New Member New Harman p38 Big problems

[ChandlerR]

Wow, I agree...That's a lot of work to start a stove. I put a handful of pellets in my burn pot, squirt some gel on it, light it, close the door and push "start" Done. Stove is putting out heat in under 10 minutes. I actually feel badly saying this! I would be very, very, upset if I had to do what some of you guys have done to start the stove....wow!

Chan

 

[Nick857]

The best information I read on this site was to mix the gel and pellets in a cup then dump them into the stove. I had a lot of trouble lighting our p38 at first but that helped a lot. Before that I was just spraying the gel in as the owners manual shows and that almost never worked for me.

 

[MCPO]

I`m on my third season with a P-38 and mine is not the easiest stove to manually light with gel.
However after much experimenting I concluded that the 91% alcohol ($2.49 per quart Wal mart) to be the most reliable (and quite safe) to use with the stove. It really isn`t any more flammable than the alcohol gel especially when most of the excess is drained off before dumping into the pot . Just light it shortly after and not let it sit for too long before lighting because the vapors could build up within the firebox and cause flashing when lighting . I`ve not yet experienced any flashing from the vapors.
If the combustion fan is running this shouldn`t even be a problem anyway since the vapors are evacuated.
Here`s my reliable and safe lighting method:
Scrape out burn pot remains of previous fire, turn the heat dial to # 2-3 , verify the combustion fan starts, dump in a cup of alcohol / pellet mix , light it and close the door. After 5 -15 min the blower fan should come on.
.

 

[erollins]

Have you tried a different brand or even different batch of pellets for starting the stove? Not that I have any experience with pellet stoves, but when the wood stoves I have experience with don't burn well I first consider the wood I am using. I use different wood to start a fire than to produce a lot of heat, or hold the fire overnight, so shouldn't that apply to pellets as well? Poor quality, damp, or green wood will burn in a roaring fire, but won't light with a match.

 

[vvvv]

alcohol, a flammable liquid @ $3/qt has been mentioned so i'll add k2 @ 3$/gal..........what i do, because of my wizdome, is dangerous? but easy! pm me if u wanna talk= long story & i hate to type

Pook,

Its a brandy new stove and still has a warranty! Instant "void" written right in the manual.

Recommending a big "BOOM" is a no-no too! We know your a trained pro, But! :red:

i think warranty specifies NO FLAMMABLE LIQUIDS . the exaggerated pic simply states that uve never actually tried k2..another bias?

 

[tgloersen]

My Auto igniter broke on my H. P-68 a couple of years ago. So i just take a couplee hand-fulls of pellets and throw them in the burn pot, then i take a soldering torch and light them with that, get a nice flame going close the door and away it goes. Works pretty good and i don't have to buy fluid.

Then agin is i just get off my lazy butt, i can fix the auot-igniter..which would make life easier. ;-)

 

[DAKSY]

Since you do in fact have an outside air kit, is it at all possible your inexperienced installer didnt remove the insulation disc in the intake of the passthru?

+1. Pull the O/S air.

 

[smwilliamson]

Since you do in fact have an outside air kit, is it at all possible your inexperienced installer didnt remove the insulation disc in the intake of the passthru?

+1. Pull the O/S air.

x2

 

[jtakeman]

alcohol, a flammable liquid @ $3/qt has been mentioned so i'll add k2 @ 3$/gal..........what i do, because of my wizdome, is dangerous? but easy! pm me if u wanna talk= long story & i hate to type

Pook,

Its a brandy new stove and still has a warranty! Instant "void" written right in the manual.

Recommending a big "BOOM" is a no-no too! We know your a trained pro, But! :red:

i think warranty specifies NO FLAMMABLE LIQUIDS . the exaggerated pic simply states that uve never actually tried k2..another bias?

Don't need to try K2. I use a propane torch w/map gas and no "BOOM"! This time yep, I'm Biased! ;-P

 

[vvvv]

alcohol, a flammable liquid @ $3/qt has been mentioned so i'll add k2 @ 3$/gal..........what i do, because of my wizdome, is dangerous? but easy! pm me if u wanna talk= long story & i hate to type

Pook,

Its a brandy new stove and still has a warranty! Instant "void" written right in the manual.

Recommending a big "BOOM" is a no-no too! We know your a trained pro, But! :red:

i think warranty specifies NO FLAMMABLE LIQUIDS . the exaggerated pic simply states that uve never actually tried k2..another bias?

Don't need to try K2. I use a propane torch w/map gas and no "BOOM"! This time yep, I'm Biased! ;-P

takes me well under 1 min to light & walk away= sawdut cup+handfull of pellets+tsp k2+lit crumpled newspaper+ placing coverplate..........what u got?

 

[MCPO]

alcohol, a flammable liquid @ $3/qt has been mentioned so i'll add k2 @ 3$/gal..........what i do, because of my wizdome, is dangerous? but easy! pm me if u wanna talk= long story & i hate to type

Pook,

Its a brandy new stove and still has a warranty! Instant "void" written right in the manual.

Recommending a big "BOOM" is a no-no too! We know your a trained pro, But! :red:

i think warranty specifies NO FLAMMABLE LIQUIDS . the exaggerated pic simply states that uve never actually tried k2..another bias?

Don't need to try K2. I use a propane torch w/map gas and no "BOOM"! This time yep, I'm Biased! ;-P

takes me well under 1 min to light & walk away= sawdut cup+handfull of pellets+tsp k2+lit crumpled newspaper+ placing coverplate..........what u got?

The torch method does not work good in my Harman P38 , It takes too long to get going and the smell permeates the air with the door open for that long. K2 works but not quite as good or reliable as alcohol ,at least in my stove.
My #2 choice is charcoal lighter fluid, no smell, no flashing or mini explosions.
We have to conclude that no one method or starting media is suited best for each of us or our particular stove since there are varying conditions in each of our installations. One has to experiment with his/her own stove to determine what works best .

 

[jtakeman]

alcohol, a flammable liquid @ $3/qt has been mentioned so i'll add k2 @ 3$/gal..........what i do, because of my wizdome, is dangerous? but easy! pm me if u wanna talk= long story & i hate to type

Pook,

Its a brandy new stove and still has a warranty! Instant "void" written right in the manual.

Recommending a big "BOOM" is a no-no too! We know your a trained pro, But! :red:

i think warranty specifies NO FLAMMABLE LIQUIDS . the exaggerated pic simply states that uve never actually tried k2..another bias?

Don't need to try K2. I use a propane torch w/map gas and no "BOOM"! This time yep, I'm Biased! ;-P

takes me well under 1 min to light & walk away= sawdut cup+handfull of pellets+tsp k2+lit crumpled newspaper+ placing coverplate..........what u got?

The torch method does not work good in my Harman P38 , It takes too long to get going and the smell permeates the air with the door open for that long. K2 works but not quite as good or reliable as alcohol ,at least in my stove.
My #2 choice is charcoal lighter fluid, no smell, no flashing or mini explosions.
We have to conclude that no one method or starting media is suited best for each of us or our particular stove since there are varying conditions in each of our installations. One has to experiment with his/her own stove to determine what works best .

Indeed, Do what works for you. Pook the map gas/torch is about 30 seconds with my arm in the stove. Close door walk away. (What's even easier is the auto igniter. I need to to nada!) But it didn't work on the P38. Soaking the pellets in gell is what my sis has gotten used too! I bought a case for them a xmas. Should last many seasons and it works for them!

 

[vvvv]

alcohol, a flammable liquid @ $3/qt has been mentioned so i'll add k2 @ 3$/gal..........what i do, because of my wizdome, is dangerous? but easy! pm me if u wanna talk= long story & i hate to type

Pook,

Its a brandy new stove and still has a warranty! Instant "void" written right in the manual.

Recommending a big "BOOM" is a no-no too! We know your a trained pro, But! :red:

i think warranty specifies NO FLAMMABLE LIQUIDS . the exaggerated pic simply states that uve never actually tried k2..another bias?

Don't need to try K2. I use a propane torch w/map gas and no "BOOM"! This time yep, I'm Biased! ;-P

takes me well under 1 min to light & walk away= sawdut cup+handfull of pellets+tsp k2+lit crumpled newspaper+ placing coverplate..........what u got?

The torch method does not work good in my Harman P38 , It takes too long to get going and the smell permeates the air with the door open for that long. K2 works but not quite as good or reliable as alcohol ,at least in my stove.
My #2 choice is charcoal lighter fluid, no smell, no flashing or mini explosions.
We have to conclude that no one method or starting media is suited best for each of us or our particular stove since there are varying conditions in each of our installations. One has to experiment with his/her own stove to determine what works best .

Indeed, Do what works for you. Pook the map gas/torch is about 30 seconds with my arm in the stove. Close door walk away. (What's even easier is the auto igniter. I need to to nada!) But it didn't work on the P38. Soaking the pellets in gell is what my sis has gotten used too! I bought a case for them a xmas. Should last many seasons and it works for them!

& ure still inbounds with the NO FLAMMABLE LIQUIDS ! so u win but i start my stove 1 or 2 times a day & mapp gas costs?

 

[Lousyweather]

dont forget, dudes and dueettes, that there has been a circuitboard revision for the P38 fairly recently, and we might be dealing with an improper dip switch setting as well (these new settings are different than previous ones).

Since you do in fact have an outside air kit, is it at all possible your inexperienced installer didnt remove the insulation disc in the intake of the passthru?

Also, I dont agree that the door should be left open after lighting....light it, close the door. if you have to puit it in test mode once or twice, do so....I outlined this procedure earlier. Other than the alcohol thing, his procedure is quite good and sound. I dont like using straight alcohol due to the flammability aspect....the available gels usually are somewhat retarded so they dont flare up as much.......alcohol is very flammable, and could result in fire issues if used not carefully......

As i said earlier, there could actually be a bad part in the unit, and it would be REALLY NICE to see a draft reading on this thing.......again, your dealer should have done this upon install......not that it helps, and I feel your pain, but the dealer is at least half of the stove-buying equation. They should be willing to check this thing out....even thought the P38 is non-autoigniting, it should be light-able. Usually the lighting issues with these things are the customer doing something wrong (tho im sure likely not in your case)....we had a customer using very little gel in one......they'd go to light it and the gel would burn out before the unit could get up to temperature, so, it wouldnt feed or stay lit.

Also, dont forget to close the front door, the ash door, and the hopper lid....the p38 WILL NOT feed with any one of the above open.

In answer to your question about how to articulate these issues to te "repairman", I would insist on a draft test, see what the readings are, and go from there. The circuitboard might be at fault, so, he ought to bring another with him (any dealer worth their salt keeps extra anyhow). The vac switch RARELY fails.....VERY rarely..........ever so rarely (Im saying here its probs not your issue).....

let us know! We'll get this figured out.

therer are no dip switches on the p38 circuit board.

check out the latest technical newsletter, dated 9/28/2010, could be a typo, but bullet #2 under P38 mentions dipswitches......havent seen any yet, but there could be dipswitches on them.....now I have to call harman and find out...stay tuned

 

[Delta-T]

just an edit to my previously posted method for lighting the P-38....you could close the door if it makes you uncomfortable, or fills you house with the smell of burning. Its not hard stuff, but it does take some successful lights to know what you're looking for, to know you're going to be successful, hmmm, thats kinda circular logic isn't it. I've never gotten any smoke form this method (as the only thing really burning for the first minute or so is alcohol vapor. I do like the torch too, but thats not for everyone.

 

[ducker]

I go with the torch method; and have for the past 2 years . Love it. I don't mind the smell of the burning pellets, as I sometimes miss out of my old wood burning stove

A couple of handfuls of pellets, torch on it for 1-2 minutes. close the door - done.

I'm on the same torch that I originally bought, and starting my 3rd season with it.

 

[bayfeet]

propane torch for my p38, works like a charm, feeding pellets in less than five minutes. ed

 

[summit]

dont forget, dudes and dueettes, that there has been a circuitboard revision for the P38 fairly recently, and we might be dealing with an improper dip switch setting as well (these new settings are different than previous ones).

Since you do in fact have an outside air kit, is it at all possible your inexperienced installer didnt remove the insulation disc in the intake of the passthru?

Also, I dont agree that the door should be left open after lighting....light it, close the door. if you have to puit it in test mode once or twice, do so....I outlined this procedure earlier. Other than the alcohol thing, his procedure is quite good and sound. I dont like using straight alcohol due to the flammability aspect....the available gels usually are somewhat retarded so they dont flare up as much.......alcohol is very flammable, and could result in fire issues if used not carefully......

As i said earlier, there could actually be a bad part in the unit, and it would be REALLY NICE to see a draft reading on this thing.......again, your dealer should have done this upon install......not that it helps, and I feel your pain, but the dealer is at least half of the stove-buying equation. They should be willing to check this thing out....even thought the P38 is non-autoigniting, it should be light-able. Usually the lighting issues with these things are the customer doing something wrong (tho im sure likely not in your case)....we had a customer using very little gel in one......they'd go to light it and the gel would burn out before the unit could get up to temperature, so, it wouldnt feed or stay lit.

Also, dont forget to close the front door, the ash door, and the hopper lid....the p38 WILL NOT feed with any one of the above open.

In answer to your question about how to articulate these issues to te "repairman", I would insist on a draft test, see what the readings are, and go from there. The circuitboard might be at fault, so, he ought to bring another with him (any dealer worth their salt keeps extra anyhow). The vac switch RARELY fails.....VERY rarely..........ever so rarely (Im saying here its probs not your issue).....

let us know! We'll get this figured out.

therer are no dip switches on the p38 circuit board.

check out the latest technical newsletter, dated 9/28/2010, could be a typo, but bullet #2 under P38 mentions dipswitches......havent seen any yet, but there could be dipswitches on them.....now I have to call harman and find out...stay tuned

looked at it, new circuit board, I havent seen any come thru with it yet, though... thx for the tip, maybe she has one, but if she has had it for over a month then she probably does not have the dip switches, just a rookie harman dealer

 

[stormy873]

UPDATE: Oh, OK now I am *REALLY* mad.

I just got home from a long day at work and had a message on my phone based on the email I sent to the dealer.

It was Mike, you know the stove technician who they sent out to look at the stove, the one who said he'd never seen a Harman before that day and the one who couldn't get it lit without resorting to the "light it, leave the door open and then turn it on method of operation. " I am so steaming mad I can hardly manage to write this. Long story short, old Mike (ya know the one who hasn't been to any of the Harman training classes per his conversation with my husband) called to inform us that the problem wasn't with the stove but with our lack of ability to light it properly and that under NO circumstances should we light it, leave the door open and then turn it on... Yes, folks that would be the very same Mike who was not able to get the stove lit without resorting to the light it, leave the door cracked, THEN turn the stove on method himself.

You see, according to him we we are just not being aggressive enough starting the fire. We are not putting on sufficient starter gel or enough fuel in the stove to get it to a temperature where it will kick on. UGH! Ya know, I went through an entire 16 ounce bottle of starter gel to get my first BAG of pellets lit and I can assure you I am NOT A feline when it come to getting enough fuel in the hopper to get this thing going. And yes, in case there is any doubt I even put a torch to the pellet with starter gel on them and as SOON as I closed the door, out goes the fire.

I swear this stove CAN NOT be lit if I follow the instructions in the manual. Lights like a dream if you get a nice fire going before you close the door and turn it on but it immediately dies if you do anything else. The only thing I can think to do is to video the procedure and put it on You tube so that forum members (which seem to be the only one's that have a clue) can get a look-see at the fire or lack of fire behavior. I have also trekked around the country and purchased two other brands of stove pellets so I can see if it could somehow be a pellet related issue.

My personal inclination is that something ain't right with this stove. Whether it be a leak, to much outside air, not enough air I don't have a clue. All I know is that I have found another oddity that I wonder if it is of significance... If I hold something behind and near the bottom of the stove that is smoking (cigarette/incense stick) the smoke is sucked in through the back of the stove with a force better than any exhaust fan I have in the house...Seems odd considering I am supposed to have outside air, doesn't it?

So here is where I stand. Stove was installed with no draft tests done at any time during the installation. Installer did not start or run the stove at completion of installation. Hapless homeowner, is apparently to dumb to light a fire. My Harman stove, wanna love it... glad I paid for it via credit card-ability to dispute charges-priceless.

NOTE:
If anyone from Harman is monitoring this forum. Please feel fee to get in touch with me directly. I work for an internet marketing genius and know how to buy buy placement that will allow my troubles with this stove to appear at the top of any search related to Harman stoves. Do not piss me off.

Forum Members, again many, many thanks to you for your help and advice. You have all been so helpful during this process and I look forward to your suggestions.

Stormy

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

UPDATE: Oh, OK now I am *REALLY* mad.

NOTE:
If anyone from Harman is monitoring this forum. Please feel fee to get in touch with me directly. I work for an internet marketing genius and know how to buy buy placement that will allow my troubles with this stove to appear at the top of any search related to Harman stoves. Do not piss me off.

Forum Members, again many, many thanks to you for your help and advice. You have all been so helpful during this process and I look forward to your suggestions.

Stormy

I've always wanted to meet a black hat SEO type.

I suggest you go see the dealer in person, invite him or her over to light your stove according to the manual. Forget Mike and the stupid games.

 

[MCPO]

I see little wrong (have done it myself) leaving the door cracked open for a minute or two to allow for a stronger starting fire to build up since the combustion blower vents the smoke and gases quite well. Leaving the door cracked open diminishes the strong air flow that can blow out the early stage of a starting fire.
The Harman under fire air seems to be strong and concentrated and inherently tougher to light than my Englander and I am in fact more aggressive lighting this stove.
Thats why I use 91% alcohol or charcoal lighting fluid instead of the gel. I find these two alternative products to be easy to use , much more reliable , and as safe as the gel. And as a bonus they are significantly less costly.
I know the users manual explicitly state you use their recommend method(s) only but they have to be overly guarded that they don`t leave themselves open to accident law suits due to a careless operator.
The user manual that comes with the stove is an excellent guide but it`s made to *generally* cover most installations and situations and for anything not in the book you are at the mercy of the dealer.
And for that reason , as much as I like my Harman P-38 , my next stove will probably be another Englander. The solution to a problem is in most cases just a phone call away.

 

[Countryboymo]

I have heard people using totally different starting procedures but didn't really realize why until this post. I think you will get it ironed out but think there might be something wrong with the install of the stove or air kit. I think part of it is just getting used to it.

I run downstairs and turn the lever on the stat all the way to the right and run back up. I go back down 10 mins later and there is fire. It is really rather boring as I always loved rolling up a ton of newspaper and gathering other items to get the wood furnace at the farm going when I was younger for my parents. I burned so many things that were not supposed to go in there its not funny...maybe on second thought it is best for me to have auto ignition.

I do have some spare 30% nitromethane from my R/C truck I can send to help fire that stove up. Mix a little of that with some pellets....hmmm I will be back I am going to try something....

 

[tgloersen]

Return it for a auto light, hand starting is like a hand crank car.

nothing wrong with starting with gel....less to go wrong...once you know how to do it, youre good....P61 here, starting it with gel for 9 years now

I have done both and much prefer the auto ignite(I am much lazier in my old age now). But once you get used to the manual ignite stove its not so bad. Just need to think ahead some.

I've seen both sides as family members have a P38 and a P43. The P43 has seen 2 new igniters over the last couple of years and the P38 has had no repairs at all. I don't think paying for a years supply of gel would be more than the cost of 1 igniter. So there are pros and cons for both sides of this fence! Its all in the eyes of the owner(and the cash in the wallet).

Can we say debate??? hehe!

Jay aren't you going to plug the propane torch method of manual lighting?

Well I was going to but you do get a nasty wood smell when you do it with a torch on a P38. I tried it on the P38 and my sis wasn't happy with me. Hard to keep the door closed with your arm in the stove! Works great on my Omega because the combustion blower is running and sucks the smoke and smell out the vent. I prefer map gas too!

Right on Jay!! Thats exactly what i do, i'm burning in a matter of seconds!!

 

[Lousyweather]

UPDATE: Oh, OK now I am *REALLY* mad.

I just got home from a long day at work and had a message on my phone based on the email I sent to the dealer.

It was Mike, you know the stove technician who they sent out to look at the stove, the one who said he'd never seen a Harman before that day and the one who couldn't get it lit without resorting to the "light it, leave the door open and then turn it on method of operation. " I am so steaming mad I can hardly manage to write this. Long story short, old Mike (ya know the one who hasn't been to any of the Harman training classes per his conversation with my husband) called to inform us that the problem wasn't with the stove but with our lack of ability to light it properly and that under NO circumstances should we light it, leave the door open and then turn it on... Yes, folks that would be the very same Mike who was not able to get the stove lit without resorting to the light it, leave the door cracked, THEN turn the stove on method himself.

You see, according to him we we are just not being aggressive enough starting the fire. We are not putting on sufficient starter gel or enough fuel in the stove to get it to a temperature where it will kick on. UGH! Ya know, I went through an entire 16 ounce bottle of starter gel to get my first BAG of pellets lit and I can assure you I am NOT A feline when it come to getting enough fuel in the hopper to get this thing going. And yes, in case there is any doubt I even put a torch to the pellet with starter gel on them and as SOON as I closed the door, out goes the fire.

I swear this stove CAN NOT be lit if I follow the instructions in the manual. Lights like a dream if you get a nice fire going before you close the door and turn it on but it immediately dies if you do anything else. The only thing I can think to do is to video the procedure and put it on You tube so that forum members (which seem to be the only one's that have a clue) can get a look-see at the fire or lack of fire behavior. I have also trekked around the country and purchased two other brands of stove pellets so I can see if it could somehow be a pellet related issue.

My personal inclination is that something ain't right with this stove. Whether it be a leak, to much outside air, not enough air I don't have a clue. All I know is that I have found another oddity that I wonder if it is of significance... If I hold something behind and near the bottom of the stove that is smoking (cigarette/incense stick) the smoke is sucked in through the back of the stove with a force better than any exhaust fan I have in the house...Seems odd considering I am supposed to have outside air, doesn't it?

So here is where I stand. Stove was installed with no draft tests done at any time during the installation. Installer did not start or run the stove at completion of installation. Hapless homeowner, is apparently to dumb to light a fire. My Harman stove, wanna love it... glad I paid for it via credit card-ability to dispute charges-priceless.

NOTE:
If anyone from Harman is monitoring this forum. Please feel fee to get in touch with me directly. I work for an internet marketing genius and know how to buy buy placement that will allow my troubles with this stove to appear at the top of any search related to Harman stoves. Do not piss me off.

Forum Members, again many, many thanks to you for your help and advice. You have all been so helpful during this process and I look forward to your suggestions.

Stormy

gotta admit, Sotrym, at first I was thinking the same thing......this girl isnt using enough gel! But now that youve said ou used THAT much, I'll throw my hat in as well and say there might be a stove issue or a stove DEALER issue here (installation error?).......I dont think its Harman's fault, as they rely on the dealer for their eyes on the street. My money is on an inexperienced installer/dealer. Still dont like lighting it with the door open either......lol......

As for threatening to defame someone, possibly unnecissarily, and Im no lawyer, but that can create more problems than it might cure.......you seem quite intelligent, so Im sure you know what the legal ramifications of such might be. I asked this before....will only once more.....DID HE TAKE A DRAFT READING?

 

[slvrblkk]

UPDATE: Oh, OK now I am *REALLY* mad.

I just got home from a long day at work and had a message on my phone based on the email I sent to the dealer.

It was Mike, you know the stove technician who they sent out to look at the stove, the one who said he'd never seen a Harman before that day and the one who couldn't get it lit without resorting to the "light it, leave the door open and then turn it on method of operation. " I am so steaming mad I can hardly manage to write this. Long story short, old Mike (ya know the one who hasn't been to any of the Harman training classes per his conversation with my husband) called to inform us that the problem wasn't with the stove but with our lack of ability to light it properly and that under NO circumstances should we light it, leave the door open and then turn it on... Yes, folks that would be the very same Mike who was not able to get the stove lit without resorting to the light it, leave the door cracked, THEN turn the stove on method himself.

You see, according to him we we are just not being aggressive enough starting the fire. We are not putting on sufficient starter gel or enough fuel in the stove to get it to a temperature where it will kick on. UGH! Ya know, I went through an entire 16 ounce bottle of starter gel to get my first BAG of pellets lit and I can assure you I am NOT A feline when it come to getting enough fuel in the hopper to get this thing going. And yes, in case there is any doubt I even put a torch to the pellet with starter gel on them and as SOON as I closed the door, out goes the fire.

I swear this stove CAN NOT be lit if I follow the instructions in the manual. Lights like a dream if you get a nice fire going before you close the door and turn it on but it immediately dies if you do anything else. The only thing I can think to do is to video the procedure and put it on You tube so that forum members (which seem to be the only one's that have a clue) can get a look-see at the fire or lack of fire behavior. I have also trekked around the country and purchased two other brands of stove pellets so I can see if it could somehow be a pellet related issue.

My personal inclination is that something ain't right with this stove. Whether it be a leak, to much outside air, not enough air I don't have a clue. All I know is that I have found another oddity that I wonder if it is of significance... If I hold something behind and near the bottom of the stove that is smoking (cigarette/incense stick) the smoke is sucked in through the back of the stove with a force better than any exhaust fan I have in the house...Seems odd considering I am supposed to have outside air, doesn't it?

So here is where I stand. Stove was installed with no draft tests done at any time during the installation. Installer did not start or run the stove at completion of installation. Hapless homeowner, is apparently to dumb to light a fire. My Harman stove, wanna love it... glad I paid for it via credit card-ability to dispute charges-priceless.

NOTE:
If anyone from Harman is monitoring this forum. Please feel fee to get in touch with me directly. I work for an internet marketing genius and know how to buy buy placement that will allow my troubles with this stove to appear at the top of any search related to Harman stoves. Do not piss me off.

Forum Members, again many, many thanks to you for your help and advice. You have all been so helpful during this process and I look forward to your suggestions.

Stormy

gotta admit, Sotrym, at first I was thinking the same thing......this girl isnt using enough gel! But now that youve said ou used THAT much, I'll throw my hat in as well and say there might be a stove issue or a stove DEALER issue here (installation error?).......I dont think its Harman's fault, as they rely on the dealer for their eyes on the street. My money is on an inexperienced installer/dealer. Still dont like lighting it with the door open either......lol......

As for threatening to defame someone, possibly unnecissarily, and Im no lawyer, but that can create more problems than it might cure.......you seem quite intelligent, so Im sure you know what the legal ramifications of such might be. I asked this before....will only once more.....DID HE TAKE A DRAFT READING?

she said he did not .....

So here is where I stand. Stove was installed with no draft tests done at any time during the installation. Installer did not start or run the stove at completion of installation.