New Hearthstone castleton difficulties

[coloradoblueskies]

Hello, new member, new stove owner. I recently purchased a hearthstone castleton and had it professionally installed in my house. it is 5 feet of 6" chimney to the ceiling, and then about 10 feet of 8" to the roof vent. The 5 ft section from stove to ceiling has two 45 degree bends. Double walled chimney. From the get go, i've found this stove very difficult to get a fire burning, I've had to restart fires several times in an evening. Tonight, xmas eve, I've started it 3 times and have given up on it. the house is filled with smoke, every time i open the door to give it air, smoke billows out. I'm using dry seasoned pine. We've used this stove maybe 10 times, at least three of those events have required several starts from kindling. I leave the front door open to aid in air flow for a good 10 to 15 minutes to where i have a roaring fire burning, then add a bit more larger wood and then close the front door. If i don't stay right there and watch the fire, it dies down immensely, and i often have to open the door to give it adequate air. It seems to require almost constant attention to the point where it is hardly worth the effort. I did not think this stove was going to be so needy in terms of attention.
The air vent adjuster on the front does not seem to allow much change in air flow. After each use, I've completely cleaned the stove, vacuuming the entire fire chamber, and making certain to clean out the air slot at the front of the stove. In another post, someone mentioned starting the burn from the "top down" instead of from the "bottom up". Not certain what this refers to?
I spoke with the installer, and he seemed to think I am just not used to these "new" generation stoves, I realize the soapstone requires a slower heart buildup so as not to crack the stone, but my experience seems ridiculous. I did not expect to have to baby sit this unit as much as it seems to need. What are others experience with this stove? Are my expectations unreasonable? I am not new to wood stoves, I've been using them for 40 years, and never encountered this much difficulty.

 

[begreen]

The flue setup is not ideal. If the wood is not fully seasoned, the stove will be hard to start. Try some dry 2x4 cutoffs to see if they start easier.

 

[Mreif]

Hello, new member, new stove owner. I recently purchased a hearthstone castleton and had it professionally installed in my house. it is 5 feet of 6" chimney to the ceiling, and then about 10 feet of 8" to the roof vent. The 5 ft section from stove to ceiling has two 45 degree bends. Double walled chimney. From the get go, i've found this stove very difficult to get a fire burning, I've had to restart fires several times in an evening. Tonight, xmas eve, I've started it 3 times and have given up on it. the house is filled with smoke, every time i open the door to give it air, smoke billows out. I'm using dry seasoned pine. We've used this stove maybe 10 times, at least three of those events have required several starts from kindling. I leave the front door open to aid in air flow for a good 10 to 15 minutes to where i have a roaring fire burning, then add a bit more larger wood and then close the front door. If i don't stay right there and watch the fire, it dies down immensely, and i often have to open the door to give it adequate air. It seems to require almost constant attention to the point where it is hardly worth the effort. I did not think this stove was going to be so needy in terms of attention.
The air vent adjuster on the front does not seem to allow much change in air flow. After each use, I've completely cleaned the stove, vacuuming the entire fire chamber, and making certain to clean out the air slot at the front of the stove. In another post, someone mentioned starting the burn from the "top down" instead of from the "bottom up". Not certain what this refers to?
I spoke with the installer, and he seemed to think I am just not used to these "new" generation stoves, I realize the soapstone requires a slower heart buildup so as not to crack the stone, but my experience seems ridiculous. I did not expect to have to baby sit this unit as much as it seems to need. What are others experience with this stove? Are my expectations unreasonable? I am not new to wood stoves, I've been using them for 40 years, and never encountered this much difficulty.

Hello, new member, new stove owner. I recently purchased a hearthstone castleton and had it professionally installed in my house. it is 5 feet of 6" chimney to the ceiling, and then about 10 feet of 8" to the roof vent. The 5 ft section from stove to ceiling has two 45 degree bends. Double walled chimney. From the get go, i've found this stove very difficult to get a fire burning, I've had to restart fires several times in an evening. Tonight, xmas eve, I've started it 3 times and have given up on it. the house is filled with smoke, every time i open the door to give it air, smoke billows out. I'm using dry seasoned pine. We've used this stove maybe 10 times, at least three of those events have required several starts from kindling. I leave the front door open to aid in air flow for a good 10 to 15 minutes to where i have a roaring fire burning, then add a bit more larger wood and then close the front door. If i don't stay right there and watch the fire, it dies down immensely, and i often have to open the door to give it adequate air. It seems to require almost constant attention to the point where it is hardly worth the effort. I did not think this stove was going to be so needy in terms of attention.
The air vent adjuster on the front does not seem to allow much change in air flow. After each use, I've completely cleaned the stove, vacuuming the entire fire chamber, and making certain to clean out the air slot at the front of the stove. In another post, someone mentioned starting the burn from the "top down" instead of from the "bottom up". Not certain what this refers to?
I spoke with the installer, and he seemed to think I am just not used to these "new" generation stoves, I realize the soapstone requires a slower heart buildup so as not to crack the stone, but my experience seems ridiculous. I did not expect to have to baby sit this unit as much as it seems to need. What are others experience with this stove? Are my expectations unreasonable? I am not new to wood stoves, I've been using them for 40 years, and never encountered this much difficulty.

Why did the installer go 6" to 8". I'm not an expert but this may be slowing your draft.

 

[coloradoblueskies]

"Why did the installer go 6" to 8". I'm not an expert but this may be slowing your draft."

Why did the installer go 6" to 8". I'm not an expert but this may be slowing your draft.

the 8" diameter chimney was a pre-existing chimney installed by home manufacturer in the 1970's. The stove installer had nothing to do with that. The stove called for 6" chimney from stove to the ceiling connector. When I questioned installer about the 6" to 8" transition and effects on draft, he indicated he didn't think it would be a problem, I trusted his judgement; maybe I've been burned (no pun intended).

 

[coloradoblueskies]

The flue setup is not ideal. If the wood is not fully seasoned, the stove will be hard to start. Try some dry 2x4 cutoffs to see if they start easier.

I've tried wood that has been sitting indoors for 5+ years. I live in northern colorado, our relatively average humidity here is less than 5%, and the past several years have been especially dry. I can get the kindling to burn just fine, when I try to go to larger diameter fuel, that is when it dies out. it died out three times tonight. My guests were not impressed. We all had to literally go outside, as the house was so full of smoke, due to having to open the access door to get enough air into fire chamber, and still it died out.

 

[moresnow]

Post pics of the stove and venting. Indoors and out.
Post pics of what you're using for fuel.
What is your elevation?
Have you pulled the Catalyst for a cleaning/inspection?

Do you have a moisture meter for testing your fuel? If not. Purchase one.
For the correct moisture meter reading implementation take a handful of samples (different shapes and sizes you are currently trying to burn) from your fuel supply indoors overnight.
The next day take these room temp samples back outdoors and re-split them. Apply the moisture meter immediately to the (freshly exposed) middle surface of each sample. Both meter probes in line with wood grain preferably. What does the meter read?

Describe your start up routine as far as stove controls are operated.

Pics and answers will get you some answers from the members here.
Good luck.

 

[stoveliker]

Having a flue that is likely marginally proper height, and being at elevation (not sure but possible) means draft can be insufficient.
Optimize the flue.
Maybe add a 3 ft section to the flue to test. You can do this cheaply with single wall stove pipe, and if it works, do it properly with class A

 

[Pinesmoke]

I had startup issues with my Mansfield when I first got it. After 20 years with a cast iron stove it just was a tough start. The dealer, an old friend, said all the hearthstones he's ran are very cold blooded.

My startup is slower than a top down light but I bring the stone up slower to temp. 6-8 1-2" pine sticks with the door cracked. As they start to ember out another handful with the door still cracked. When the first sticks go to full ember, knock it all down to a pile and load a few larger pieces on the embers and close the door.

Startups are predictable now.

With your 8" stack I would think you really need to get temps up before it'll pull well.

 

[kborndale]

Are you preheating the flue? With your relatively short chimney, change in chimney size, and if you are at a high elevation in Colorado are all factors decreasing your draft. Changing the 8" sections to 6" and adding a few feet will probably help a lot. Also since your installer seems to be of questionable knowledge, was the existing chimney swept before installation or at least checked for obstructions?

 

[begreen]

I've tried wood that has been sitting indoors for 5+ years. I live in northern colorado, our relatively average humidity here is less than 5%, and the past several years have been especially dry. I can get the kindling to burn just fine, when I try to go to larger diameter fuel, that is when it dies out. it died out three times tonight. My guests were not impressed. We all had to literally go outside, as the house was so full of smoke, due to having to open the access door to get enough air into fire chamber, and still it died out.

The flueneeds an extension to compensate for altitude. The 8" section is not helping. Try a temporary additional length by removing the cap and inserting a 4' length of warm air duct to the flue top. Do this on a cold, but calm day.

 

[Rearscreen]

So needless to say, the stove has not ever gotten hot enough to engage the cat?

 

[coloradoblueskies]

Are you preheating the flue? With your relatively short chimney, change in chimney size, and if you are at a high elevation in Colorado are all factors decreasing your draft. Changing the 8" sections to 6" and adding a few feet will probably help a lot. Also since your installer seems to be of questionable knowledge, was the existing chimney swept before installation or at least checked for obstructions?

yes, the chimney was swept by the installer and he did an inspection, to determine what would be needed to install the stove. I looked up the chimney when he had finished, it looked fine to me, no obstructions, but i'm not a chimney sweep.

 

[coloradoblueskies]

Post pics of the stove and venting. Indoors and out.
Post pics of what you're using for fuel.
What is your elevation?
Have you pulled the Catalyst for a cleaning/inspection?

Do you have a moisture meter for testing your fuel? If not. Purchase one.
For the correct moisture meter reading implementation take a handful of samples (different shapes and sizes you are currently trying to burn) from your fuel supply indoors overnight.
The next day take these room temp samples back outdoors and re-split them. Apply the moisture meter immediately to the (freshly exposed) middle surface of each sample. Both meter probes in line with wood grain preferably. What does the meter read?

Describe your start up routine as far as stove controls are operated.

Pics and answers will get you some answers from the members here.
Good luck.

 

[coloradoblueskies]

I don't have a moisture meter, I've never needed one, My other stoves burned just fine. I guess with this stove maybe the investment would be worth it.
My elevation is 4900 ft. I'll have to try adding some footage to the chimney. I think the attic portion (8" section) will have to be remediated some way to close it down to 6" diameter.
I am starting with door open and lots of kindling to where the fire chamber is pretty much aflame, let that get good and hot and let that burn down some, and then start to add larger pieces. When the door is ajar an inch it burns great. I let the larger pieces catch and get hot, and then close the door with the vent all the way open.
I am preheating the flue with the kindling fire, or so I thought.
fuel is dry pine, the pieces you can see in the photo are used to split and create kindling, which is about 3/4 to 1 " square and about a foot long. i didn't take a photo of the wood, maybe tomorrow.
The kindling fire goes great, it is the larger pieces that are the problem.
As far as getting the stove to a temp to engage the catalyst, yes, it has gotten hot enough. I have not removed catalyst to inspect as I've probably burned it less than 10 times since new. my impression is that the catalyst is not the problem.
I've got a hot fire going right now, but my impression is that it still is not pulling well.
Does anyone have a good cleaning regimen they recommend? As i indicated, I have not burned it for 24 hours or over several days continuously. Maybe at most, it is active fire for 12 hours, and then left to die out. After each use, I completely remove ash and vacuum completely. I run a screwdriver in the air groove on the floor of the chamber right inside the door and vacuum that rigorously as well.
Thank you to all the suggestions and comments.

 

[coloradoblueskies]

when starting, the air vent is all the way open to the left on this stove, and the catalyst is bypassed, that's it, only two controls.

 

[stoveliker]

At that elevation and your flue height, the culprit is most likely the flue not drafting sufficiently for the stove.

Wetter wood also needs more draft to keep going in efficient modern stoves. So if the wood is subpar, this would exacerbate the situation.

 

[moresnow]

Elevation influenced lack of pipe length. Wrong pipe size. Bends in pipe. These components are likely to have a real adverse effect on your required draft.
You are not the first to experience draft issues. If you do some (Hearthstone) searching here on Hearth you will find others who have addressed similar issues. Search icon is in the upper right corner of this page. Definitely take a good look.

Pick up a moisture meter and start checking your fuel as described for some accurate readings. Almost everyone with similar trouble considers their fuel seasoned correctly and not possible of being their issue. Many times, wet/damp fuel is a large part of the issue. Not saying your fuel is lacking seasoning but it should be verified to eliminate that concern.

May be worth reaching out to Hearthstone for a chat. Couldn't hurt to try.
Perhaps a few more recent Hearthstone purchasers will start chiming in as well.
Sounds like some fine tuning should get you up and running.
Nice looking stove by the way!

 

[coloradoblueskies]

At that elevation and your flue height, the culprit is most likely the flue not drafting sufficiently for the stove.

Wetter wood also needs more draft to keep going in efficient modern stoves. So if the wood is subpar, this would exacerbate the situation.

this is the notion i am getting from all the comments. The question is, what do i do first, reduce the attic section from 8" to 6" diameter, or increase height of rooftop chimney section? Seems as if the later is the simplest. my impression is this wood is not wet.

 

[stoveliker]

I would increase the height first. You can use single wall stove pipe, or dryer vent as Begreen noted. This is the cheapest and the most reversible step.
Changing pipe (dia) costs (and would mean roof work as the flashing etc needs to be changed). If you can solve it reasonably by adding a section of (eventually) class A pipe, that's what I'd do.

A moisture meter is only $20-30.
I have a mmd4e. (And you can use it around the home if you have water leaks too...)