I think we have yet to hear what kind of pipe will be in ground. All kinds of potential to lose most of your heat before it hits the house. Anything wrapped is more bad news - a closed cell foam product is a must.
Good luck.
John148:
Just for giggles I would post a sketch of your layout here and see what other options you have. Much experience here and could save you a few thousand bucks and much more over the length of your boiler life.
BTW-what outdoor model where you looking at?
Geez John, From the pex sizing, to acceptable flow velocities, to underground insulation, was this boiler professional in the pizza business before he decided to sell boilers? For our 205kbtu rated boiler, I used an 80% knockdown and sized lines and pump around ~180kbtu. Our loop is about a 370' round trip. Per the Taco datasheet 1 1/4" pex was marginal requiring higher velocities than preferred. I should have used 1 1/2" to reduce head and velocity, but the Taco 0013 does the job but we could have had a more efficient system. I appears there are lots of "professionals" out there that cut corners to keep the system price point low for unknowing customers. The Taco Pump Datasheet has very simple hand calculations and for about 1 hour of your time you'll know how to spot a "professional". All the guys here are giving you good advice... especially Chris's. I'm old enough to remember an old TV show.... "You have much to learn grasshopper." Take your time.
Geez John, From the pex sizing, to acceptable flow velocities, to underground insulation, was this boiler professional in the pizza business before he decided to sell boilers? For our 205kbtu rated boiler, I used an 80% knockdown and sized lines and pump around ~180kbtu. Our loop is about a 370' round trip. Per the Taco datasheet 1 1/4" pex was marginal requiring higher velocities than preferred. I should have used 1 1/2" to reduce head and velocity, but the Taco 0013 does the job but we could have had a more efficient system. I appears there are lots of "professionals" out there that cut corners to keep the system price point low for unknowing customers. The Taco Pump Datasheet has very simple hand calculations and for about 1 hour of your time you'll know how to spot a "professional". All the guys here are giving you good advice... especially Chris's. I'm old enough to remember an old TV show.... "You have much to learn grasshopper." Take your time.
Lol, thank you MasterHow many sq ft are you heating? I have gotten a lot of great advise here. I had another plumber come out and look at my existing propane boiler and he said its undersized for my sized house. Also I did find 1 1/2 ob pex for about $2.50 less than what I would pay for 1 1/4 ob pex so I'm thinking I should go with that size.
What is ob pex?
I used ob for oxygen barrier. Has anyone ever dealt with Outdoor Furnace Supply? That's where I'm looking to buy the 1 1/2" insulated pex.
Yes. I bought a sidearm heat exchanger from them. Great service and nice item.
But I would stay away from wrapped pipe.
If you really don't want to send most of your boiler heat into the ground on the way to the house, you will likely be looking at over $3000 just for the inground piping - maybe close to $5k although I haven't gone pircing it myself. This is one place you do not want to skimp or cheap out on - read the 'underground' sticky at the top of the forum if you haven't already, for more on that. Some have been there & done that & wrote about it so others can avoid a bad situation.
I've never heard of Badger pumps; but otherwise Taco, Grundfos, Wilo, and Armstrong probably cover about 99% of the pumps you'll find (Taco and Grundfos being the most common). Most will agree that Grundfos are on par or possibly better than the others, but I think all will do the job - you just need to make sure you know what the job is (ie. pump head and flow characteristics) and whether some type of "smart" controls (delta T, delta P, etc.) are beneficial.
Something is fishy about the product data that they show on the Badger website. If you take a look at their product catalog they mention that these are "private label pumps", but also include curves for them. You'll notice that the curves don't come close to matching the performance spec's they show on the product page. It looks like these pumps are standard Grundfos UP's.
It's just a model/family of pumps. (http://www.grundfos.com/products/find-product/up.html) When comparing, you really need to take a look at the pump curves to make sure they are capable of providing your ideal flow rate using the calculated system head loss. Although there may be slight variations in efficiencies and flow curves, it's really going to come down to the relative motor size. If you're looking to move around 30 GPM at over 20' TDH, you're talking about a much larger pump than these typical 1/25 or 1/12 HP circulators. That would probably require something in the ballpark of 1/2 HP, with prices probably starting around $500.
Hi John
When i did my underground lines i wanted to go with 1 1/4",the price was very high.So i went with 2 1" lines for supply and 2 1" for return.This gives some insurance if one of the lines springs a leak it could be taken out of the run and still have a 1" supply or return to use till summer when you can repair it.
Thomas
1.5 inch MINIMUM for the BTUH you mention. And still there may / will be a larger than normal pump. Remember! 1 gallon raised 1 degree is only about 8.5 BTU!! So if yu have a 20 delta, you will need to pump almost exactly 36GPM through this line to utilize the boiler's output.I'm installing a 360,000BTU outdoor wood/coal boiler. The insulated underground lines will have a run of 230'. I'm planning on using 1" supply and return. Does anyone know if 1" lines will be big enough? My house is around 4300 sq ft and currently is heated with 145,000 BTU propane and has 4 circulators and one that circulates thru the indirect hot water heater.
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