New to burning, looking for guidance

[hambaloney]

I've spent some time measuring and inspecting the chimney. I dropped a camera down for those that are interested in seeing firsthand (apologies for the vertigo spinning).

From top-down, there's a clay liner 24" deep (outside dim. 8 13/16" x 13 3/8", inside dim. 7 1/8" x 11 3/4"). After that, the chimney expands out and has some sort of metal box liner. I don't have exact dimensions but definitely larger that the clay liner. That's maybe 15' deep. There's what look to be pins regularly installed on all 4 sides of the metal box. No clue what these are for. Then more clay liner, as far as I can tell, same dimensions as the top clay liner.. In the video you can then see an old thimble entrance, probably 10" down. I figured out that's what the discoloring on the facing of the chimney in the living room. At one time there was a thimble and has been bricked up. I believe it leaked at one point because there's a lot of staining. The clay liner looks to be in good shape, there is a bit of mortar slag, but not enough that I think it'll cause a problem getting a liner in (may depend on insulation). After that, there's a bit of a pit area where some garbage has accumulated. You can really see where the damper is so I may do this again with the damper open and a light placed at the bottom.

Height from top of rear facing flue on the Oslo to top of clay liner is 21'6".

My plan - get a 25' 6" SS liner. See #3 about insulation.

Couple more questions -

1) Based on my inside dimensions of the clay liner, I think I can use a 6" liner with or without insulation. I will have to remove the damper and enlarge the damper opening as it's closer to 4" currently, shouldn't be a problem. Any issues I might encounter with the clay liner?

2) What are the pins for? It's been suggested that there might be mortar around the metal box liner and the pins offer reinforcement or stability.

3) Insulation or not? Inside chimney, straight run (except at the damper), I think the dimensions will accommodate. Seems like people go either way with inside chimneys.

4) Anything I might have missed?

Thanks

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[begreen]

That is the first time I have seen something like this. It looks like a metal chimney repair spliced in. The pins "might" be holding insulation on the exterior? My gut says I wouldn't trust this setup at all. It would be worth a little wall surgery to check out the exterior of this metal sleeve a little better to understand what is really there. Note that there is also a crusty take-off a few feet above the damper. This might have been for an old stove connection. (now illegal) Without a doubt I would put in an insulated liner, maybe even DuraLiner for extra peace of mind?

 

[ColdNH]

Thanks for the replies.

ColdNH, I really like the look of your hearth. Any problems with the stove being set back into the opening?

The biggest concern right now is the hearth. It is not flush with the floor, as shown by these pictures. It's about 7/8" and then slopes down in relationship to the floor (old house, floors definitely not straight and level). I'm hesitant to tear up the wood floor without having a plan. With a modular hearth system ((broken link removed to http://www.hearthclassics.com/modular_hearth.php)), would it be possible to lay it on top of the wood floor and mortar it to the brick? The 3/4" trim in front of the bricks is going to be removed. I thought about purchasing a hearth pad from someplace like TSC and sitting the stove on it, on top of the brick. I think that would work although it might not be as eye-pleasing.

THanks

Thanks, I initially wanted the stove to sit further back in the opening, and it will fit further back, but then the side door wont open. I decided to pull it out far enough to be able to open the side door like 85 degrees because the using the front door for re-loading on this stove is terrible.

I would think that it wouldnt be too hard to custom build a raised hearth that sits both on top of your current hearth and your wood floor, without having to rip up or modify the floor below.

 

[hambaloney]

That is the first time I have seen something like this. It looks like a metal chimney repair spliced in. The pins "might" be holding insulation on the exterior? My gut says I wouldn't trust this setup at all. It would be worth a little wall surgery to check out the exterior of this metal sleeve a little better to understand what is really there. Note that there is also a crusty take-off a few feet above the damper. This might have been for an old stove connection. (now illegal) Without a doubt I would put in an insulated liner, maybe even DuraLiner for extra peace of mind?

I'll take a look this evening, but from the attic it's bricked all the way down as far as I can see.

I worded the crusty take-off as a thimble. I just made a revelation. That take-off is not on the same side as the fireplace. It faces 180 degree opposite. There is now a gas log insert on other side. Ugh.

For peace of mind, insulated sounds good. What is DuraLiner? I came up with this [1], comes in sections? Any advantage over single flex piece with added insulation? Any thoughts on smooth wall vs not?

[1] (broken link removed to http://www.northlineexpress.com/chimney/chimney-pipe-stove-pipe/chimney-liner/6-inch-chimney-liner/6-inch-duraliner-chimney-liner/6-x-60-duraliner-round-flex-chimney-relining-pipe-6dlr-60f-6dlr-60f.html)

 

[hambaloney]

Thanks, I initially wanted the stove to sit further back in the opening, and it will fit further back, but then the side door wont open. I decided to pull it out far enough to be able to open the side door like 85 degrees because the using the front door for re-loading on this stove is terrible.

I would think that it wouldnt be too hard to custom build a raised hearth that sits both on top of your current hearth and your wood floor, without having to rip up or modify the floor below.

Good insight on the side door. My Oslo is positioned so I have full access to the side door.

As far as the hearth, I'm wary of building on top of the current hearth as it would force me to use the short leg kit due to the chimney opening height being ~29".

Thanks!

 

[hambaloney]

Just got off the phone with Chimney Liner Depot.

6" smooth wall has OD 6.25" + .5" insulation puts it at 7.25" OD, too big for my opening dimension of 7.125".

The fellow I spoke with suggested I consider 5.5" smooth wall, netting 6.75" OD (comes with 6" Tee fitting"). He stated with smooth wall and insulation it should draft fine.

I could bump down to .25" insulation with the 6" for a net 6.75" OD.

Total height with Tee and cap will be around ~22 feet.

I'm at a loss here what the better option is. #1 priority is safety.

 

[Gary_602z]

MY understanding is you only need 18" of Ember protection in front of the stove. I could definitely be wrong though, the manual is vague if you ask me.

With that said, the front door on this stove is virtually useless, its only good for viewing the fire and cleaning the stove out. if you open the front door with a fire going expect hot embers, burning logs everything to fall out. it’s frustrating.

We had two similar problems, for the ember protection we just put down a hearth matt and never use the front door. short term solution, but i refuse to rip up the wood floors. I will eventually build a more sturdy hearth extender that sits on top of the wood floor. The floor gets warm in front of the stove but not enough to worry me, at all.

As for the mantle, I built a heat shield, had a piece of copper bent and i hung it with ceramic spacers from the bottom of the mantel, it definitely works and isn’t too obtrusive. Although I had a lot more clearance then you to start with. I also have the short leg kit.

View attachment 111083

Does the dog count as ember protection?

Gary

 

[begreen]

Just got off the phone with Chimney Liner Depot.

6" smooth wall has OD 6.25" + .5" insulation puts it at 7.25" OD, too big for my opening dimension of 7.125".

The fellow I spoke with suggested I consider 5.5" smooth wall, netting 6.75" OD (comes with 6" Tee fitting"). He stated with smooth wall and insulation it should draft fine.

I could bump down to .25" insulation with the 6" for a net 6.75" OD.

Total height with Tee and cap will be around ~22 feet.

I'm at a loss here what the better option is. #1 priority is safety.

Have you considered using the DuraLiner system?
(broken link removed to http://www.duravent.com/Product.aspx?hProduct=6)
http://www.dynamitebuys.com/store/cart.php?m=product_list&c=66

 

[hambaloney]

Have you considered using the DuraLiner system?
(broken link removed to http://www.duravent.com/Product.aspx?hProduct=6)
http://www.dynamitebuys.com/store/cart.php?m=product_list&c=66

I hadn't. Mainly due to thinking I need a flexible liner to navigate the chimney. Price is also a factor.

I have also look at DuraFlex:
http://www.efireplacestore.com/cpf-68220.html#qa

So many options.

 

[Nick Mystic]

With those 'pins' sticking out of the metal liner that is already inside your chimney I'm wondering if they are screws sticking through it. Some of them appear to be at seems in the metal where they perhaps hold sections together. At any rate, most of the insulated liners I've seen here at the forum appear to be soft on the outside and/or have a mesh covering to hold them on the flexible ss liner. With that sort of arrangement it seems quite likely you would have a lot of snags trying to pull an insulated liner down that chimney. With the tight fit you are talking about it seems you'd be snagging on just about every one of those pins/screws. Something to consider before you make an expensive insulated liner purchase.

 

[ColdNH]

Good insight on the side door. My Oslo is positioned so I have full access to the side door.

As far as the hearth, I'm wary of building on top of the current hearth as it would force me to use the short leg kit due to the chimney opening height being ~29".

Thanks!

Whats wrong with the short leg kit? thats what my stove has, looks ok to me?

 

[begreen]

I hadn't. Mainly due to thinking I need a flexible liner to navigate the chimney. Price is also a factor.

I have also look at DuraFlex:
http://www.efireplacestore.com/cpf-68220.html#qa

So many options.

Duraliner has both flex and rigid sections as well as ovalized flex to get past the damper, etc.. It costs more but you are getting more too, including an insulated, thicker walled system.

Agreed with ColdNH on the short leg kit, why not?

 

[hambaloney]

Whats wrong with the short leg kit? thats what my stove has, looks ok to me?

Duraliner has both flex and rigid sections as well as ovalized flex to get past the damper, etc.. It costs more but you are getting more too, including an insulated, thicker walled system.

Agreed with ColdNH on the short leg kit, why not?

Nothing is wrong with the short leg kit, actually. I like the standard leg kit because the stove sits up higher. Of course, if we build up a hearth, then the stove sits higher. So.. short leg kit should be fine. I jumped to a bad conclusion.

Re: DuraLiner. I spent some time on the phone with efireplacestore.com. They sell both the flex and rigid stuff. We priced out a rigid kit + flex section for going through the damper. It costs more, but it's already insulated, so no dealing with the insulation myself, no soft insulation/mesh getting snagged on the "pins" and the 6" rigid sections are 6 5/8" OD, so it's got plenty of clearance. Also, gives me the opportunity to extend the chimney higher to meet height requirements. I'm leaning towards that. Need to take some more measurements down around the damper area to make sure the flex oval stuff will fit properly with the Tee.

Thanks for the insight and help!

 

[hambaloney]

Have you considered using the DuraLiner system?
(broken link removed to http://www.duravent.com/Product.aspx?hProduct=6)
http://www.dynamitebuys.com/store/cart.php?m=product_list&c=66

Looks like dynamitebuys has slightly better pricing on the DuraLiner.

Here's the plan:

1. Dura-Vent 6'' DuraLiner Oval Tee With Round Branch With Cap (6DLR-OTRB-MG) - connected to Oslo, converts 6" round to oval
2. Dura-Vent 6'' DuraLiner Oval-To-Round Flex Pipe 36'' (6DLR-36ORF-MG) - threaded through damper, converts oval to 6" round
3. Dura-Vent 6'' DuraLiner Round Rigid Pipe 48" (6DLR-48-MG) - as much length to reach cap, probably will go beyond cap by 24"
4. Dura-Vent 6'' DuraLiner Extend-A-Cap Kit (round 13 x 18) (6DLR-KXC18-MG) - self explanatory

Will have to do some work on the damper area even with the oval, but much less than with 6" round.

How do I look?

 

[begreen]

Call Sean. It looks ok by me, but let's get a double check.

 

[hambaloney]

Begreen, have you or others had good experiences with dynamitebuys.com?

 

[begreen]

I have had very good experience with several orders from them, otherwise I would not recommend. So far the piping for 5 orders has been shipped without problems, no dings, dents or wrong pipe.

 

[hambaloney]

I have had very good experience with several orders from them, otherwise I would not recommend. So far the piping for 5 orders has been shipped without problems, no dings, dents or wrong pipe.

Great, thanks for the report.

More on the Oval to Round: There are 2 versions - standard and heavy-duty, neither is insulated (both say used with DuraLiner ProMesh and ProFoil). Thoughts? Can't seem to find the ProMesh/ProFoil on the dynamitebuys website. I think I'll call them tomorrow.

 

[Ram 1500 with an axe...]

If the dog isn't worried about being burned up to little pieces, then I think your ok....

 

[dafattkidd]

I have had very good experience with several orders from them, otherwise I would not recommend. So far the piping for 5 orders has been shipped without problems, no dings, dents or wrong pipe.

I have had great service with Sean as well. He recently sent me an email saying he launched http://www.woodstovepro.com/ and may be phasing out dynamitebuys.com

Sean is a knowledgeable dude.