New York Restricts Firewood Transportation

[BrotherBart]

Probably cross breed with killer bees

Or those damned gypsy moths. Probably end up with a gypsy moth that moves with the speed of a wasp.

 

[fossil]

Probably cross breed with killer bees

Or those damned gypsy moths. Probably end up with a gypsy moth that moves with the speed of a wasp.

And then, no doubt, no matter what we decided to name it, it would rename itself Muhammed Ali. :wow: Rick

 

[BrotherBart]

And then, no doubt, no matter what we decided to name it, it would rename itself Muhammed Ali. :wow: Rick

"Float like a butterfly. Sting like a wasp." just doesn't have the same ring to it. But it would be the Greatest.

Won the first bet I ever made in my life when I called the round number when he would take out Floyd Patterson.

 

[fossil]

And then, no doubt, no matter what we decided to name it, it would rename itself Muhammed Ali. :wow: Rick

"Float like a butterfly. Sting like a wasp." just doesn't have the same ring to it. But it would be the Greatest.

Won the first bet I ever made in my life when I called the round number when he would take out Floyd Patterson.

Well, I was thinking more along the lines of "Float like a moth...sting like a wasp.", but you're probably right. Your parents let you place bets clear back then? Rick

 

[JustWood]

And then, no doubt, no matter what we decided to name it, it would rename itself Muhammed Ali. :wow: Rick

"Float like a butterfly. Sting like a wasp." just doesn't have the same ring to it. But it would be the Greatest.

Won the first bet I ever made in my life when I called the round number when he would take out Floyd Patterson.

Well, I was thinking more along the lines of "Float like a moth...sting like a wasp.", but you're probably right. Your parents let you place bets clear back then? Rick

LOL

 

[Poult]

[
???? What is the "blue line" anyway?

It's the border of the Adirondack Park. The state controls a lot of what you can do there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adirondack_Park


Poult

 

[Ken45]

As usual, they are closing the barn door after the horse is gone....

So many of these pests arrive from overseas. THAT's where we need laws and ENFORCEMENT.

As many have noted, it's going to be impossible to really track the movement of firewood. And certainly not someone who goes camping with a bundle of infested wood from home that's in the back of the truck or camper. Meanwhile, the commercial log length wood can move without restrictions?

As for "cutting down all the ash trees", that's impossible. We have over 100 acres here with many, many big ash trees. I couldn't possibly cut them all down.

Although it will be terrible to lose the ash trees, we've been through this before. The chestnut trees were wiped out a century ago, again by an imported invader IIRC.

Ken

 

[BrotherBart]

Your parents let you place bets clear back then? Rick

Very perceptive question. Dad, the Baptist preacher, found out about the bet and he was not amused. Even less amused when I got caught in a neighborhood dice game a short time later.

Raising me was not fun.

 

[JustWood]

As usual, they are closing the barn door after the horse is gone....

So many of these pests arrive from overseas. THAT's where we need laws and ENFORCEMENT.

As many have noted, it's going to be impossible to really track the movement of firewood. And certainly not someone who goes camping with a bundle of infested wood from home that's in the back of the truck or camper. Meanwhile, the commercial log length wood can move without restrictions?

As for "cutting down all the ash trees", that's impossible. We have over 100 acres here with many, many big ash trees. I couldn't possibly cut them all down.

Although it will be terrible to lose the ash trees, we've been through this before. The chestnut trees were wiped out a century ago, again by an imported invader IIRC.

Ken

Just over the border in PA they have road blocks going into campgrounds at the national forest. If you don't have a reciept from a local vendor your wood gets repoed by the wood nazis. If your a vendor and get caught on the road with a load they pull you over for a beat down. Like where did the wood come from and where are you going with the wood. Kinda like the gestapo.

 

[fossil]

Are they going to stop all the birds and other animals and ask them where they've been eating? Rick

 

[WoodMann]

How far will your Env. conscience let you haul firewood?

10.7 miles.............

 

[sullystull]

Is that because the end of that massive wood pile in your back yard is 10.7 miles away?

How far will your Env. conscience let you haul firewood?

10.7 miles.............

 

[jebatty]

Laugh all you want - say you can't do anything - and the only thing you can be sure of is that nothing will be done. The townships, counties, states and fed are US - if they're not doing anything it's because we don't want them to do anything. Enjoy your spoils, because spoiled they will be.

As for “cutting down all the ash trees”, that’s impossible. We have over 100 acres here with many, many big ash trees. I couldn’t possibly cut them all down.

They will be dead on the stump - so much for 100 acres of ash.

 

[Ken45]

They will be dead on the stump - so much for 100 acres of ash.

I realize that, sadly. It's not all ash by any means, although they are often the biggest and prettiest trees, I plan to concentrate on them for firewood, expecially ones near our trails. But we have more than I could ever use and a good portion of our land is too steep for me to harvest the trees. I've thought about getting a commercial logger in to take them out but I don't like the mess and damage they leave.

Hopefully the real damage won't occur until we are too old to care or maybe even live here anymore <sigh>.

Ken

 

[jebatty]

If you haven't already, and depending some on the current (or within the next couple of years) market for ash, you may want to talk to a consulting forester about a plan for your 100 ac. There likely are ways to do a harvest or staged harvests, with replantings of something other than ash, to capture the value that you have rather than taking the chance it will go to waste. Just a thought.

 

[woodconvert]

They will be dead on the stump - so much for 100 acres of ash.

Hopefully the real damage won't occur until we are too old to care or maybe even live here anymore <sigh>.

Sorry to say...they'll be dead before you know it. It's shocking how quickly it happens. I'm in south east Michigan and it's rare to see a healthy ash or elm tree. You can look at any stand of woods and you'll see tons of dead tops.

As for wood transportation here in Michigan...you can bring wood into "infected counties" but you cannot take any kind of wood out of those counties. I don't know anybody that has been popped by the fuzz hauling out but i've heard stories that the penalties are pretty substantial.

If your state is not affected....you really don't understand the scope of the damage and how rapidly it occurs.

 

[lvfd50]

So I guess this means I can't transport firewood between my house and my cottage anymore. Well I can't leagally since they are about 70 miles apart. Oh well see if they would ever know the difference. I don't see how anyone could enforce this except with commercial traffic.

 

[Ken45]

If you haven't already, and depending some on the current (or within the next couple of years) market for ash, you may want to talk to a consulting forester about a plan for your 100 ac. There likely are ways to do a harvest or staged harvests, with replantings of something other than ash, to capture the value that you have rather than taking the chance it will go to waste. Just a thought.

Oh it's not all ash, it's very mixed woods. Maybe 20-30%? But a good percentage of the biggest (18-30" dbh) and most beautiful trees are ash. We have oak, walnut, maple, hickory, hackberry and elm plus another dozen lesser species. I think most of the bigger stuff was logged out over the years. The majority of the larger trees that are left are in very steep terrain (climbing on all fours, grabbing at roots and saplings to pull yourself up).

Ken

 

[Jfk4th]

Big worry about nothing for the average scrounger. Who the hell is going to know if you don't admit it. Thats about the bottom line. DEC can be a major PITA for anyone ( especially you poor slobs in that chitty blue line) but they don't account for squat on the road. When was the last time you ever saw DEC out and about? Pure eye candy and really for businesses where they have to have a shipping manifest. I wonder how many of them will be carrying double books soon? Lie, lie and deny! or put in more recent terms, "Dont ask dont tell" just take it a step further and don't tell even if they ask. I would love to see them find some remote way to prove where it came from. I seriously doubt anyone is going to stake out your wood lot and follow you all the way home. Pure tripe!

Driz
I agree about with you about the DEC NAZIS . I have had more than my fair share of run ins with them. Here in western NY they have become a real presence in the last 2 years and you can hardly go a day without seeing them on the road. I believe NYS is hiring on more officers just to generate revenue. Total BS.

Just over the border in PA there is a ban on transport of firewood across townsip/county lines period. Get caught and big fines. I'm afraid it's coming to NY ,probably next year.

It's in our best interest to transport wood as little as possible .

???? What is the "blue line" anyway?

DEC Nazis.........Hmmmmmm.....I hope you are joking because I am a Police Officer with the DEC and as I understand the frustration here some people need to see the big picture. Yes it is a big "P-I-T-A" the 50 mile rule but as a fellow wood burner what the DEC is preventing is another outbreak like in other states. Yes it will be hard to enforce and I know warnings will be given out for a while so people should not get too angry here, education will be first priority. Be careful about thinking that we do not have ways of enforcing this regulation, I can assure you we do. Also be careful about saying that the DEC are hiring more officers simply for revenue. DEC Rangers and Conservation officers are here to make sure that rules and regulations are followed to protect the natural resources in New York. Yes , like any other Police agency there are some hard asses but most of us are good law enforcement officers and care about fish, wildlife, and the outdoors more than most. The DEC is made up of over 4,000 people from foresters, wildlife biologists, to Rangers and ECO's, so it is unfair to lump us all up into one word "NAZI". I have also saved over 50 people in my years on the job that were either lost and/or injured in some extreme weather conditions in the woods, so again do not attack everybody that is DEC.

Again I was frustrated when I got the email from my Lt. about the 50 mile rule, but after I thought about it, this is a step in the right direction. Look at all the people that would be out of business, jobs if there was a major outbreak that took millions of acres of trees. I for one can take a little hardship right now to ensure that I have enough wood out there to continue my favorite "obsession", wood burning and splitting/cutting trees.

Now this is a website that I love so please do not pelt me with nasty posts, I am not the boss here. I am sure our DEC Foresters can answer any question you might have in your Region in New York so go on the NYSDEC website and find your local forester

The Blue Line is in the Adirondack and Catskill Preserve, these areas total over 6.5 million acres of both public and private land. The DEC owns only about 2.5 million total acres

 

[jebatty]

Rules on transportation of wood/firewood, like most rules and laws, depend on voluntary compliance. I shudder when I think about a society that feels free to violate the rules and laws simply because its members think they won't be caught. With that thought, any "crime" or misdeed goes, if done in "secret." The wood/firewood rule has a good premise, is not perfect, and won't end the spread of invasive species, but it is a step in the right direction.

I am more issed off about our lack of will, as a society, to make the tough decisions for the long term better good, and instead to sacrifice the future for a few more bucks or convenience today. I want a better world for my children and grandchildren, and that means a willingness to give now so they can have more later, and they doing the same for theirs.

No, the wood/firewood rule won't guarantee a better future, but sure as water is wet a society bent on acting because it's members won't be caught will guarantee a worse future for us all, now and forevermore.

 

[Carl]

We had a bug infest elm trees and I remember back in the 70's when they said it would kill them all. Now 40 years later there are still some living but not many so I think the initial hit on the ash may be high but it will take years to wipe them all out. It is very difficult to control nature, if at all and we just have to deal with the problems as best we can.

I agree with JFK not liking the NY DEC called names. They are just doing a job assigned to them and the rules are made in hopes of protecting the envirrnment we live in. I have differing ideas on things but calling the other names is childish and doesn't do anything positive about the situation. The DEC does a lot more than issue citations and we need to think of them in that light, not just of the citation we may get for breaking the law. These officers (and other law enforcement) are putting their lives on the line so we may have a nice place to visit, camp, walk, and enjoy.

Just think what it would be like if we didn't have these officers trying to enforce our laws. In my opinion it would be a very unruly place.......lots more than it already is.

 

[Ken45]

We had a bug infest elm trees and I remember back in the 70’s when they said it would kill them all. Now 40 years later there are still some living but not many so I think the initial hit on the ash may be high but it will take years to wipe them all out. It is very difficult to control nature, if at all and we just have to deal with the problems as best we can.

OTOH, the Chestnut trees have been virtually wiped out, so I wouldn't assume that the ash borer will be no worse than the elm problems.

Ken

 

[Carl]

We had a bug infest elm trees and I remember back in the 70’s when they said it would kill them all. Now 40 years later there are still some living but not many so I think the initial hit on the ash may be high but it will take years to wipe them all out. It is very difficult to control nature, if at all and we just have to deal with the problems as best we can.

OTOH, the Chestnut trees have been virtually wiped out, so I wouldn't assume that the ash borer will be no worse than the elm problems.

Ken

The elm trees have also been virtually wiped out but it took quite a few years. That was my point, I don't think it will happen overnight. I read the article chestnut posted about the borer and it stated it would take 3-5 years to kill a tree. Not a pretty thought and I hope the scientific community can find an answere before they do wipe out everything.

 

[Jfk4th]

We had a bug infest elm trees and I remember back in the 70's when they said it would kill them all. Now 40 years later there are still some living but not many so I think the initial hit on the ash may be high but it will take years to wipe them all out. It is very difficult to control nature, if at all and we just have to deal with the problems as best we can.

I agree with JFK not liking the NY DEC called names. They are just doing a job assigned to them and the rules are made in hopes of protecting the envirrnment we live in. I have differing ideas on things but calling the other names is childish and doesn't do anything positive about the situation. The DEC does a lot more than issue citations and we need to think of them in that light, not just of the citation we may get for breaking the law. These officers (and other law enforcement) are putting their lives on the line so we may have a nice place to visit, camp, walk, and enjoy.

Just think what it would be like if we didn't have these officers trying to enforce our laws. In my opinion it would be a very unruly place.......lots more than it already is.

Thanks Carl,

For those in Western New York that hunt and fish and use the state lands, most people would see me as a professional and fair DEC Officer. I do not always agree with some regs but after seeing the big picture I understand why some laws are made. I was initially grumpy when I first heard the 50 mile rule because now I have to change where I get some of my wood too...But again I can make it work and overall this won't be as bad as first thought to most I am sure. I understand that people see me as the "Bad Guy" sometimes but like you said Carl if there was not guys like me out there some places would be ruined with abuse. I always tell people that state land is theirs to use not abuse and most people find that a fair line.

I know the DEC is not perfect, I have been with the Department long enough to know that and not see eye to eye on some things, but the DEC does a hell of a lot of good to protect the environment, and fish and wildlife.

Again I think this is a good first step and I hope most people think of their kids and the future of these wonderful forested areas and do the right thing. I see myself one day being able to enjoy the perfect burn with my kids and grandkids when I am old and talking way too much

 

[JustWood]

Big worry about nothing for the average scrounger. Who the hell is going to know if you don't admit it. Thats about the bottom line. DEC can be a major PITA for anyone ( especially you poor slobs in that chitty blue line) but they don't account for squat on the road. When was the last time you ever saw DEC out and about? Pure eye candy and really for businesses where they have to have a shipping manifest. I wonder how many of them will be carrying double books soon? Lie, lie and deny! or put in more recent terms, "Dont ask dont tell" just take it a step further and don't tell even if they ask. I would love to see them find some remote way to prove where it came from. I seriously doubt anyone is going to stake out your wood lot and follow you all the way home. Pure tripe!

Driz
I agree about with you about the DEC NAZIS . I have had more than my fair share of run ins with them. Here in western NY they have become a real presence in the last 2 years and you can hardly go a day without seeing them on the road. I believe NYS is hiring on more officers just to generate revenue. Total BS.

Just over the border in PA there is a ban on transport of firewood across townsip/county lines period. Get caught and big fines. I'm afraid it's coming to NY ,probably next year.

It's in our best interest to transport wood as little as possible .

???? What is the "blue line" anyway?

DEC Nazis.........Hmmmmmm.....I hope you are joking because I am a Police Officer with the DEC and as I understand the frustration here some people need to see the big picture. Yes it is a big "P-I-T-A" the 50 mile rule but as a fellow wood burner what the DEC is preventing is another outbreak like in other states. Yes it will be hard to enforce and I know warnings will be given out for a while so people should not get too angry here, education will be first priority. Be careful about thinking that we do not have ways of enforcing this regulation, I can assure you we do. Also be careful about saying that the DEC are hiring more officers simply for revenue. DEC Rangers and Conservation officers are here to make sure that rules and regulations are followed to protect the natural resources in New York. Yes , like any other Police agency there are some hard asses but most of us are good law enforcement officers and care about fish, wildlife, and the outdoors more than most. The DEC is made up of over 4,000 people from foresters, wildlife biologists, to Rangers and ECO's, so it is unfair to lump us all up into one word "NAZI". I have also saved over 50 people in my years on the job that were either lost and/or injured in some extreme weather conditions in the woods, so again do not attack everybody that is DEC.

Again I was frustrated when I got the email from my Lt. about the 50 mile rule, but after I thought about it, this is a step in the right direction. Look at all the people that would be out of business, jobs if there was a major outbreak that took millions of acres of trees. I for one can take a little hardship right now to ensure that I have enough wood out there to continue my favorite "obsession", wood burning and splitting/cutting trees.

Now this is a website that I love so please do not pelt me with nasty posts, I am not the boss here. I am sure our DEC Foresters can answer any question you might have in your Region in New York so go on the NYSDEC website and find your local forester

The Blue Line is in the Adirondack and Catskill Preserve, these areas total over 6.5 million acres of both public and private land. The DEC owns only about 2.5 million total acres

I don't have a problem with the 50 mile rule (or any regulation the DEC has for that matter) as it is in my best interest to keep hauling distances to a minimum due to HIGH fuel costs .

In order for you to understand why I used the term "Nazis" you would have to "walk a mile"and I'm not getting into it here. I have a friend at DEC and a friend that works for PA Game Commission. They both tell me how they don't agree with the way other officers handle stops,investigations and cases if and when they get handled at all. Sorry to lump you in as I know there are a few good ones but you know the old saying "one bad apple ............"