Newley inserted fireplace insert - fan won't work - room fills with smoke, no air getting in

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Just installed a vermont castings montpelier fireplace insert. followed directions in the guide to warm the unit slowly, lit a small fire to heat up the pipe going up the chimeny. Smoke filled the unit and fire went out unless the door was cracked then it came back to life while smoke billowed into the room. Opened windows like other posts said for negative pressure - nothing changed. The unit is hot enough for the fire to ignite itself again, however the fan doesn't kick on blowing heat into the room. Directions say to test prior to installation, but later say the heat from the fire will kick it on.

How do you test the fan without a fire going?

It's not getting any air through the air intake. Door must be open.

It's a new unit, so nothing is clogging the hole to the chimney. If anyone has an other ideas, i'd love to hear them. Right now, trying to get the smoke out of my house!

 

[jotulguy]

sounds like a case of down draft to me. tell us what you did to start your fire. tell us about your chimney. did you do a full reline. i understand it is easy to get angry with the stove, but when they are given good fuel and good draft they work 99% of the time.

 

[Jerry_NJ]

Sorry to read of the smoke problems, I agree we'd need a lot more installation details to have any specific suggestions.

Welcome to the forum. I too am in NJ and I"d sure not want all my windows open, its been down right cold in Clinton Township.

I would guess the fan has a control switch...manual and automatic. My Quadrafire insert does. When in the manual position the fan is just "ON". I put the fan ON with manual when I start a fire, later I switch to automatic as I let the fire die out during the night, and thus the fan automatically shuts off.

I have to leave the door open a small "crack" when the fire is first started. Once the chimney gets warmed up I close the door and also shut down the rear air inlets my unit has, all air then comes in the overhead tubes thus making secondary combustion of gases possible. At that point the insert has so much "suction" I have to shut back on the overhead input to keep the fire controlled, not too hot.

 

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Thanks. Our chimney is straight up, about 23' tall, more than 3' over peak of roof, fully lined with ovalized liner kit. We started the fire by following manual directions: crumpled up some newspaper, topped it with some thin kindling. Put rolled paper on top toward back of unit, lit that to warm the chimney, then ignited fuel from the botton. However, it did not get air unless door was open. We let fire die out. About twenty minutes later the fan kicked on and cycled on and off a couple of times - finally shut off now. Air from blower was lukewarm.

That's all that we've doen so far. Thanks for any help you can offer.

 

[weezer4117]

Thanks. Our chimney is straight up, about 23' tall, more than 3' over peak of roof, fully lined with ovalized liner kit. We started the fire by following manual directions: crumpled up some newspaper, topped it with some thin kindling. Put rolled paper on top toward back of unit, lit that to warm the chimney, then ignited fuel from the botton. However, it did not get air unless door was open. We let fire die out. About twenty minutes later the fan kicked on and cycled on and off a couple of times - finally shut off now. Air from blower was lukewarm.

That's all that we've doen so far. Thanks for any help you can offer.

what kind of cap is on the chimney? it is obvious that you are having a negative draft, repaeat your initial process and keep the door cracked until the wood gets chared and flaming good and then see what happens when the door is shut. is the wood dry?

 

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I am not sure what the cap has to do with the functionality of the unit. To answer your question though I simply left the orgininal cap on the chimney and allowed the liner to rest against the side of the teracotta liner at the top of the chimney. As far as getting a fire going we repeated the newspaper and kindling attempts numerous times until the smoke in the room was too much to bear. When I closed the door the fire would extinguish within 30 seconds. There is simply NO AIR that appears to be entering the unit. Do you happen to know if the air comes from the room or from the chimney flew? It should not be this difficult to get an insert going. At this point I am extremely disappointed with the purchase of an insert.

 

[webbie]

99 percent chance your problem has nothing to do with the insert itself.

Are you making sure the chimney is started prior to lighting the paper and kindling? You can usually tell just by opening the door of the unit - if you fell cold air, then the chimney has reversed.

In order to start such a chimney, see these links:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/start_a_wood_fire/
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/QA_Templates/info/cold_air_coming_down_chimney/

until you get the chimney started and then very warm...you will not be able to succeed in your Quest for Fire.

 

[weezer4117]

I am not sure what the cap has to do with the functionality of the unit. To answer your question though I simply left the orgininal cap on the chimney and allowed the liner to rest against the side of the teracotta liner at the top of the chimney. As far as getting a fire going we repeated the newspaper and kindling attempts numerous times until the smoke in the room was too much to bear. When I closed the door the fire would extinguish within 30 seconds. There is simply NO AIR that appears to be entering the unit. Do you happen to know if the air comes from the room or from the chimney flew? It should not be this difficult to get an insert going. At this point I am extremely disappointed with the purchase of an insert.

the primary air comes from the room.

 

[jotulguy]

Is this an outside chimney? If so you may have to come up with a new start up plan for your install. I would recommend 2 things. First most stove shops sell fat wood. I would get some of that for your install. Second get a bag of hot sticks. Most Wawa's sell this wood in a plastic bag. Split that would up use the fat wood and try to start the unit again. You may just need a very warm fire to get it going.

 

[Lighting Up]

Tell us about your wood your burning ...what kind? How long has it been seasoning or split ?
md

 

[joel95ex]

Sounds like an intake problem. Without burning outside air, a fireplace is negative efficient. a newer house that is more air-tight will be even more of a problem. You should look into an outside air source for the unit as even after youget a fire going, it will actually have a cooling effect on the whole house since you will be consuming inside air and "new" air will be drawn in from leaks. you said it wasn't getting air from the intake, well some units do not have their intake open at all---it is a knockout for an intake pipe or called "outside air kit" .

 

[DanCorcoran]

Doesn't it have a primary air control lever? The manual should mention opening it, if it has one.

 

[offroadaudio]

compressed air or a shop vac to make sure there is no packing material or spider webs in the air intake?
remove stove and verify visually that the air lever is doing what it should do mechanically
wife's hair dryer to get stack nice and warm first

 

[joel95ex]

I just read the manual......if you have the correct installation, then I would try getting the chimney warmed up. the user here who suggested the chimney reversed is most likely correct. try the methods of heating the chimney and be patient. Also make sure you have the primary air control lever in the correct position...the fan wont come on until the thermistat tells it to anyway here is the manual pdf: mayber others can read and help more than me....good luck and let us know what happens

(broken link removed)

 

[weezer4117]

any updates? after browsing the manual it looks like the primary air lever shoud be all the way to the left, are you sure that is where it is? could something be in the way? does it cycle easy?

when you light the paper can you tell if ANY smoke goes up the flu? have you checked for any obstructions in the chimney?

 

[Huskyforlife]

You have to cap the liner at the top of the chimney. In addition either insulate the whole liner or you can take the cheaper way out and stuff some rock wool around the top before you cap it.

 

[DanCorcoran]

I wonder if OP was driven out of the house by the smoke and is unable to give us an update, or perhaps found a simple solution and is embarrased to admit it: don't be! We've all been there...

 

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It was late last night and was too frustrated to continue. Today I will remove the fiber baffle board at the top of the stove and check to see if the liner came free from the chimney adapter during installation. If I do not find anything I will be at a loss. I do appreciate eveyone's intrest in trying to help. I will post what I find. As far as the primary air lever, I did have it all the way to the left. When I move it back and forth it moves freely and sounds like it is adjusting something inside but I cannot see it.

 

[mjcarrjr]

Hi -

I've had the mont for about a year now -- i've had (on occasion) the same issue you've had -- lack of draft -- smoke back into the room.

Few posts further up -- somsone suggested some fatwood or some other very dry kindling. For me that's been the trick -- No newspaper -- real good dry kindling -- small fire for the first 5 to 10 mins -- leave the door slightly cracked and as soon as I see smoke drafting up -- i know i can start to load in some larger splits.

Even if you've got good seasoned wood -- still may want to consider some kiln dried "packaged" wood -- when the insert is really cold -- I'll usually start w/ one of those splits as the first split addded after the kindling. A Super Cedar (full disc) firestarter also helps.

 

[rover47]

When I start mine I always leave the door cracked until there is a good blaze going on in the stove. As the others have said good dry wood is a must for this insert. My blower tkaes about 30 min. to come on with a cold start. Check and see if there is cold air in the stove. My set up has never had that problem. My set up is an out side chimney lined just over two stories high. With a full liner. I would make sure the liner is attached to the cap.

 

[Jerry_NJ]

Does Huskyforlife have something? I don't recall ever seeing or reading about an installation in which the stainless steel liner ends as a blunt-end under the usual brick chimney flat rain cap, with wire mess assumed. When my QF 4100I insert was installed, I hired it done, there was never a discussion of doing that type end. In my case there was some reason to as my chimney is a three chimney structure and until I converted one to the insert with 6" ss liner all three chimneys had the same type cap. Now there are two with a flat rain cap and one with the usual round SS cap. My chimney is long too, about 30', but I have little or no problem with draft....as I said earlier, the draft is low enough on a cold-start that I leave the door open a crack (basically just not latched) until the chimney is warm.

 

[Huskyforlife]

FYI - When I was installing it, I tried firing my insert with a loose liner and it did not draft well at all. Set off all the CO detectors in my house. After cap and insulation I have never have a draft problem. With a loose liner I think it would have a very tough time getting up to temp and getting a good draft. Sort of like having no liner at all.

 

[begreen]

Good call. It sounds like the smoke is heading up the liner and then coming right back down the cold chimney pipe into the fireplace cavity. Kind of like having two, same-height flue stacks right next to each other.

 

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OK, I believe that I have located the issue. As mentioned above, it was something simple that I was not able to observe during the night hours. When I installed the insert the liner kit had pushed up into the chimney cap effectively "sealing" it off. This created a gossly insufficient draft. Once I corrected the problem I was able to successfully light my first fire. Thanks to everyone that responded to my post. I must say that this was the most prompt and considerate blog that I have ever joined in. Thanks again!

 

[[email protected]]

I do have one last question though. Is it common after a few hours of use for the air in the room of the insert to become a bit smokey? Looking at the lights on the ceiling I do not see any smoke but the air seems a bit heavy and my eyes are slightly irritated suggesting that there is a small amount of smoke in the air but not enough to see it. Anyone else have this too?