New Furnace Day: Drolet Heat Commander

[brenndatomu]

Would someone be willing to open up their HC and check the position of that standoff?

I got a look at my sisters and it has a gap like that too...

 

[Gbawol42]

Got a question for you guys with the Heat Commander. I am upgrading from a Heatmax 2 and see that the Heat Commander actually has a spot to hook up an outside air kit. The Heatmax 2 did not, they just said to put one close to the furnace if you wanted but there was no physical connection.

So did you guys hook up an outside air kit? I am just debating if it's worth it or not. Forum search leads to about 50/50 split on having them.

 

[brenndatomu]

Got a question for you guys with the Heat Commander. I am upgrading from a Heatmax 2 and see that the Heat Commander actually has a spot to hook up an outside air kit. The Heatmax 2 did not, they just said to put one close to the furnace if you wanted but there was no physical connection.

So did you guys hook up an outside air kit? I am just debating if it's worth it or not. Forum search leads to about 50/50 split on having them.

Gonna toss the SBI dice again, eh?
I did not hook my sisters up to OAK...didn't seem like there was enough air flow there to worry about, but her basement is a lil leaky too, so...would depend on the house I suppose.
I don't have an OAK to the Kuuma, but I do have one to the baro damper...much more air flow there than through the furnace.

 

[Gbawol42]

Gonna toss the SBI dice again, eh?
I did not hook my sisters up to OAK...didn't seem like there was enough air flow there to worry about, but her basement is a lil leaky too, so...would depend on the house I suppose.
I don't have an OAK to the Kuuma, but I do have one to the baro damper...much more air flow there than through the furnace.

Yeah, long story short, it's a money thing.

I'm still leary of hooking my baro to outside air. I would have to burn the furnace for a little and see how clean the combustion is first.

I always just figure the more outside air I pull the less that my heated air is being used for combustion. Like I said it is literally 50/50 on the internet for using them, it's kinda crazy.

 

[brenndatomu]

I'm still leary of hooking my baro to outside air.

The makeup air temp doesn't matter...flue temp will always be the same. The baro just opens up less when its hooked to a cold air source.
Just as with a mixing valve for hot water, if the cold water is 75*, it will take more of it to temper the hot water, but if it is say 50*, it will take less of it to make the same temp finished product.
I have spent years running both ways, and I see no difference in how dirty the flue is (or isn't)

Yeah, long story short, it's a money thing.

I get it...

 

[laynes69]

I hooked up my cold air return on my Caddy Advanced and ended up removing it. Didn't work out for me!

 

[NSGUY]

Hey guys interesting subject, I was just looking into putting OAK on my HC,

So first off I added a manometer and baro to my HC and I have it running much better. But I know my house is quite air tight, and if any exhaust fan or anything is running there is no extra air. probably negitive because even when I run the range hood exhaust I need to crack a window. when starting a fire I have to open a basement door, even when reloading I usually do. I have been noticing a fair bit of soot build up in my heating tubes, I cleaned all out today and had what I think is a fair bit. So I think my combustion could be better.

I think running a OAK really boils down to if you need one or not. I think I do

so is there a actual kit you guys buy or just make up your own, any reason why I couldn't just run dryer vent for it?

Also what would the negatives of running one that Im not thinking of?

 

[brenndatomu]

Also what would the negatives of running one that Im not thinking of?

The OAK pipe (hose) can run pretty cold when its frigid out...but the only real negative that I know of is that with any basement OAK install (that is below ground level, and the OAK source is above the stove/furnace) is that if you have a reverse draft get started the OAK pipe can actually act as a chimney...so the OAK pipe needs to be pretty well sealed up, and metal (or at least not plastic, or combustible anyways)

 

[NSGUY]

The OAK pipe (hose) can run pretty cold when its frigid out...but the only real negative that I know of is that with any basement OAK install (that is below ground level, and the OAK source is above the stove/furnace) is that if you have a reverse draft get started the OAK pipe can actually act as a chimney...so the OAK pipe needs to be pretty well sealed up, and metal (or at least not plastic, or combustible anyways)

well now that you say it, yeah i can see how you may get a reverse flow of air in that situation and thats how mine would be. my air source from outside would be 3 to 4 feet higher then my furnace where the air intake is. Well that sucks lol , I wonder if there is any type of one way air flow valve you can get, and if that would work

 

[brenndatomu]

well now that you say it, yeah i can see how you may get a reverse flow of air in that situation and thats how mine would be. my air source from outside would be 3 to 4 feet higher then my furnace where the air intake is. Well that sucks lol , I wonder if there is any type of one way air flow valve you can get, and if that would work

Do you deal with downdraft issues at all?
I almost never do, so I just used metal pipe and screwed the joints...it works fine.
Plus I think the whole backdraft/ OAK acting as a chimney issue is of more concern with a source of outdoor air (from a higher point than the stove/furnace) that is not direct connected to the stove.

 

[NSGUY]

Do you deal with downdraft issues at all?
I almost never do, so I just used metal pipe and screwed the joints...it works fine.
Plus I think the whole backdraft/ OAK acting as a chimney issue is of more concern with a source of outdoor air (from a higher point than the stove/furnace) that is not direct connected to the stove.

Yeah I never had an issue where the smoke wants to come down the chimney as opposed to going up it.

My issues are on starting a fire, if the basement door is not open I will get smoke leakage out of the furnace, that initial smoke doesn't like going up the chimney, So A.. if I forget to open the door and start a fire I will get some leakage, the second I open the door smoke is gone and flowing good up the chimney, B.. if i open the door before starting a fire there is never an issue, as soon as the fire is going I can shut the door and not have an issue .

The second issue I have is when the fire is at an end or at its last little bit it will kinda smoulder a long , like it just doesn't have enough air, its kind of a heavier smoke that will lay over the house, you can't see it, but depending on the wind, if any and direction, if I open a window or something i can get the smell of it coming in the house, it happens a little more often when its at freezing or a little above as opposed to when its colder.

So i never have an issue with smoke once a fire is going and there is flame, only on start up if the door is not open or at the end when that last little will sometimes smoulder, the odd time i will get the smell of smouldering smoke in the house, I either need to crack a window if its not coming in the window as well or just open the basement door for a few minutes that clears it right up.

since I put the baro in , that seems to be working great , I never seen or got any smoke out of that that I no of, not even at the end of a fire when it will smoulder sometimes. the only thing i noticed is if I never had a fire all day or something and i go down to the basement if i go right over to where the baro is installed on the pipe I will get a little sooty smell right there, but its not within the basement its just right at the baro so thats probably somewhat normal.

 

[sloeffle]

Got a question for you guys with the Heat Commander. I am upgrading from a Heatmax 2 and see that the Heat Commander actually has a spot to hook up an outside air kit. The Heatmax 2 did not, they just said to put one close to the furnace if you wanted but there was no physical connection.

So did you guys hook up an outside air kit? I am just debating if it's worth it or not. Forum search leads to about 50/50 split on having them.

If your house was built recently then I'd install a OAK, if it's and older house that's leaky then I wouldn't. My furnace was in a basement that had a egress door and it was leaky enough that I didn't have to install OAK even though the rim joists etc were spray foamed.

Did you have smoke issues with your Heatmax ? If you didn't have them with your Heatmax then I doubt you'll have them with your HC.

 

[Gbawol42]

If your house was built recently then I'd install a OAK, if it's and older house that's leaky then I wouldn't. My furnace was in a basement that had a egress door and it was leaky enough that I didn't have to install OAK even though the rim joists etc were spray foamed.

Did you have smoke issues with your Heatmax ? If you didn't have them with your Heatmax then I doubt you'll have them with your HC.

No I didn't have any smoke issues.

The main issue I have is the basement is to warm. I thought this would help, the less the stove is taking in basement air the less that need to come down from my main floor to replace it, hopefully that made sense.

 

[sleewok]

Gonna toss the SBI dice again, eh?
I did not hook my sisters up to OAK...didn't seem like there was enough air flow there to worry about, but her basement is a lil leaky too, so...would depend on the house I suppose.
I don't have an OAK to the Kuuma, but I do have one to the baro damper...much more air flow there than through the furnace.

well now that you say it, yeah i can see how you may get a reverse flow of air in that situation and thats how mine would be. my air source from outside would be 3 to 4 feet higher then my furnace where the air intake is. Well that sucks lol , I wonder if there is any type of one way air flow valve you can get, and if that would work

My HC is about 5 feet below my intake for OAK. I'm running solid duct. I had to put in the oak because I have a constant exhaust running to help vent radon and humidity off the basement floor.

I have a very leaky home though. You could try putting a gravity/spring damper in the OAK and just don't put the cap on the other side to isolate the OAK. That would let inside air as well as outside. If your house is tight enough I would imagine the gravity damper opening to draw air as needed. Or you could just put a manual damper in the intake line.

 

[sleewok]

My HC is about 5 feet below my intake for OAK. I'm running solid duct. I had to put in the oak because I have a constant exhaust running to help vent radon and humidity off the basement floor.

I have a very leaky home though. You could try putting a gravity/spring damper in the OAK and just don't put the cap on the other side to isolate the OAK. That would let inside air as well as outside. If your house is tight enough I would imagine the gravity damper opening to draw air as needed. Or you could just put a manual damper in the intake line.

The other thing to consider is with a tight house you are going to pull gas from your furnace at the end of the burn (especially if running range or bathroom vent). The draft is simply too low at this point and the other vents will win. We had our CO alarms going off at the end of burns the first week until I installed our OAK.

 

[salecker]

Up North what we do is use flex ducting and put a loop in it so the cold air gets trapped unless your stove is running, or furnace. there is also a cold air trap you can put on the end of the ducting.

 

[NSGUY]

My HC is about 5 feet below my intake for OAK. I'm running solid duct. I had to put in the oak because I have a constant exhaust running to help vent radon and humidity off the basement floor.

I have a very leaky home though. You could try putting a gravity/spring damper in the OAK and just don't put the cap on the other side to isolate the OAK. That would let inside air as well as outside. If your house is tight enough I would imagine the gravity damper opening to draw air as needed. Or you could just put a manual damper in the intake line.

Yes I actually didn't mention that, besides my house being pretty tight I have an exhaust fan in the basement that runs all the time as well mostly for humidity, its bad in the summer but I don't have a fire then, in the winter like now the humidity collects bad on the warmer rainy days, and I put a few cord of wood in the basement so it helps to keep that nice and dry besides the basement. I'd bet my basement is probably at a slight negative pressure most of the time so if I put am OAK in, I'm thinking it probably wouldn't exhaust air out of it anyhow as it would probably be always having air pulled in through it , into the basement whether I have a fire going or not.

Sleewok so how did the OAK work out for you in the end, I take it, it works as for what you need it to do, I like the gravity/spring damper idea, that may work, also I have an CO sensor as well, but upstairs, I never had that go off, but I'm going to now move it to the basement and see, like I say i only ever get a very little smoke smell is when its a bit warmer like around freezing or a couple degree warmer,

Thanks for the info everyone

 

[trx250r87]

Yes I actually didn't mention that, besides my house being pretty tight I have an exhaust fan in the basement that runs all the time as well mostly for humidity, its bad in the summer but I don't have a fire then, in the winter like now the humidity collects bad on the warmer rainy days, and I put a few cord of wood in the basement so it helps to keep that nice and dry besides the basement. I'd bet my basement is probably at a slight negative pressure most of the time so if I put am OAK in, I'm thinking it probably wouldn't exhaust air out of it anyhow as it would probably be always having air pulled in through it , into the basement whether I have a fire going or not.

Sleewok so how did the OAK work out for you in the end, I take it, it works as for what you need it to do, I like the gravity/spring damper idea, that may work, also I have an CO sensor as well, but upstairs, I never had that go off, but I'm going to now move it to the basement and see, like I say i only ever get a very little smoke smell is when its a bit warmer like around freezing or a couple degree warmer,

Thanks for the info everyone

How about an ERV or HRV? I installed a Panasonic ERV that pulls fresh air into the house and exhausts stale air outside. I can select 50-100 cfm for both intake and exhaust, which allows me to slightly pressurize the house and make up for exhaust fans, dryer, and chimney flues.

ERIC

 

[NSGUY]

How about an ERV or HRV? I installed a Panasonic ERV that pulls fresh air into the house and exhausts stale air outside. I can select 50-100 cfm for both intake and exhaust, which allows me to slightly pressurize the house and make up for exhaust fans, dryer, and chimney flues.

ERIC

Well there is a great idea, I never knew of those. I will definitely look into those a bit. From what i just seen it looks like the Intelli-Balance® 100 is a whole house system that can regulate incoming and out going CFM , The ERV FV - 04VE1 looks to be the one for a single room like a basement, but from what I see I don't think you can adjust the incoming and outgoing CFM .

What model do you have?

Here was my issue with the whole house air exchanger, it was ok in the summer time, but if your running AC it was taking the cold air out and dumping in warmer/hot humid air, in the winter the opposite, took the warm air out and brought in the cold, also in the winter the issue I had was with the wood furnace, it would bring smoke into the house depending on wind etc. so that unit has been unhooked for quite a few years, I went to the humidity fan in the basement and stuff and that has always worked great, I'm sure my house leaks some, and just with windows open/ doors opening etc I always had plenty air exchange. it wasn't a big issue with my newmac but with this furnace the way the drafts works I think it needs a little more neutral too positive air pressure. The air exchanger I have unhooked though I couldn't change the air flow though It was equal in to equal out I believe.

The Intelli-Balance® 100 is a whole house unit I believe but don't see why I couldn't run it just in my basement i could set it for a little positive pressure, I'd be worried about it having the same issue with it bring in smoke though it, but on the other hand if my furnace has the air it needs and is burning cleaner i may not have a smoke issue.

How does yours balance the incoming and outgoing air temp, does it equalize them pretty good? I would think the newer units are better then my older one.

Thanks for the info about the Panasonic ERV.

​

 

[trx250r87]

Well there is a great idea, I never knew of those. I will definitely look into those a bit. From what i just seen it looks like the Intelli-Balance® 100 is a whole house system that can regulate incoming and out going CFM , The ERV FV - 04VE1 looks to be the one for a single room like a basement, but from what I see I don't think you can adjust the incoming and outgoing CFM .

What model do you have?

Here was my issue with the whole house air exchanger, it was ok in the summer time, but if your running AC it was taking the cold air out and dumping in warmer/hot humid air, in the winter the opposite, took the warm air out and brought in the cold, also in the winter the issue I had was with the wood furnace, it would bring smoke into the house depending on wind etc. so that unit has been unhooked for quite a few years, I went to the humidity fan in the basement and stuff and that has always worked great, I'm sure my house leaks some, and just with windows open/ doors opening etc I always had plenty air exchange. it wasn't a big issue with my newmac but with this furnace the way the drafts works I think it needs a little more neutral too positive air pressure. The air exchanger I have unhooked though I couldn't change the air flow though It was equal in to equal out I believe.

The Intelli-Balance® 100 is a whole house unit I believe but don't see why I couldn't run it just in my basement i could set it for a little positive pressure, I'd be worried about it having the same issue with it bring in smoke though it, but on the other hand if my furnace has the air it needs and is burning cleaner i may not have a smoke issue.

How does yours balance the incoming and outgoing air temp, does it equalize them pretty good? I would think the newer units are better then my older one.

Thanks for the info about the Panasonic ERV.

​

I have had the Panasonic Intelli-Ballance 100 for about 4-5 years and I run it on 60-70cfm in and 50cfm exhaust. You can also set how many minutes per hour you want it to run. I usually do anywhere from 40-60 per hour.


The efficiency of the unit depends on what speed you have it set at but I have measured intake vs exhaust temps with IR gun and it's pretty impressive at lower speeds. I think there is a cold weather version that is suppose to function better at below freezing temps but is a little less efficient as far as I remember.

Eric

 

[sleewok]

Yes I actually didn't mention that, besides my house being pretty tight I have an exhaust fan in the basement that runs all the time as well mostly for humidity, its bad in the summer but I don't have a fire then, in the winter like now the humidity collects bad on the warmer rainy days, and I put a few cord of wood in the basement so it helps to keep that nice and dry besides the basement. I'd bet my basement is probably at a slight negative pressure most of the time so if I put am OAK in, I'm thinking it probably wouldn't exhaust air out of it anyhow as it would probably be always having air pulled in through it , into the basement whether I have a fire going or not.

Sleewok so how did the OAK work out for you in the end, I take it, it works as for what you need it to do, I like the gravity/spring damper idea, that may work, also I have an CO sensor as well, but upstairs, I never had that go off, but I'm going to now move it to the basement and see, like I say i only ever get a very little smoke smell is when its a bit warmer like around freezing or a couple degree warmer,

Thanks for the info everyone

Installing the OAK solved my issue with carbon monoxide immediately. With the vent in my basement I have a constant supply of air pulling even when the furnace is not running. It sort of acts like a make-up air supply for my ventilation. ... Anyways, I haven't had a single issue at the end of my burns since installing it. I still get smoke when starting a fire, but that's partly because my wood is not always fully seasoned.

 

[NSGUY]

Installing the OAK solved my issue with carbon monoxide immediately. With the vent in my basement I have a constant supply of air pulling even when the furnace is not running. It sort of acts like a make-up air supply for my ventilation. ... Anyways, I haven't had a single issue at the end of my burns since installing it. I still get smoke when starting a fire, but that's partly because my wood is not always fully seasoned.

Thanks sleevwok
my issue is very similar to yours, the more I look at it I think my immediate fix and cheapest is to run a OAK. Is yours just a straight run from the outside and dropped down to the furnace, or do you have any dampener or anything special done with your.

Is yours connected right to the furnace?

thanks for the info.

 

[sloeffle]

Yes I actually didn't mention that, besides my house being pretty tight I have an exhaust fan in the basement that runs all the time as well mostly for humidity, its bad in the summer but I don't have a fire then, in the winter like now the humidity collects bad on the warmer rainy days, and I put a few cord of wood in the basement so it helps to keep that nice and dry besides the basement. I'd bet my basement is probably at a slight negative pressure most of the time so if I put am OAK in, I'm thinking it probably wouldn't exhaust air out of it anyhow as it would probably be always having air pulled in through it , into the basement whether I have a fire going or not.

Sleewok so how did the OAK work out for you in the end, I take it, it works as for what you need it to do, I like the gravity/spring damper idea, that may work, also I have an CO sensor as well, but upstairs, I never had that go off, but I'm going to now move it to the basement and see, like I say i only ever get a very little smoke smell is when its a bit warmer like around freezing or a couple degree warmer,

Thanks for the info everyone

If you are using electric to make hot water I would look into a HPHW. It will dehumidify your basement 365 days a year and save you a ton of money on your electric bill for making hot water.

 

[sleewok]

Thanks sleevwok
my issue is very similar to yours, the more I look at it I think my immediate fix and cheapest is to run a OAK. Is yours just a straight run from the outside and dropped down to the furnace, or do you have any dampener or anything special done with your.

Is yours connected right to the furnace?

thanks for the info.

I have a direct connection from outside to the furnace. I plan to put in a manual damper to control the air in windy days.

 

[JRHAWK9]

Keep in mind, from what I was told, proper gasification is dependent on pre-heated air being used for combustion. Using outside air for combustion may affect this if the method used for preheating doesn't heat the cold outside air enough.