new w/ questions

[FirepotPete]

. This is our trouble area for heat in the winter. We can shut it off from the first floor via french doors, but all the cold air travels upstairs to three bedrooms.

I hate to tell you but the problem isn't cold air rising up to the bedrooms. The stairwell is on an outside wall, going up, towards a hip type framed roof. You are going to have a natural draft up that stairwell no matter the heat source and a natural down draft of cold air coming down those steps. You are drawing cool/cold air down, from the upstairs because there is little to no slope on the upstairs vertical walls. Any heat that goes up there goes straight to the ceiling. It's caused by the contraction and expansion of the cold and warm air. Something has to give or move, cold always wins.

You've got to move the air upstairs around, you will still have cold air present if the attic isn't well insulated, and will probably still have cold air coming down that staircase because of the lack of insulation that is present in the walls on the upper level. I know this, my house is the same way. The warm air will move up but it will only feel a little warmer, the warm air will not warm the vertical walls enough to stop the feeling of a draft in those rooms upstairs, or a cold draft coming down those stairs, cooling the floors on the bottom level.

A ceiling fan on the lower level will help distribute the air more, mix it with the warm air from the stove and the cold coming from the upper levels. You still will have to some how move the air around upstairs and try and warm those vertical walls before you will feel warmer upstairs. Also ceiling fans, or any type of fan slowly moving air upstairs will improve the warmth.

I must add that you have done a beautiful job on the house.

I also must add that I have NG here and right now I get corn for $130 per ton, 2 to 2 1/2 tons are the usual amount we use here. If using NG it would cost us at least $240 per month and not be as warm. And our NG furnace is 90% efficient Heil, all updated 5 years ago. And NG is very cheap here.

 

[kcdr18]

Thanks Pete. I agree with all you said and yes, those are the issues we have. Our furnace is also less than 5 years old and does a great job on our main floor. Our issue is the duct work to upstairs travels so far and none of the upstairs rooms have returns. Our thermostat is on our main floor, so we can't crank it up to warm the upstairs because then the main floor is too warm. There's one large return in the floor of the foyer...it's actually right next to where the stove will be. I'm hopeful this return will suck in some of the warm air. When we remodeled, we put ceiling fans in every room - including upstairs. Even in the winter I run them on low (wife hates it) to keep the air circulating. In the pics I posted of the staircase, we have a large light fixture above the first landing. In my opinion, I'd like to get rid of that light and install a fan to aid in air movement. Do you think that would help?

When we remodeled the house we did blow in insulation in to the attic.

My future plans are to 1) install a second/separate HVAC system in the attic to supply the upstairs. I would then disconnect the existing duct work to them from the basement system. And 2) blow in additional insulation from the outside. I'm not sure if I should do the entire house or just the trouble areas.

 

[FirepotPete]

Thanks Pete. I agree with all you said and yes, those are the issues we have. Our furnace is also less than 5 years old and does a great job on our main floor. Our issue is the duct work to upstairs travels so far and none of the upstairs rooms have returns. Our thermostat is on our main floor, so we can't crank it up to warm the upstairs because then the main floor is too warm. There's one large return in the floor of the foyer...it's actually right next to where the stove will be. I'm hopeful this return will suck in some of the warm air. When we remodeled, we put ceiling fans in every room - including upstairs. Even in the winter I run them on low (wife hates it) to keep the air circulating. In the pics I posted of the staircase, we have a large light fixture above the first landing. In my opinion, I'd like to get rid of that light and install a fan to aid in air movement. Do you think that would help?

When we remodeled the house we did blow in insulation in to the attic.

My future plans are to 1) install a second/separate HVAC system in the attic to supply the upstairs. I would then disconnect the existing duct work to them from the basement system. And 2) blow in additional insulation from the outside. I'm not sure if I should do the entire house or just the trouble areas.

OK, looks like you're on the right track. Only thing would be if you put a fan on that first stair landing it probably needs to be one with a light, building code will want that if you ever go to sell the place. Also beware of that cold air return by the stove. I actually had to block/remove one to put my stove where I wanted it. You may have to move that return, solid fuel appliances can only be so close to warm or cold air central vents.

LOL, and my wife hates the fans running also! I just remind her that it helps with the heat in the house and I'm usually good for a day or two.

 

[Edsson]

OK, looks like you're on the right track. Only thing would be if you put a fan on that first stair landing it probably needs to be one with a light, building code will want that if you ever go to sell the place. Also beware of that cold air return by the stove. I actually had to block/remove one to put my stove where I wanted it. You may have to move that return, solid fuel appliances can only be so close to warm or cold air central vents.

LOL, and my wife hates the fans running also! I just remind her that it helps with the heat in the house and I'm usually good for a day or two.

Is it better to blow cold air towards the warm air, or circulate the warm air to the cold areas of the house. I have a 2 story open concept first floor, ~2000 sq. ft. E2 pellet stove in the living room w/ ceiling fan. Room is 14X29.

 

[kcdr18]

I re-proposed swapping out that light above the landing with a ceiling fan to my wife...and let's just say I'm fighting an uphill battle.

My brick for the hearth pad should be in tomorrow. I'm hoping to have that done ASAP so it's ready for whenever I get the call about doing the stove install.

Now that I've chosen my stove, I'm anxious to get burning so I can see what effect it has on providing heat. I'm going to buy several cheap thermometers and place them around the house and in each upstairs bedroom so I can monitor the temps.

Here's my heat source in my garage. Just came across this pic from several weeks ago...

 

[FirepotPete]

I re-proposed swapping out that light above the landing with a ceiling fan to my wife...and let's just say I'm fighting an uphill battle.

My brick for the hearth pad should be in tomorrow. I'm hoping to have that done ASAP so it's ready for whenever I get the call about doing the stove install.

Now that I've chosen my stove, I'm anxious to get burning so I can see what effect it has on providing heat. I'm going to buy several cheap thermometers and place them around the house and in each upstairs bedroom so I can monitor the temps.

Here's my heat source in my garage. Just came across this pic from several weeks ago...

View attachment 169584

Those are some BIG pellets.

 

[kcdr18]

Tile is down...

 

[Jonkman]

Tile is down...

View attachment 169788

View attachment 169789

Looks nice. Can't wait to see it finished. Going with black venting? It would match your floor grate...or direct out the back so you don't see any venting pipe?

 

[kcdr18]

Plan is to do direct vent and possibly add black pipe just for looks

 

[kcdr18]

Hearth pad is done and ready. Trim is in place and Christmas tree is removed. Dealer said stove is to be shipped on 1/8.

 

[kcdr18]

Firepot Pete - question for you about whether or not to install an OAK. I asked the dealer about it when he gave me the stove quote and he didn't think one would be necessary. However, after reading several forum threads, it sounds like I'd be stupid not to have one installed.

You seemed to have a similar house situation as mine, so I wanted your two cents.

It's currently 30 degrees outside. Our foyer (future stove location) is 58 degrees. We have access to the foyer shut off via a set of french doors, so it's essentially unheated as is. On our main floor, the floors always seem cold. If you're sitting on one, you can almost feel the cold air moving around you. I'm assuming once the stove is installed we'll open the french doors while the stove is in use.

Thanks!

 

[Lake Girl]

the floors always seem cold

What's your basement set up? We had a crawl space under the front glassed in porch on our old house... caused the cold to extend into the basement and the floor in our living room. Spent quite a bit of time trying to insulate but materials used in the 80s are very different than what is available now.

 

[kcdr18]

I'd estimate 60% basement and 40% crawl space. We have a cellar door in the basement which leads to outside and it lets a good amount of cold air in.

 

[Lake Girl]

Sealing up those weak spots will do far more to keep those floors warm. The house we are in now is on a rock ridge so all crawl space. I have insulated and used foam to seal up some spots but needs more work. Just insulating along the rim joist makes a huge difference...

 

[FirepotPete]

Firepot Pete - question for you about whether or not to install an OAK. I asked the dealer about it when he gave me the stove quote and he didn't think one would be necessary. However, after reading several forum threads, it sounds like I'd be stupid not to have one installed.

You seemed to have a similar house situation as mine, so I wanted your two cents.

It's currently 30 degrees outside. Our foyer (future stove location) is 58 degrees. We have access to the foyer shut off via a set of french doors, so it's essentially unheated as is. On our main floor, the floors always seem cold. If you're sitting on one, you can almost feel the cold air moving around you. I'm assuming once the stove is installed we'll open the french doors while the stove is in use.

Thanks!

Put the OAK in. It will do many good things, prevent the stove from pulling cold air into the building is the biggest. Also consider what Lakegirl shared, exactly what I'd look at doing.

If you put the OAK in, make sure it has a 90* degree bend on the end pointing down. This time of year you won't need to worry but a screen to keep the insects out during summer. I just duct tape mine so I don't worry about the insects as long as the tape stays intact. In winter if the snow can build up and plug it make sure to keep it clear. Other than that you will be doing yourself a favor in the long run installing one.

 

[bags]

X2 with Pete. I would not install a pellet stove without an OAK. OAK's are good. That's just me but I understand what they are all about also. Some just don't get it. It also seems many dealers (not all) do not recommend OAK's. They don't get it either. Or they just do not want to deal with the little extra work involved.

I highly recommend an OAK!

 

[FirepotPete]

Hearth pad is done and ready. Trim is in place and Christmas tree is removed. Dealer said stove is to be shipped on 1/8.

View attachment 170231

Very nice job on the tile by the way. I know we looked at just getting a pre-made pad but opted for tile in the end and haven't regretted that decision for one minute. Safety, cleanup, durability and that fact that I got the nod of approval from ma'ma made it worth it!

 

[sweetczz]

So if the AE has the auto clean cycle and wall thermostat...both which seem to have lots of complaints on here, is the E2 a safer buy? Or is it too new of a model with issues?

Is the Hampton GC60 worth considering?

From my experience, search the internet for trouble shooting each product and see which one has the most complaints and find out what the complaints were. You might save yourself some Heartaches. MV are just poor technology and expensive repairs. I have yet to get sleep without constantly troubleshooting the stove to get it running. Parts are expensive and technicians charge around 150-250 an hour minimum 2 hours sometimes (and u need it because the stove keeps shutting down they have to wait around and watch it to fix new problems). Go Harman.

 

[kcdr18]

Install day. Very excited and anxious to fire it up and see how she performs.

 

[kcdr18]

 

[kcdr18]

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[kcdr18]

I'll post some feedback tomorrow...not in the mood to type tonight. I will say though, it's serving it's purpose and pushing heat upstairs.

 

[kcdr18]

I'll reference this photo in my status update...

 

[kcdr18]

OK, my first and foremost question is in reference to the photo I posted above. The stove is just through those French doors off to the right...the heat is doing a wonderful job of pouring upstairs. The temperature at the top of the stairs matches the stove temperature setting and all three bedrooms were noticeably warmer last night (outside temps were around 30 and stove thermostat was set at 72).

Just inside those doors, where I'm standing for the photo, it practically felt no different temperature wise. It seemed as if no heat from the stove was entering the room. Don't get me wrong, if that's how its gonna be - that's fine. I wanted the stove to heat the upstairs, but I assumed some of the heat would enter this room simply due to the French doors being left open.

So, here's my question. The stove was installed without an OAK because the adapter had not arrived yet. Are the adjacent rooms not getting the benefit of the stove's heat because of no OAK or is that not the case? Our house is old and has poor air flow due to lack of returns and their locations.

The stove has been on most of today and to see how it performed I turned our furnace down to 60. It's sunny and in the 40's today. I started the stove on high and set it at 74. I eventually dialed it down to approximately "medium" setting and it held the temp setting. I placed digital thermometers in each upstairs bedroom. The two closest to the big staircase were 72, the room furthest away was 70. Downstairs, the thermostat is two rooms away from the stove...that room was 66. Our kitchen/dining room, which are furthest away, was 64.

Today I did not have the furnace fan on auto...it was off. Last night I had the furnace fan on with it set at 68. When only the fan was on, it felt like it was blowing noticeably cool air out of the vents. None of our upstairs rooms have cold air returns. The only return for the upstairs is the one right next to the stove. We do have two stair cases, so the air is able to move some what.