New Guy, Hearth Pad Questions for Englander 13-NC

[Joseph Wilson]

Hello everyone,

I'm looking at installing a Englander 13-NC in my 1100sf house. I have a place for the hearth picked out with plenty of clearance. I was originally planning on installing a tile hearth flush with the surrounding floor. However the stove manual says to install the stove on a pad with a R factor of at least 2. So it looks like I'm going to install a steel stud raised hearth pad with 2 layers of Durock, and porcelain tile. Does anyone have any pics or videos of a steel stud hearth construction?

I brought this idea to a local stove dealer, and he had never heard of building a hearth in such a way. He said he usually just installs the stove on regular tile installed over regular backer board. Which would certainly be a lot easier, but I don't think its the right way to do it. Opinions?

Also any tips for a first time installer would be helpful.

Thanks everyone.

 

[Ctd01]

Cant really answer you question but I can tell you its a very nice affordable stove. I have to say the blower makes a world of difference

 

[BrowningBAR]

Hello everyone,

I'm looking at installing a Englander 13-NC in my 1100sf house. I have a place for the hearth picked out with plenty of clearance. I was originally planning on installing a tile hearth flush with the surrounding floor. However the stove manual says to install the stove on a pad with a R factor of at least 2. So it looks like I'm going to install a steel stud raised hearth pad with 2 layers of Durock, and porcelain tile. Does anyone have any pics or videos of a steel stud hearth construction?

I brought this idea to a local stove dealer, and he had never heard of building a hearth in such a way. He said he usually just installs the stove on regular tile installed over regular backer board. Which would certainly be a lot easier, but I don't think its the right way to do it. Opinions?

Also any tips for a first time installer would be helpful.

Thanks everyone.

You are on the right track. I've never built a health, but I have seen many here who have. And I have seen a hearth built on here as you described it. I can not find the thread, though. If you search enough you should see it, or maybe someone else will know of it.

 

[chvymn99]

I'll see if I can find some old pictures from when I built mine this afternoon.

 

[begreen]

Your dealer is a bit naive. Some stoves can go on a simple tiled surface, but not the 13NC. It has one of the higher hearth requirements in the industry. He should know that.

Here's a thread that has a lot of discussion about using steel studs and it has some photos too.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/steel-studs-for-hearth.67970/

 

[chvymn99]

Ok, here is what I did for my corner install and my interpretation. I took the base dimension and made a cardboard cut out. I then found where It would settle in on the minimal distance from the walls. From there I connected five 2x4 steel studs together side by side. I used 5 screws per connection and alternated sides which side the screw went in on. Then I screwed them down to the floor in several spots. I've used it for two years and its still solid and no cracked tiles (knocking on wood) yet.

 

[Dix]

What kind of flooring is the 13 going on? Makes a difference, big time.

Mine went on a slab, it was easy peasy.

Here's Nancy's with her 30

Looking for pics of the 13 in my house.

 

[Joseph Wilson]

Thanks for the replies everyone. The hearth is going over a regular sub floor made of chip board. I'm currently looking for steel studs. I've checked home Depot and Lowes so far but they are clueless as to who would even carry them. I'm looking into a drywall supply company but they don't open until Monday.

 

[chvymn99]

I got mine from Home Depot, they where in the lumber section near the sheet rock.

 

[delp]

Hi Mike,

I think you'll need some Durock above the Micore. Micore is super soft and not suitable for tiling right on it. Also, it may just be me, but can you describe the layers from the bottom up again?

This link has a good breakdown of r-value for typical materials:
(broken link removed)

 

[Mike K]

Hi Mike,

I think you'll need some Durock above the Micore. Micore is super soft and not suitable for tiling right on it. Also, it may just be me, but can you describe the layers from the bottom up again?

This link has a good breakdown of r-value for typical materials:
(broken link removed)

Sorry, I'm typing from a smartphone and they don't like forums lol ..tx for the quick reply.
From floor up...
Osb with vinyl then a hearth pad I created, 50" x 48" slate on 1 layer of micore, then a raised hearth pad that the stove will actually sit on 2x6's 1/2" osb then 2 layers of micore (to give me my 2 r value) then mortar then slate. I do have a leftover piece of durock that I can use on top for strength for tiling. My only concern is about temps and safety under the 2 layers of micore against the osb and 2x6's?
I'll attach a photo. (the hardibacker on the bottom is gone now and replaced with the micore)

 

[begreen]

Here are some links to previous metal stud hearths.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/11825/
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/13600/
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/8289/
If you want to strengthen your metal stud hearth, pop rivet a skin of sheetmetal on top to the studs. Then screw down a couple layers of Durock.
Also, a hearth can also be built by sandwiching micore with a durock top. Micore is R2.33 per inch. Durock is about R .78 per inch. A 1/2" of micore plus 2 layers of durock then tile should get you pretty close.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/k_values_what_does_it_all_mean

 

[delp]

I hope others chime in who know way more, but, here's my 2cents:

In addition to the 16" you need IN FRONT of the stove, from the door face outward (don't mean to scream, just wanna be as clear as I can), you need r-2 below the stove.

From the look of what you've got going on it seems like the stove is on a raised island. So, on that island you've got (top to bottom):
slate - 2 layers of Micore - ½" OSB - 2x6's to frame it out. If that's right, then I think you're good r-value wise. However, I think consensus on this board has always been to put Hardiback/Durock on top of Micore. Mircore is too soft and will shift and then your tiles/thinset/grout will not last as long as they should.

Now, in terms of the "pad" that surrounds the "island," I'm not sure if that's up to snuff in terms of r-value, or even if you'll have the 16" from the face of the door outward that you need, especially with that carpet. But I guess that depends on where the stove sits on the "island."

Also, always a lot of talk here about leaving an air space of 1' in the mix of layers.

Have you done a search for hearth construction, or some other such term?

Again, hope others chime in!

 

[Mike K]

I'll have 20" in front on just the pad and another 6" on the raised platform ...then the sides and back are covered. I should be all set on clearance to combustables. It's just I'm wondering what kind of heat will there be under my two layers of micore and now durock and mortar and tile?
Tx for the help, I appreciate it.

 

[begreen]

I would go for 1" Micore 160 and 2- 1/2" sheets of Durock NexGen, with the seams between the Durock layers staggered? Why? Micore is soft. Doubling up on the Durock will stiffen the overall sandwich quite a bit. The heat underneath the micore should be well within safe tolerance.

 

[delp]

Listen to begreen, he 'da man…stiffen up that Micore and you'll be fine! You're golden, you'll have your r-2 covered and 20" in front of door

 

[Mike K]

Roger that.
I have the extra durock so ya I'll top it off with that ..I only have one sheet though ...plus anymore and I'm flurting with my 84" height minimum.
Thanks again guys, you rock.
What's the chances of me being able to put a 110 outlet box in my riser platform? ...would it be to warm in there, even if I went all metal conduit?

 

[danimal1968]

Sorry, I'm typing from a smartphone and they don't like forums lol ..tx for the quick reply.
From floor up...
Osb with vinyl then a hearth pad I created, 50" x 48" slate on 1 layer of micore, then a raised hearth pad that the stove will actually sit on 2x6's 1/2" osb then 2 layers of micore (to give me my 2 r value) then mortar then slate. I do have a leftover piece of durock that I can use on top for strength for tiling. My only concern is about temps and safety under the 2 layers of micore against the osb and 2x6's?
I'll attach a photo. (the hardibacker on the bottom is gone now and replaced with the micore)

Get the Tapatalk app...makes the forum useable from your phone.

 

[Mike K]

Alright I'm there ...I've had the tapatalk app for awhile, just never used it. Tx again gang!

 

[Mike K]

Ok, I'm going to get back working on this hearth ..plus I'm going to change it up a bit. I'm going to raise the raised part a few inches and add kind of a framed lip around it ...so I can hide some rope light.
Am I right assuming I can use both the raised hearth and the hearth pad combined to get my clearance to combustables, assuming all parts are non-combustable? How about anything vertical, like the actual sides of the raised hearth, do they have to be covered in R2 materials? ....I'm assuming yes, but not positive?

 

[begreen]

Am I right assuming I can use both the raised hearth and the hearth pad combined to get my clearance to combustables, assuming all parts are non-combustable?

How is the hearth being raised? If with non-combustible materials like metal studs, then yes.

How about anything vertical, like the actual sides of the raised hearth, do they have to be covered in R2 materials?

That's a grey area. I would think that if the hearth had a lip that that would shield the vertical face.

 

[Mike K]

Wood studs, but covered in r2. Top of the raised hearth is getting micore, durock, mortar then slate.

 

[begreen]

If the hearth is going to be on studs, I would put down a layer of plywood first before the micore to increase stiffness.

 

[Mike K]

Right ...I forgot to type plywood. I also have this thin sheet of steel (3/32's roughly) that I thought about using somewhere just to dissipate any heat and just because I have it laying around. Should I do in the top sandwich or the sides also?

 

[begreen]

I think the sides will be ok without the full sandwich.