furnace or a ducted heat pump.

 

[kellygreen]

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View attachment 320552

Ah, thank you for these! I am 99.9% sure I am aiming for new equipment.

 

[dgwood]

I decided to put in a ducted Mitsubishi hyper heat heat pump and use my existing wood stove for wood heat. Might add a wood furnace later in parallel to the heat pump unit eventually since the old oil chimney will no longer be used now that I have the heat pump here.

 

[brenndatomu]

Ah, thank you for these! I am 99.9% sure I am aiming for new equipment.

Well, seeing as nobody makes a dual fuel wood furnace as of now...and that one I posted there was new (at least unused)

 

[LogCabinFever]

Yes sir

Yes sir!

Care to elaborate? What are the compromises that a combo furnace makes over two separate furnaces, other than having a single more complex unit? Lower thermal efficiency? Lower capacity? Lower output? Genuinely curious about this.

 

[brenndatomu]

Care to elaborate? What are the compromises that a combo furnace makes over two separate furnaces, other than having a single more complex unit? Lower thermal efficiency? Lower capacity? Lower output? Genuinely curious about this.

They generally don't burn either fuel very efficiently, especially on the solid fuel side.
The PSG Caddy was probably one of the better ones out there IMO. Sure hope they can get the Caddy Advanced CR to market...

 

[LogCabinFever]

They generally don't burn either fuel very efficiently, especially on the solid fuel side.
The PSG Caddy was probably one of the better ones out there IMO. Sure hope they can get the Caddy Advanced CR to market...

Well hopefully at least the wood burning still maintains decent efficiency. With all the price hikes, many people, including myself, are counting on the wood burner tax credit that the regular Caddy Advanced qualifies for.

Secondary fuel efficiency isn’t as much of a concern, since it functions mostly as backup heat.

Im curious how they’ll integrate domestic hot water with it too. One wonders if it’s possible to get too complex here.

 

[bholler]

Well hopefully at least the wood burning still maintains decent efficiency. With all the price hikes, many people, including myself, are counting on the wood burner tax credit that the regular Caddy Advanced qualifies for.

Secondary fuel efficiency isn’t as much of a concern, since it functions mostly as backup heat.

Im curious how they’ll integrate domestic hot water with it too. One wonders if it’s possible to get too complex here.

They absolutely did not maintain solid fuel efficiency in the past. But now they need to which is why we currently don't have any. Dhw is very easy to integrate just a dhw coil in the jacket somewhere. Or a separate tank with coils run through it

 

[brenndatomu]

They absolutely did not maintain solid fuel efficiency in the past

Most no, but the Caddy was no different on the wood side.

Dhw is very easy to integrate just a dhw coil in the jacket somewhere

Lamppa eliminated the DHW coil from the VF due to it supposedly causing issues with the efficiency/EPA testing...

 

[salecker]

The cheapest DHW is a good insulted electric tank

 

[Wood1Dennis]

My furnace is 2016 pre-2020 EPA version of the Caddy. I really like the set-up I have. Two units, a 97% efficient LP furnace and the really efficient Caddy wood furnace. They are in series, with the Caddy downstream from the LP furnace, the Caddy uses the LP furnace fan. Simple. Other than the foot print I see no disadvantage to this set-up. Both furnaces are great at what they do, no need to have a combo unit and the compromised efficiencies that are likely with a combo. My system was installed by a good HVAC contractor, unless something has changed I know of no problem with the series installation.....

Also, you mention that you can’t put in two furnaces in series. In the US, series installations are not permitted anyways.