Newbie shop stove install, EPA stove..

[MAD MARK]

I agree 100% it is not code compliant. I am trying to figure out where you draw the line though.

So the natural gas furnace in the same area is ok, with flowing NG, but a premixed sealed gas can is not. Ok.
How about unused cans of air freshener or paint?

I know you state the code in about every thread on this, but cant tell if just because code Nazi or actually trying to help out
seeing how you have one in your "work space" as well.

I see the OP hasnt posted back either hopefully not scared off.

 

[bholler]

I agree 100% it is not code compliant. I am trying to figure out where you draw the line though.

So the natural gas furnace in the same area is ok, with flowing NG, but a premixed sealed gas can is not. Ok.
How about unused cans of air freshener or paint?

I know you state the code in about every thread on this, but cant tell if just because code Nazi or actually trying to help out
seeing how you have one in your "work space" as well.

I see the OP hasnt posted back either hopefully not scared off.

I am giving people the proper information so they can make an informed decision as to whether or not they want to violate code and take the risk. I never told anyone they shouldnt do it. Just that it is against code and they need to be aware of that.

I know my garage install is against code. And if anything happened because of it i wouldnt bother with a claim. But there is no way i would install a woodstove in the building we park the work trucks in and contains all of our equipment. That is heated with propane because the risk is to great if something did happen.

 

[Palongee1]

Thanks for all of the replies. I’m hoping this thing will burn better once it cools down a bit. If not, we can go from there.
As far as NFPA 211 goes,
I will talk to my buddy who is the Fire Marshall for the Fire Dept that I work for tomorrow and get a straight answer. My insurance guy told me months ago that my carrier will not insure new accessory structures with wood burning stoves in them, however, he told me that I’m grandfathered in since there has always been a wood stove in my shop. The 18” off the ground is new news to me. I don’t store fuel or vehicles in that building during the winter when I would be using the stove so I don’t know if it’s a problem.

 

[lsucet]

It is a contradiction. Going by those rules, we should not install a stove inside the house neither.
How closed to kitchen oven, furnace like mentioned before on basement. What about women hairspray, cleaning products for kitchen and bathroom, etc.

 

[edyit]

Palongee1 i have the smaller version of your stove, have you tried the AAS feature on it yet? i really like it

 

[bholler]

It is a contradiction. Going by those rules, we should not install a stove inside the house neither.
How closed to kitchen oven, furnace like mentioned before on basement. What about women hairspray, cleaning products for kitchen and bathroom, etc.

That is rediculous and you know it.

 

[bholler]

Thanks for all of the replies. I’m hoping this thing will burn better once it cools down a bit. If not, we can go from there.
As far as NFPA 211 goes,
I will talk to my buddy who is the Fire Marshall for the Fire Dept that I work for tomorrow and get a straight answer. My insurance guy told me months ago that my carrier will not insure new accessory structures with wood burning stoves in them, however, he told me that I’m grandfathered in since there has always been a wood stove in my shop. The 18” off the ground is new news to me. I don’t store fuel or vehicles in that building during the winter when I would be using the stove so I don’t know if it’s a problem.

The 18" thing is what canadian code requires and it ads some extra safety. But it doesnt change code compliance here. The fact that you dont store gas or vehicles there during the winter in my eyes without question makes it safe. But i honestly am not sure if that would be enough to meet code? It also doesnt make the garage door go away.

Again i dont see a safety issue as long as you are responsible about it. But i dont write the codes.

 

[Palongee1]

Palongee1 i have the smaller version of your stove, have you tried the AAS feature on it yet? i really like it

Edyit, I’ve played with it, I even pulled the rear cover off of it to see what makes it tick.

 

[edyit]

yeah, pretty much identical, i like it, pull it out to where you want your low air set at, quarter turn counter clockwise and walk away

 

[lsucet]

I have both. Madison and the big brother. I am planning to install the Madison when finish the shop. I do like the AAS. To use it on reloads is better to let the stove lose temperature with just enough coals to relight. On hot reloads don't work. BTW, that's my experience.

 

[rox3406]

It is a contradiction. Going by those rules, we should not install a stove inside the house neither.
How closed to kitchen oven, furnace like mentioned before on basement. What about women hairspray, cleaning products for kitchen and bathroom, etc.

Code is full of contradictions and also full of very specific verbage. Flammable vapor is well defined in a different area. The reason this code doesn’t affect in home installations in regards to natural gas propane hairspray and the like is because those are not flammable vapors. A vapor is the result of a flammable liquid evaporating. Nat gas and propane are flammable gases and not in the liquid state at atmospheric pressure hence not vapor. Hairspray is a flammable mist.
This is how code gets misinterpreted all the time. By blending definitions. Also farts are not vapor methane is a gas at atmospheric pressure.
If the building is listed on the deed as a residential garage it’s not compliant. If it’s an out building it’s ok unless you use or store flammable vapor producing liquids in it.
Agreed it’s rediculis at times but code is threre for a reason.
Wood stove in the shop fine. Bring the lawnmower in it not fine.
Build a bookshelf in there fine. Break out the varnish to finish it not ok.
This is my two sense.
And yes I have a stove in my garage attached to my house also.

 

[AlbergSteve]

Wood stove in the shop fine.

Again, from the Canadian code:

An appliance shall not be installed in a location where a corrosive
atmosphere, flammable gas or vapour, combustible dust, or combustible
fibres may be present. An appliance may be installed in a
(a) storage or residential garage, provided that the appliance is
mounted at least 450 mm (18 in) above floor level and protected
against physical damage; . . .

... so even in a "shop" there's risk, and here's why.

 

[bholler]

Code is full of contradictions and also full of very specific verbage. Flammable vapor is well defined in a different area. The reason this code doesn’t affect in home installations in regards to natural gas propane hairspray and the like is because those are not flammable vapors. A vapor is the result of a flammable liquid evaporating. Nat gas and propane are flammable gases and not in the liquid state at atmospheric pressure hence not vapor. Hairspray is a flammable mist.
This is how code gets misinterpreted all the time. By blending definitions. Also farts are not vapor methane is a gas at atmospheric pressure.
If the building is listed on the deed as a residential garage it’s not compliant. If it’s an out building it’s ok unless you use or store flammable vapor producing liquids in it.
Agreed it’s rediculis at times but code is threre for a reason.
Wood stove in the shop fine. Bring the lawnmower in it not fine.
Build a bookshelf in there fine. Break out the varnish to finish it not ok.
This is my two sense.
And yes I have a stove in my garage attached to my house also.

Some states have added wood shops or other excessively dust areas to the list of banned spaces. And honestly this makes way more sense to me than the garage ban. I would never consider acwood stove for my woodshop. Way to much risk there.

 

[Pertzbro]

I own an insurance agency, regardless of code or local jurisdiction, most companies now will not allow a solid fuel device in a building that is not the primary residence. Many also do not allow them in attached garages. The risk is too high for them. You will find companies that will allow it, or be silent on it.

Also, there are many many insurance agents that just make chit up. There is no such thing as being "grandfathered". Depending on what company you have - if they know you have a solid wood burner in a garage or out building - they will be asking many questions (frankly they ask questions if you have one regardless of location). You'll either get surcharged more premium for it or they will drop or deny coverage.

I have 5 company solid fuel burning questionnaires on my desk right now. Secura, West Bend, EMC, Auto Owners and Nationwide. Two of them flat out say Garage or Outbuildings are 100% ineligible. The other 3 have about 30 questions and require pictures and inspections.

Some companies also make you sign this:

http://www.glmutual.com/docs/GLMI/GLMI_Solid-Fuel_Burning_Disclosure_Form.pdf

Also from North Star Mutual (HQ'ed in Minnesota):

 

[jetsam]

Hey all! Newbie here writing from Idaho. The wood I have is a mix of poplar, willow, locust. The majority of this wood was split 10+ years ago and stored in a grain silo so I’m
Assuming it’s very well dried.

Be careful with that. 10 year old bone dry willow is going to burn like a blowtorch and the locust is one of the highest BTU woods out there. Keep a real close eye on stove temps and know what to do in the event of an overfire. You'll need to adjust your operation a little when you get into 'regular' wood that wasn't dried indoors for a decade.

P.S. If you find that all that bone dry locust is too spicy for you, please send it my way...

 

[Palongee1]

Code is full of contradictions and also full of very specific verbage. Flammable vapor is well defined in a different area. The reason this code doesn’t affect in home installations in regards to natural gas propane hairspray and the like is because those are not flammable vapors. A vapor is the result of a flammable liquid evaporating. Nat gas and propane are flammable gases and not in the liquid state at atmospheric pressure hence not vapor. Hairspray is a flammable mist.
This is how code gets misinterpreted all the time. By blending definitions. Also farts are not vapor methane is a gas at atmospheric pressure.
If the building is listed on the deed as a residential garage it’s not compliant. If it’s an out building it’s ok unless you use or store flammable vapor producing liquids in it.
Agreed it’s rediculis at times but code is threre for a reason.
Wood stove in the shop fine. Bring the lawnmower in it not fine.
Build a bookshelf in there fine. Break out the varnish to finish it not ok.
This is my two sense.
And yes I have a stove in my garage attached to my house also.

That is my understanding as well, it is shown as an outbuilding not a garage. My insurance guy says I’m good to go and I’ve been with him for 20+ years on the same property. I’ve got 17 years in as a firefighter so I do understand the value of keeping flammables away from heat sources. I’m not looking fed to the cold weather coming but I am. Hoping this stove will keep me in a T-shirt while working in the shop. Thanks again for all the tid bits.

 

[Palongee1]

Be careful with that. 10 year old bone dry willow is going to burn like a blowtorch and the locust is one of the highest BTU woods out there. Keep a real close eye on stove temps and know what to do in the event of an overfire. You'll need to adjust your operation a little when you get into 'regular' wood that wasn't dried indoors for a decade.

P.S. If you find that all that bone dry locust is too spicy for you, please send it my way...

It may be the fact that it is still warm
Here that I can’t seem to get the stove above 520 degrees, even with this 10 year old wood.. we will see when it chills out a bit.

 

[bholler]

That is my understanding as well, it is shown as an outbuilding not a garage. My insurance guy says I’m good to go and I’ve been with him for 20+ years on the same property. I’ve got 17 years in as a firefighter so I do understand the value of keeping flammables away from heat sources. I’m not looking fed to the cold weather coming but I am. Hoping this stove will keep me in a T-shirt while working in the shop. Thanks again for all the tid bits.

Just be aware that your local insurance guy is not the one who will be making the decisions if you have a serious loss. And those who are making the decisions arent going to know or care what your agent told you.

 

[Palongee1]

I own an insurance agency, regardless of code or local jurisdiction, most companies now will not allow a solid fuel device in a building that is not the primary residence. Many also do not allow them in attached garages. The risk is too high for them. You will find companies that will allow it, or be silent on it.

Also, there are many many insurance agents that just make chit up. There is no such thing as being "grandfathered". Depending on what company you have - if they know you have a solid wood burner in a garage or out building - they will be asking many questions (frankly they ask questions if you have one regardless of location). You'll either get surcharged more premium for it or they will drop or deny coverage.

I have 5 company solid fuel burning questionnaires on my desk right now. Secura, West Bend, EMC, Auto Owners and Nationwide. Two of them flat out say Garage or Outbuildings are 100% ineligible. The other 3 have about 30 questions and require pictures and inspections.

Some companies also make you sign this:

http://www.glmutual.com/docs/GLMI/GLMI_Solid-Fuel_Burning_Disclosure_Form.pdf

Also from North Star Mutual (HQ'ed in Minnesota):

View attachment 231655

I had a in depth talk with my agent about this. He told me they will no longer write policies for my scenario “but” because there was a stove existing in that building before they changed their rules that I was still good to go. Whatever that is worth, I guess I’d find out in the case of a claim

 

[Highbeam]

Whatever that is worth, I guess I’d find out in the case of a claim

That's all you can do. You're not hiding anything.

 

[lsucet]

It is funny how they mentioned under protection for physical damage, a vehicle like an example when actually is prohibited.

https://wett-inspection.com/installing-wood-stove-garage/

 

[bholler]

It is funny how they mentioned under protection for physical damage, a vehicle like an example when actually is prohibited.

https://wett-inspection.com/installing-wood-stove-garage/

It is allowed in canada whichis where they have wett inspections

 

[lsucet]

I see, I missed that part. CSA

 

[bholler]

I see, I missed that part. CSA

No big deal we all miss stuff at times.