New stove advice, I did my research!

[jetsam]

T
If you mean insulating the firebox and adding a block off plate I'm sure you'll be glad you did. I was measuring some very high temps on the outside brick, especially at the level of the smoke shelf. Big useless heat sink that was. Stuffed full w/ Roxul now and metal plate added which made quite a bit of difference in heat output and liner performance (cleanliness) even while cutting back on the air.

This summer, I am going to do what mellow did in this thread. After some experimentation, he wound up making a blockoff plate with Roxul on top, insulating the firebox with Roxul, and putting Durock all the way around the firebox to lower airflow through the Roxul. He reported great success with the finished product.

I do not think I will paint mine, but he went the extra mile and it looks great.



(This is his photo from the thread linked above.)

 

[jatoxico]

This summer, I am going to do what mellow did

I have referred several people to Mellow's thread since he did such a good job of documenting his work and temps. I don't recall off the top of my head exactly what temps I recorded before and after (thread is here somewhere) but was about 50 deg above ambient before insulating. Well worth the effort. I had less room for insulating the actual firebox but that's not where I was recording the largest heat loss anyway.

 

[Clydeburner]

Yea I measured my brick with IR gun, outside temp -2°, brick surface 2.5° to 5°. Not bad but still losing heat, I too want to durock and hope to see no lose

 

[jetsam]

Yea I measured my brick with IR gun, outside temp -2°, brick surface 2.5° to 5°. Not bad but still losing heat, I too want to durock and hope to see no lose

Haha that's nuts, I have a 70° variance at one spot in the chimney. I bet my burn times improve next year.

Wondering if it's worth pouring the chimney around the liner full of vermiculite too. Will probably see how the first project works out, and do that if I am still losing a lot of heat.

 

[Clydeburner]

Haha that's nuts, I have a 70° variance at one spot in the chimney. I bet my burn times improve next year.

Wondering if it's worth pouring the chimney around the liner full of vermiculite too. Will probably see how the first project works out, and do that if I am still losing a lot of heat.

That's could be a mess of you ever had to pull the chimney for any reason, maybe roxul insulation under the top plate 8" or more and the bottom. It will create a locked air space as an insulator to help keep flue warm

 

[Xtrl9]

This might be a stupid question, but I have a damper for the fireplace in there now that will probably not allow a 6" liner + 0.5" insulation to pass through, if I take out the steel damper what do I do about the opening?

 

[begreen]

https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/why-damper-seal-is-needed/

 

[Xtrl9]

https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/why-damper-seal-is-needed/

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/making_a_block_off_plate/ is not redirecting properly by the way. I get that I need to lay it out on cardboard first but my question is more about cutting out/removing the steel that's up there now?

 

[begreen]

Thanks for catching that. I fixed it:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...ock-off-plate-for-a-masonry-fireplace.147679/

Cutting the damper can be done with a cut off wheel, hacksaw, torch, etc.. Or sometimes the whole assembly can be unbolted and removed.

 

[bholler]

Wondering if it's worth pouring the chimney around the liner full of vermiculite too. Will probably see how the first project works out, and do that if I am still losing a lot of heat.

You don't want to do that with an insert especially not just with vermiculite. Just insulate with wrap. We pour in standalone chimneys often but almost never fireplaces with inserts

 

[Xtrl9]

Thanks for catching that. I fixed it:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...ock-off-plate-for-a-masonry-fireplace.147679/

Cutting the damper can be done with a cut off wheel, hacksaw, torch, etc.. Or sometimes the whole assembly can be unbolted and removed.

That was my plan, but 2 things have me concerned, one it looks like its nice and coated in flammable creosote right now, and 2, then I'll have a giant hole in my living room for water and down drafts...wait till winter is over?

Still hoping somebody can weigh in on which flex liner. I'm not sure Olympia will sell directly to me, and I read here recently somebody had a problem with their Rockford liner?

 

[OhioBurner©]

Also, my place is right around 2000 sq. ft; which includes part of the basement that's finished I believe, So if I'm cutting the basement out of the picture I could get a stove for say 1500 sq ft? Then I still have the problem that I'd have to cut down all my firewood. Looking at free standing stoves that accept logs 22" long they are for 3000 sq ft and I'd just be running it on low and end up clogging my new liner.

This sounds like a good setup for an Ideal Steel btw, should be able to vent within the fireplace height with its adjustable legs set low, and also can take 22" logs e/w I believe. Should be able able to heat that space well, and burn pine too with its low burn capability. Good deal on em right now too! Princess insert would also be great if it fits but having your closest dealer so far away kind of defeats the benefit of buying local.

 

[Xtrl9]

Thanks for catching that. I fixed it:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/making-a-sheet-metal-block-off-plateI-for-a-masonry-fireplace.147679/

Cutting the damper can be done with a cut off wheel, hacksaw, torch, etc.. Or sometimes the whole assembly can be unbolted and removed.

Ahh what I didn't understand until rereading today is the block off plate will stop water and down drafts because its lower than the damper; that and I don't have to cut the hole in it until I do the liner. High temp rtv will work for the silicone correct? Fireblock caulk?

 

[bholler]

Ahh what I didn't understand until rereading today is the block off plate will stop water and down drafts because its lower than the damper; that and I don't have to cut the hole in it until I do the liner. High temp rtv will work for the silicone correct? Fireblock caulk?

I would not cut anything till you have the stove and liner there. The blockoff plate is not to stop water that should be done at the top of the chimney. As far as liners go we always use heavywall liners. there are allot of good manufacturers out there other than olympia for them. Really the only type i would not recommend it the 2ply lightwall liners they just dont hold up well at all

 

[begreen]

That was my plan, but 2 things have me concerned, one it looks like its nice and coated in flammable creosote right now, and 2, then I'll have a giant hole in my living room for water and down drafts...wait till winter is over?

Still hoping somebody can weigh in on which flex liner. I'm not sure Olympia will sell directly to me, and I read here recently somebody had a problem with their Rockford liner?

There should be no hole for rain or cold to come down. The flue cap, top cap and storm collar prevent this. The insulated block-off plate will control cold air seepage when the insert is not burning.

 

[Xtrl9]

This is from the last snow but you can just barely see the cap. Its terracotta with rectangular steel caps held on by screws that are just run up against the terracotta. so the theory on that is the "cap" should extend beyond the flue enough to stop dripping, and the flue extends past the chimney mortar. So that covers water pooling and running in, and water as previously mentioned coming in from the top, but what about when its raining sideways?
Its not uncommon for winds to gust 20 mph at my house when there isn't a forecast for winds beyond 5mph. Part of living on the side of the mountain.

Thanks to everyone for your input. I've got a pretty good idea about what I want to do; I think I'm going to get the roxul and some micore and make an insulated fireplace. I thought about the size of the chimney and decided that it would suck up so much heat to even make a dent in the temp that I'm going to try to keep it all in the air, inside my house I'll see what they come up with Friday, but it sounds like if I want a block off plate insulated and save on a liner by doing it myself the only thing left is to slide big clyde back in the hole and hook him up to to liner.

 

[bholler]

So that covers water pooling and running in, and water as previously mentioned coming in from the top, but what about when its raining sideways?

When you put a liner in it will come with a top plate that seals the top all but the liner opening and it will have its own cap. Yes occasionally a small amount of water may make it into the liner but it will end up in the stove and the block off plate will not be affected.

 

[Xtrl9]

When you put a liner in it will come with a top plate that seals the top all but the liner opening and it will have its own cap. Yes occasionally a small amount of water may make it into the liner but it will end up in the stove and the block off plate will not be affected.

I was referring to the set up as is, where all I have is a cap on the flue, if/when I do cut the damper I was worried about rain going into through the grated cap I currently have. I'm probably going to leave it the hell alone until I can afford to get everything in my hands. knowing exact dimensions and profile of the insert will help me make a better insulated fireplace/blockoff plate, and finding out where the liner will come through the plate will be much easier once its in there. I will most likely have the existing flue cleaned professionally as I don't see the point of buying the brush to clean the flue and only clean it once (and they have 99 of my dollars). Or am I misunderstanding that the liner set up may still require cleaning of the terracotta flue?

 

[bholler]

I was referring to the set up as is, where all I have is a cap on the flue, if/when I do cut the damper I was worried about rain going into through the grated cap I currently have.

the damper is not stopping any water either. And yes as i said before i would not cut anything till you have the stove and liner there

 

[Xtrl9]

So the fellow came out from the local stove store. He didn't have his equipment to test the draft, took some measurements and came to a "flat fee" $2500 dollar chimney liner install and $3500 stove price. He said he was pretty sure the "Sale price" on hearthstone.com is the tax credit but I should call the office and find out and maybe I could snag a floor model they are phasing out for a nice discount. Their install actually did include a block off plate, but no insulating the fireplace.

If I just buy the stove, with blower, do I need a trim piece to fit over the opening for any reason other than it might look nice?