Fiziksgeek said:We bought a house in the fall of 2010 here in CT. It has 2 chimneys. One between the family room and attached garage that has 2 flues, one for the oil furnace in the basement and one for a fireplace in the family room (which I don't think has ever been used). On the other end of the house is our problem. There is an exterior chimney which fed a wood stove in the basement. There was always a slight smoke smell in the basement, but as it was late summer when we saw the place, it was pretty light and didn't bother us. As we got into fall and started closing up the house the odor got worse and worse. Life was busy, wife was pregnant, so we just left it alone and didn't burn any fires last winter, and didnt go into the basement much. The odor continued, sometimes stronger and sometimes weaker, I assumes varying with humidity. When the spring rains came, I noticed water in the firebox behind the wood stove. Its slowly gotten worse, to the point where it was enough water to spill out of the firebox onto the floor (luckily tiled).
A couple months ago, I called a chimney sweep to have the chimney/wood stove cleaned and inspected. Turns out the wood stove, which looks to be a converted coal stove, was not properly installed. The previous owner took a piece of flu pipe like you would have on a furnace, inverted it, and shoved it up the flue a foot or so. It was unclear when it had last been cleaned. The insulation around the pipe was soaking wet. The sweep said we had stage 3 creosote and need a deglazing. He took some pictures to show me, and broke off a couple pieces of creosote, maybe an inch thick. I stuck my head in there and saw what he saw. He sort of dismissed the smell, saying its was because the chimney was horribly dirty and wet. At that point, he called his supervisor, talked for a few minutes, and came back to me. He said they could do the deglazing and put the stove back, but that it was not properly installed and recommended that we not use it. I talked with him about putting in a liner, he gave me some ball park costs, talked with his boss and told me that they would do the deglazing free if we purchased a new stove and a proper stainless steal liner from them. I said we would think about it, he gave us his card and didn't charge us anything for the 45 minutes or so he spent at the house. Since then, I removed the stove (put it in the shed), and stuffed a piece of insulation the flue. The smell is till pretty strong, and water still comes down the flu (it is capped at the top). No water comes down the other chimney even though that one does not have a cap on it!
Soo....I have a three goals. First, stop the water from coming down the chimney. Second, stop the smoke odor. Third, have a usable wood stove.
Weather I call the original sweep or another, what do I need to ask him to do? Googling my way around, I see a lot of water issues being caused by crumbling/cracked crowns? So I need to get him up on the roof I assume? What typically causes the smoke smell, bad drafting? How does this get solved other than opening a window and freezing the basement and all my pipes? Will putting in a proper liner help the natural draft? Should I tear down the chimney..is that the only way to solve the problem? Help!
Biff_CT2 said:Re. smell
I'll assume your furnace is in the basement, without a direct hookup to outside air.
That said, your furnace needs air to burn your oil. It draws that air from the basement and expels out the flue. This creates a negative in your basement. The atmosphere outside your basement sees the negative in your basement through your basement-wood stove flue, and air moves down the your basement stove flue into your basement as a result. Along the way it picks up contaminates from inside your wood stove flue. My guess is that the fire smell in your basement is worse on days when your running your furnace. Outside humdity has a role as well, more humid air being inclined to move more of the crap in your chimney into your basement air.
Hence, you're going to have a 'fire' smell in the basement when you run your furnace.
Re. water
My bet is condensation due to air movement through the chimney when you operate your furnace. Your exterior chimney has significant thermal mass, so on days when you move wet air through the chimney you get condensation.
This could be good news, you may not need that roofer or mason. But you still have the airflow through the stove issue that isn't going to get solved. Replacing your stove with an air-tight EPA type stove will help; better would be finding a way to provide make-up air to your furnace so that you don't pull outside air through your basement chimney.
You could test this both these theories by opening a basement window or door when you're running your furnace. The water thing would be tricky though, you'd have to isolate the weather condition that cause the condensation.
Re. stove shops / sweeps
I'm not far from you in Connectcut and have some exerperience shopping masons, sweeps and stove shops. My advice: be skeptical. There are far more charlatans looking to screw you than there are reputable shops/servicers. And I'd definitely stay away from the stove shop in Naugutuck.
I've had decent luck with the two shops in Southington (Dean's and the other one immediately down the street).
And 'reputable' and 'sweep' are not two words I'd use together based on my experiences in your neck of the woods.
Doing The Dixie Eyed Hustle said:Fiziks, sounds like you are on the right track.
Welcome to the forums . Have fun storming the castle ;-)
elmoleaf said:Water: on the building exterior, get a ladder and check the sloped brickwork at the first floor where the fireplace & its flue offsets from your boiler flue. It's possible the sloped surface up there has deteriorated mortar.
Fiziksgeek said:I got the quote from the first mason who came by.
1. Move equipment to site and layout job.
2. Set-up forklift and platform.
3. Remove top cement wash chimney.
4. Supply and install new brick piers.
5. Apply new cement wash to the top.
6. Supply and install spark arrestor screen.
7. Furnish and install bluestone weather cap to top of chimney.
8. Inspect existing flashing and notify owners if repairs needed.
9. Remove debris from job and clean area.
$2338 including tax
+$400 option to have the chimney exterior washed and sealed.
This is way more than I want to spend, and doesn't include flashing repair if necessary. Can anyone give me a typical cost for a new crown? Forget pillars and a bluestone cap...whats a basis crown job cost..?
volemister said:Fiziksgeek:
From your quote, it seems that all that is being done is to replace the crown wash, plus making the top of the chimney fancier than it was by putting blue stone atop the chimney. I don't know about prices where you are, but $2338 including tax seems high. Also, will the new work interfere with cleaning the flue?
The first year after we bought our home, I had a sweep clean the chimney flue - then supporting an open fireplace. The sweep noted that the crown wash was deteriorated so we paid him to repair it. The next year I was up on the roof inspecting conditions and noted that his work was not satisfactory. There were several remaining (or new?) cracks and breaks that somehow the sweep overlooked. Since I have a 4/12 pitch roof, single story, I decided to replace and rebuild the crown wash myself. This was not a complicated job. I removed the broken and cracked cement (with 5 lb hammer and chisel) and built a plywood/ 2X4 form to support a new concrete pour. When the new crown wash had cured for some weeks, I coated the whole wash with an elasomeric product that has held up well for eight years now. Total materials costs were about $200 to $300 (concrete mix is cheap), the most expensive cost being the elasomeric product. It took me about two days to do the job - one half day to remove the old wash - one day to build the concrete form - one half day to pour concrete. It is a DIY job, but roof heights may present a challenge. When I need to get up high (we have tall spruce trees that need maintenance), I rent a man-lift. I have rented both tow-behind types (up to 60 feet high) and four-wheel drive units (up to 80 feet) with much success.
About your chimney reline: I suggest that you insist on knowing the brand name and type of flex-pipe that your contractor will provide. There are so many types available and you should know what you are buying. Also, an insulated pipe is a good thing. Also, getting references from your contractor and checking them out is worth the effort.
Concerning your proposed insert: We have a Clydesdale and are very pleased with our choice. I cannot speak to other types/models.
Good luck with your new insert install.
Fiziksgeek said:volemister said:Fiziksgeek:
From your quote, it seems that all that is being done is to replace the crown wash, plus making the top of the chimney fancier than it was by putting blue stone atop the chimney. I don't know about prices where you are, but $2338 including tax seems high. Also, will the new work interfere with cleaning the flue?
The first year after we bought our home, I had a sweep clean the chimney flue - then supporting an open fireplace. The sweep noted that the crown wash was deteriorated so we paid him to repair it. The next year I was up on the roof inspecting conditions and noted that his work was not satisfactory. There were several remaining (or new?) cracks and breaks that somehow the sweep overlooked. Since I have a 4/12 pitch roof, single story, I decided to replace and rebuild the crown wash myself. This was not a complicated job. I removed the broken and cracked cement (with 5 lb hammer and chisel) and built a plywood/ 2X4 form to support a new concrete pour. When the new crown wash had cured for some weeks, I coated the whole wash with an elasomeric product that has held up well for eight years now. Total materials costs were about $200 to $300 (concrete mix is cheap), the most expensive cost being the elasomeric product. It took me about two days to do the job - one half day to remove the old wash - one day to build the concrete form - one half day to pour concrete. It is a DIY job, but roof heights may present a challenge. When I need to get up high (we have tall spruce trees that need maintenance), I rent a man-lift. I have rented both tow-behind types (up to 60 feet high) and four-wheel drive units (up to 80 feet) with much success.
About your chimney reline: I suggest that you insist on knowing the brand name and type of flex-pipe that your contractor will provide. There are so many types available and you should know what you are buying. Also, an insulated pipe is a good thing. Also, getting references from your contractor and checking them out is worth the effort.
Concerning your proposed insert: We have a Clydesdale and are very pleased with our choice. I cannot speak to other types/models.
Good luck with your new insert install.
Thanks for the response.
I agree, they are proposing a crown job plus some extra work. Maybe its a better way long term to have a bluestone cap covering everything, but it seems to be to be more of an embellishment.
I was thinking that a crown job might cost $500-700 and what he was proposing would be $1000-1200...I was way off. A DIY job is out of the question, not because I wouldn't try, just because of the heights. At the peak of the two story colonial, on the end of the house with the walk in basement, its probably 30' to the top, I'm just not comfortable up that high!
I am sure they told me the brand of liner at Dean's, my bad for not writing it down. I figured I would wait until I got their mason out for a look before I ask any more questions. Is it sufficient to just do an insulating wrap around the liner, or should I ask for the pour in insulation that completely fills the flu around the liner after its installed?? The flu is 12x12.
Stump_Branch said:Fiziksgeek, seeing how for some reasons no ones said it unless i missed, have you seen woodstocks line of stoves? Soapstone cat stoves, great customer service. Woodstoves.com or simply do a search here. Lots of good things said.
I had a cheap small insert, didnt like it either. I prefer the pure stove over an insert. I have a similarish fireplace set up. If you got the room, try to put a nice sized stove up/in there.
Good luck.
pyper said:I think it's the height that's raising your costs.
A friend of mine had some work done and I think he said the lift cost $1500 a week to rent.
Fiziksgeek said:I finally heard back from the first mason, and the bluestone cap costs $800-900 over the standard crown repair ($1400-1500).
Having real trouble getting people to call back, getting someone who will go up on the roof and actually look at whats is going on....and now that we have some snow on the ground, I have a feeling it will get harder. Heck, Dean's didn't even call be back, not even with the prospect of me spending 4-5K in their store....People don't want my business..?
Fiziksgeek said:I don't think I am the one who needs to be reading the book....don't they need to read it? and if I can't get them to call me back about a purchase, how am I going to get them to read a book...?
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