New house, stove advice needed

[begreen]

Good plan, take a look at the options and look at some stoves. If you can post some floor layout diagrams that include openings and stairwells, we may be able to help with a relocation of the stove. Can you see where they used to have the stove when it was connected to the central flue?

 

[Skier76]

It's hard to tell how the old stove was set up. It was somewhere in the exact center of the house; based on that old pipe sticking out of the top of the ridge. There's a roughly 2.5' x 2.5' area of the main floor that's different from the rest of the floor. From the area below, it looks like that added joists/supports when that was covered up. I'm not sure if the stove/fire place was on the main level or lower level. I almost want to say main level because there are no indications that the stove was in the lower level; all the linoleum is there an non if it is marred or dented. Currently, the staircase that leads to the loft and the pantry would prevent anything from being installed there. The house was built in 1966(ish) so it's really hard to tell what the original set up looked like. My assumption (we know what they say about "assuming") is they had a metal fireplace; one of those round metal mid/late 60's models on the main level. Again, a total assumption or guess on my part.

Here's a pic of the floor plan I was able to take from one of the documents we have. This is the way the house is currently set up. The stove would go in the area labeled "hearth" on the lower level. That's the same area the current pipe is located.

Edit: Make sure you scroll down or click the mouse wheel for the dimensions. I didn't get a side bar when I viewed the image full size from this post.

 

[Skier76]

Pics as promised! I took a shot of the make/brand of the chimney pipe.

I also took another shot of the entire pipe. I did a little measuring/estimating. I'd say the pipe is between 12-14' feet tall. I was able to remove some creasote from the cap by standing on the deck and using an old chimney brush they had left behind.

 

[Skier76]

A few pics of the hearth. Remember, we moved in about a month ago..hence "stuff" everywhere. This is my tool "staging area" if you will. HA! But these should give you a good idea of how it's set up. They went a bit heavy witht the grount between the stones. I was able to clean one stone off with a stiff bristle brush.

Oh, one more thing to add...Our downstairs door is only 29" wide. There's a spiral stiarcase leading upstairs, and that's no fun for hauling bulky items.

 

[Skier76]

We went to the stove dealer on Saturday before going to our house. It wasn't really busy there, so we had plenty of time to talk with the sales guy.

We looked at a few steel stoves which were nice. I can't recall which ones though. We also looked at a soapstone or two, but those were big $$. We really liked the Jotuls. They're a bit more money than the steel stoves, but we plan on being in this house for a long long time. Right now, we're thinking of going with the Castine. It seems to be sized a bit bigger for what we need, so it shouldn't have a problem heating the entire house. The logic the sales guy used: If you need the extra heat, you have it. If it's too hot, don't load it as much. Stove lists for $1965 in the mate black finish. Is that a decent price? We're going to have them install it when we eventually pull the trigger. He said he would come out and inspect things before they do the install. He was a bit concerned about the chimney length on our house currently.

I ended up splitting wood the previous owners left behind this weekend. HA!

 

[Bigg_Redd]

Unfortunately, there's no way to find out what they previous owners/tenants had in the house. It's kind of an interesting story. The people who owned the house lived in Alaska. They actually haven't been to the house in 15 years. From what I understand, the house had been rented for some time. The last tenants took the stove with them...or it was there's to begin with. The house had been unoccupied for about 1.5 years before we closed on it 3 weeks ago. It's been well taken care of too.

Any idea what it costs to hook a stove up to an existing chimney? I understand that some tweaking of the inside piping may have to be done. I'm a rather handy guy, but I don't want the smoke, car/mox detectors going bonkers when I light it up for the first time.

Thanks for the feedback on the brands I listed. My folks had a Jotul back in the day. I want to say it had a big number "3" on the side of it. Put out a lot of heat! But it was heating a house that was easily twice the size of the A Frame.

I almost forgot! The A Frame already has a ceiling fan installed. I'm sure that will get a workout once we get a stove. Amazing how much heat collects up near the top of the ceiling.

It's free if you do it yourself.

 

[begreen]

The Castine is a tad draft sensitive. Running it rear exit into 2 elbows and a tee on a cold exterior pipe could lead to fussy stove. Top exit would work better, but with the Castine's exhaust heading into an elbow, then the outdoor tee, it could make the stove balky to start. If you decide to go straight up to the old interior pipe instead of the current location, then the Castine should work ok. However, with it's 1.5 cu ft firebox, it's not what I would call an overnight stove. But it is a pretty one.

In your climate zone I'd go with a 2 cu ft, top vent stove in that corner location. Did you by any chance go to Preston Trading Post? If so did you look at and price up a mid-sized Quadrafire 3100? Also, not sold there , but if shopping in CT, and you are trying to save some bucks consider the 2 cu ft Napoleon 1400 for around $1200, or a PE Super27 for about $1500.

As for connecting the stove, the short run should be easy to DIY, but be sure the flue is cleaned first. If you have all the correct parts on hand the sweep could help with the connect.

 

[Skier76]

By draft sensitive, do you mean it'll smoke a bit when you light it at first? Or you need to crumple up some paper, light that...then build the fire?

I hadn't really considered getting a stove online. I suppose that is another option. We're still somewhat in the "fact finding" stage of this process. I'm thinking we'll get something later in the summer. So we have time to look around.

 

[begreen]

Yes, smoke may spill out of the stove on startup and possibly on reload, depending on the temp of the flue and outside temps. The Castine likes a bit stronger draft than some stoves. There are things you can do to assist startup, like use a propane torch above the baffle to preheat and assist draft. My preference would be the Oslo but it is not ideal for this tight corner installation.

There are several Napoleon dealers in CT and VT.
(broken link removed to http://direct.where2getit.com/cwc/apps/w2gi.php?template=fireplaces&client=napoleon)
Some folks have ordered via Zooblers or DynamiteBuys.com.

PE also has several dealers in New England. Check out their dealer finder. There are also other companies that might work here like Drolet, Buck and Enviro Kodiak.

I mentioned Napoleon and PE because they have close clearances and can be prettified with enameled panels and fancier doors if that is within the budget. (The Quad 3100 steptop is a little plainer, but a good heater that also has close corner install clearances.) Both have a good track record of simple operation and are tough, fast heaters. Get it with the blower. It's going to take some extra muscle when you are trying to take a cabin up from 45 degrees to 65, especially if it's 10 degrees outside.

 

[Skier76]

Excellent! It's always good to have a few other options. I apprecite the insight BeGreen. I'm somewhat anxious to hear what they have to say about the chimney. I know that may be an issue.

I found out a neighbor bought the stove that used to be in our place; but we've yet to meet them. Our nextdoor neighbor just returned from being away for a few months; maybe she'll have some insight.

I'm still amazed at how much stoves have changed. I noticed none of the stoves we looked at had dampers and gone is the wheel on the front of the Jotul's that allowed you to regulate the airflow. The burn tubes were new to me as well.

 

[begreen]

As long as you burn dry wood, those changes mean cleaner, hotter burning using less wood. You'll like the difference.

But get your wood split and stacked now. Modern stoves get grumpy with less than seasoned wood.

 

[summit]

pass thru wall does not look too cool.. no airspace around the pipe, just mortar, and the chimney is dented, and of a very old metalbestos variety. in some respects, this is good, it is probably asbestos in that pipe, so itll never burn out! otherwise, alot of insurance guys would tell you no way!

 

[Skier76]

As long as you burn dry wood, those changes mean cleaner, hotter burning using less wood. You'll like the difference.

But get your wood split and stacked now. Modern stoves get grumpy with less than seasoned wood.

I'm on it! Pics for proof: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/37951/

How old would you that pipe is summit?

 

[blel]

Metalbestos is a name Selkirk uses for it's Class A pipe. It has nothing to do with having asbestos in the pipe. This pipe is currently available and is a high quality class A pipe, similar to Dura Vent.

 

[Skier76]

Cool, thanks blel.

 

[summit]

Metalbestos is a name Selkirk uses for it's Class A pipe. It has nothing to do with having asbestos in the pipe. This pipe is currently available and is a high quality class A pipe, similar to Dura Vent.

the old stuff used asbestos lining, the new stuff uses mineral wool. depends on how old that chimney is, how old is the structure? did they reuse old pipe when they put it in?

 

[summit]

Metalbestos is a name Selkirk uses for it's Class A pipe. It has nothing to do with having asbestos in the pipe. This pipe is currently available and is a high quality class A pipe, similar to Dura Vent.

i install the metalbestos pipe, as well as some others (icc, duravent) and it is a very solid pipe.

 

[Skier76]

Metalbestos is a name Selkirk uses for it's Class A pipe. It has nothing to do with having asbestos in the pipe. This pipe is currently available and is a high quality class A pipe, similar to Dura Vent.

the old stuff used asbestos lining, the new stuff uses mineral wool. depends on how old that chimney is, how old is the structure? did they reuse old pipe when they put it in?

It's hard to say how old the set up is. It's not the orginal setup they had; which appears to be a center chimney at the peak of the roof. This side chimney through the foundation was added at a later date.

I know the stove place is going to balk at the set up. I did read the manual for the Castine and it looks like we just barely have the min height for the chimney of 14'. Now the only hurdle is it clearning the roof peak. We just don't have the funds to completely redo the chimney and hook it up to the old ridge mounted unit. That would require a lot of work inside the house.

 

[johnn]

Just some thoughts to add.
Have you contacted your neighbors yet? Hoefully they have some insight in the history. Have you determined the cleanout is functionable? Is there a cap that will not have a tendancy to clog, though you may have to deal with nests? I would think that the loft is from original construction, and they were utilizing a stove at the first level location you found. Possibly they installed the spiral stairs for convenience and heat convection, when they moved the stove location to the basement. Is this staircase the one causing congestion at the first level, if you were to install there? You will be utilizing scaffolding to insulate the roof,and I`m not seeing where putting in interior pipe at that time would be too difficult, but if theres not floor space theres not floor space! As mentioned, two elbow, much less three, in conjunction with a sensitive draft stove and exterior chimney could be a frustrating experience. Not to mention your wood supply with a finiky set-up. Is this just going to be occasional use during ski season, and is your wood supply local or will you be hauling in wood? ( more weekend time needed,,its just so important to have dry wood with modern burners) Some more than others,,I`m not sure I`d pick a stove based on the current set-up. I thought just to revisit some of the previous mentioned items. Your installer should be able to give you the best advice,,as it is difficlt to do from long distance, sight unseen. Good luck

 

[Skier76]

I don't mind any additional insight at all. I really do appreciate it.

I will pull the cleanout this weekend and take a look. I'll take pics as well. If the cap was any indication, there's going to be a lot of crud in there. Again, pics will be provided.

The cap is accessable from the deck if I use a pole and a brush. I'm a newb...so excuse my newb questions. Is it acceptable to clean the cap from the outsite with some type of brush? I'd assume you could get to the inside via a regular sweep and some extention poles.

Looking at the Castine, it appeared that the hookup can come straight up off the back of the unit. I'm thinking we could replace the current hookup at the hearth. The new pipe would come straight up off the stove then make one bend to go out of the foundation, then one more to go up the chimney.

I'll take some pics of the inside of the house as well. Running a chimney through the center of the house would be a lot of work...in my non professional opinion. Basically, you'd have a metal pipe running right through the center of the floor in the living room, near the kitchen. I'm not sure if that's possible with the way the house is set up now. That would also require moving the wood stove from the hearth, to basically the center of the room downstairs. That would probably remove a good amount of functionality/living space from that room.

 

[johnn]

Sounds as though you will be able to sweep the liner well enough. The cap will depend on the construction and your installer can answer that for you. A dealer install will go by code and you may have to use a step ladder on the deck when all is said and done. Changing the set-up to two elbows sounds good. I`m not trying to change anyones mind, however I was referring to if you were to use the first level for the installation. For when you are not using the house,,,the appliance you mentioned putting in the basement,,,would that be gas and require a vent?

 

[Skier76]

Ah, gotcha! I must have misread your post. I don't think putting it on the main level would be doable; there's just not enough room.

We changed plans regarding the gas heater downstairs. The estimate was pretty darn high for that. Plus, we would have to move the propane tanks due to the location of the vent; a lot of $ and a lot of work. I think we're going to run some wires and use some electric baseboard heaters to keep things around 50F when we're not there. When there, we'll use the wood stove.

 

[begreen]

Looking at the Castine, it appeared that the hookup can come straight up off the back of the unit. I’m thinking we could replace the current hookup at the hearth. The new pipe would come straight up off the stove then make one bend to go out of the foundation, then one more to go up the chimney.

I love the Castine. Visually it's a 10. But given the installation and cold, short flue, I would look at a different stove for this installation. I also think that with the intermittent use and need to heat up the mass of the A frame quickly, I'd opt for a bit more horsepower.

 

[Skier76]

Think something in the Jotul line up...but a bit bigger than the Castine? Do other Jotul stoves have the draft issues?

I think I'll head back to the dealer in a weekend or two. This time, I'm going to bring a copy of the floor plan, and some pics of the chimney piping and inside hookup. I didn't have those with me last time. We pretty much decided we'd hit the store on our way up there, and all my pics are at the house.

You guys have been great answering all of my newbie questions.

 

[blel]

Did you ever look into the Englander stoves? They were suggested earlier in the thread and just wondered if you checked them out.