New EPA regulations?

[StihlHead]

That's odd, I pulled the data off of King 5 News, as of 3:15pm yesterday and the local news here listed it today.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/50470670

But the general Stage 2 burning limits are accurate as far as I know.

 

[begreen]

Smoke em if ya got em' (EPA phase 2 and cleanly please).



(broken link removed to http://www.pscleanair.org/airq/status.aspx)

 

[StihlHead]

You would think that King5 would have read that web page... um, well, the local news brain trust for you... never mind.

Bimbo blonde on typical PNW TV news: "Today will be 40 degrees and warm and sunny! Unless we get lovely snow!" Smile...

 

[Doug MacIVER]

Quite to the contrary. Selling dirty vehicles, stoves, engines hurts us in the global marketplace. Developing nations, in particular, China and India want cleaner solutions. Europe is also looking for them. We are more competitive when the products we make for the domestic market are equally marketable globally. It's another reason why we should convert off the Imperial system to metric. Only Liberia and Burma remain on this archaic standard.

You've got to be kidding. China will copy any product we make ,use our restrictions for our use and build it in a dirty plant.Then we'll find out the paint has solvents in it we can't use and their cast,if it be that type, is substandard.Cleaner solutions! No improvement in their air as seen by post in this thread.How manyUS made stoves are sold in China,I'll let you look that up,I won't waste my time.
What was that B. Russell said?
one more thing, go ahead and cut your wood in centimeters.

 

[Treacherous]

How manyUS made stoves are sold in China,I'll let you look that up,I won't waste my time.
What was that B. Russell said?

Last summer when I took Travis Industries factory tour I met Kurt Rumens (founder of Lopi and President of Travis Industries). He told our group they are opening up a couple sales outlets in China for their US manufactured stoves. He stated the market was wealthy Chinese who are interested in quality US and European goods.

 

[Doug MacIVER]

Last summer when I took Travis Industries factory tour I met Kurt Rumens (founder of Lopi and President of Travis Industries). He told our group they are opening up a couple sales outlets in China for their US manufactured stoves. He stated the market was wealthy Chinese who are interested in quality US and European goods.

one.

 

[begreen]

You've got to be kidding. China will copy any product we make ,use our restrictions for our use and build it in a dirty plant.Then we'll find out the paint has solvents in it we can't use and their cast,if it be that type, is substandard.Cleaner solutions! No improvement in their air as seen by post in this thread.How manyUS made stoves are sold in China,I'll let you look that up,I won't waste my time.
What was that B. Russell said?
one more thing, go ahead and cut your wood in centimeters.

China buys lots of our vehicles and motors, lots. And we sell lots of woodstoves in Japan and Korea as well. American products usually stand for quality. Folks around the world will pay for that quality as long as we keep it up.

 

[jharkin]

The Chinese have a fascination with Buick ( they pronounce it 'bic') and pretty much anything else American. However the models they get are not the same as are sold here and are built in local factories. German cars are also popular, all the cabs are VW and you see BMW and Mercedes on the street.

Chinese manufacturingis still dirty but the people are increasingly unhappy with the conditions. The government knows this and is under a lot of pressure to clean things up and keep the peace. In spite of their efforts they can't hide the truth in the info age and they know it. When you travel over there you see solar going up all over the place and all kinds of efforts to reduce electric usage etc.

The still have along way to go however. I will resist the temptation to go on my usual rant against people who read and believe unfounded stereotypes of countries they have never visited.

 

[Doug MacIVER]

The Chinese have a fascination with Buick ( they pronounce it 'bic') and pretty much anything else American. However the models they get are not the same as are sold here and are built in local factories. German cars are also popular, all the cabs are VW and you see BMW and Mercedes on the street.

Chinese manufacturingis still dirty but the people are increasingly unhappy with the conditions. The government knows this and is under a lot of pressure to clean things up and keep the peace. In spite of their efforts they can't hide the truth in the info age and they know it. When you travel over there you see solar going up all over the place and all kinds of efforts to reduce electric usage etc.

The still have along way to go however. I will resist the temptation to go on my usual rant against people who read and believe unfounded stereotypes of countries they have never visited.

They have visited my factory without physically being there.I've lost upwards to 1 million in business to them and the jobs that went with those products, Example ,the mens elevator shoes worn by thousands of short people,thanks randy neuman,I make the insole.Not any more.That insole now comes to the USA, with it's dozen or so operations, for a cost of less than than the materials to make it stateside,landed.#2 A $ .04 operation cutting felt for toys,that is four cents?#3 an adjustable heel pad for people with uneven leg length, thousands of pieces, 10 operations, jobs, same story as the elevator in sole.

and you slyly tell me I don't know what I'm talking about?My story is the same story in the clothing,under garment, furniture,you name it industry.You'll be happy with your token companies,shoes have a few Alden,AllenEdmonds, and our shining token,New Balence. They still make running shoe here in the USA.More than Phil Knight can say.JMHO

 

[Huntindog1]

You guys can keep focus on the Chinese stealing your buisness but american companies are filling engineering jobs and other jobs here at home by the thousands with people from other countries.

What has happened in the mean time wake up call next election what used to be the majority voting in this country will no longer be a majority.

Welcome to the new USA.

 

[TradEddie]

Welcome to the new USA.

As one of those foreigners filling your vacant science and engineering jobs, thank you, I'm enjoying it here.

TE

 

[Doug MacIVER]

You guys can keep focus on the Chinese stealing your buisness but american companies are filling engineering jobs and other jobs here at home by the thousands with people from other countries.

What has happened in the mean time wake up call next election what used to be the majority voting in this country will no longer be a majority.

Welcome to the new USA.

when you produce things with your hands like a shoe it takes people. engineers design the machine hands run it,even with all the advances in tech in an old industry still need hands to last a shoe , cut the leather ,in high end stuff stitch it, ect. people at that end obviously aren't engineer types,but we did supply a decent living for many for a good long time.hands in china in today shoe factories make what we did in the 1950's or even a little less.
the population here is forever changing.not from europe any more now as you know, far east and south of the boarder and south america, nothing new just a slower influx

 

[Doug MacIVER]

As one of those foreigners filling your vacant science and engineering jobs, thank you, I'm enjoying it here.

TE

welcome to the USA may you enjoy sucess

 

[StihlHead]

You guys can keep focus on the Chinese stealing your buisness but american companies are filling engineering jobs and other jobs here at home by the thousands with people from other countries.

What has happened in the mean time wake up call next election what used to be the majority voting in this country will no longer be a majority.

Welcome to the new USA.

My engineering job designing microprocessors went to China 8 years ago. But the large US companies still claim that they cannot fill engineering jobs with US employees. They have been pulling that crap for about 20 years now to get cheap H1-B labor here. In truth though, most of the better engineering jobs have been off-shored to India and China.

Majority? Wake up call? We have been sold down the river long ago.

 

[Doug MacIVER]

My engineering job designing microprocessors went to China 8 years ago. But the large US companies still claim that they cannot fill engineering jobs with US employees. They have been pulling that crap for about 20 years now to get cheap H1-B labor here. In truth though, most of the better engineering jobs have been off-shored to India and China.

Majority? Wake up call? We have been sold down the river long ago.

there is no boundry on quality ,it's found everywhere in the world.question is should other places like china have to live under our epa rules when then export products here. chances are they'd tell us to go sh!t in our hat.

 

[save$]

Do your homework when you spend your money. If you want American jobs, then they have to be supported. I have found that some products do cost a little more, but in the long run, you really are investing in our children's future when you buy American made products. I think there is once again an American made tv. From what I read, they are selling very well. I wish Apple would come home if only to supply this market. There is more to it than labor cost. Taxes and nimbys discourage domestic growth. There was a nearby town where they a had a sewerage treatment plant. There was a candle factory that wanted to locate in a vacated paper making pant that was close to the sewerage plant. Some nimbys got wind of the proposed candle plant, they put up such a stink that the cande factory said they would go where the jobs and taxes were welcomed. Go figure.

 

[Retired Guy]

Before you all go nuts worrying, did any one read the dates on this? It's seven years from now, with a possible 5 year extension. And most of the current stoves in production now meet the standard. Otherwise they could not be sold in WA or OR. (Guess where a lot of your stoves are made.) Relax, the sky is not falling. And our govt. is not the enemy.

Seems like there will be lots of productivity and production in providing solutions to these issues. That = jobs.

Ok by me, 7 Years - I'll be dead then.

 

[Huntindog1]

Do your homework when you spend your money. If you want American jobs, then they have to be supported. I have found that some products do cost a little more, but in the long run, you really are investing in our children's future when you buy American made products. I think there is once again an American made tv. From what I read, they are selling very well. I wish Apple would come home if only to supply this market. There is more to it than labor cost. Taxes and nimbys discourage domestic growth. There was a nearby town where they a had a sewerage treatment plant. There was a candle factory that wanted to locate in a vacated paper making pant that was close to the sewerage plant. Some nimbys got wind of the proposed candle plant, they put up such a stink that the cande factory said they would go where the jobs and taxes were welcomed. Go figure.

We were talking about hire Americans. US companies are recruiting employees by the thousands from over seas and giving them the jobs your kids might need someday . Long term reality is that the future of America isnt our future anymore its the future of people in other countries.

Take this one step further is there is not just only supply and demand of goods and services there is supply and demand of employees. My going to other countries the big US companies are short changing the supply and demand of the American worker. They are increasing the supply by bringing in excess workers ,then that waters down the wages.

If your skill is in demand then your wages should naturally go up as the demand for you goes up. But your demand for your skills is going down as they flood the market with workers from all over the world.

 

[jharkin]

They have visited my factory without physically being there.I've lost upwards to 1 million in business to them and the jobs that went with those products, Example ,the mens elevator shoes worn by thousands of short people,thanks randy neuman,I make the insole.Not any more.That insole now comes to the USA, with it's dozen or so operations, for a cost of less than than the materials to make it stateside,landed.#2 A $ .04 operation cutting felt for toys,that is four cents?#3 an adjustable heel pad for people with uneven leg length, thousands of pieces, 10 operations, jobs, same story as the elevator in sole.

and you slyly tell me I don't know what I'm talking about?My story is the same story in the clothing,under garment, furniture,you name it industry.You'll be happy with your token companies,shoes have a few Alden,AllenEdmonds, and our shining token,New Balence. They still make running shoe here in the USA.More than Phil Knight can say.JMHO

I was not attacking you personally... Just the implication that people seem to think the Chinese don't care about their sorry environment. Their people do, their government put economic growth first, but that is ...slowly.. But is changing.

What I don't agree with is the race to the bottom. The idea that to beat them we have to deregulate and be dirtier here. That way we all loose.... And in fact we would never get jobs back anyway as its cost of living, currency manipulation and subsidy that gives them the cost advantage much ,ore then their loose environmental rules.

 

[Doug MacIVER]

I was not attacking you personally... Just the implication that people seem to think the Chinese don't care about their sorry environment. Their people do, their government put economic growth first, but that is ...slowly.. But is changing.

What I don't agree with is the race to the bottom. The idea that to beat them we have to deregulate and be dirtier here. That way we all loose.... And in fact we would never get jobs back anyway as its cost of living, currency manipulation and subsidy that gives them the cost advantage much ,ore then their loose environmental rules.

Your not reading, we cannot do it UNILATERALLY. With no repercussions they'll still produce the cheapest way,it is the nature of business. Look at the recent recall of milo's kichen dog treats.They didn't find this stuff bad, we did. Don't give me that us companies have the same problem, China in general don't care as much as we do.If we add regs,make sure that they play by the same rule book or don't let it in.Free trade/fair trade, make it work and American workers have a chance.India pretty much the same,thanks for your reply

 

[jharkin]

Chinese business leaders and the corrupt party bosses don't care... It is Not the same as the general population.

I agree we are too soft on them, but if you want to keep talking in stereotypes I'm done.

 

[TradEddie]

Doug, I have to point out that your writing style isn't exactly a shining beacon for the quality of US education or products...

EPA regulations are intended to save lives and protect the environment. Of course, politics and vested interests corrupt the intent, and practicalities prevent truly effective action, but if losing some jobs to China is the cost of clean air, that's fine by me. We could take back some jobs from China by eliminating EPA, OSHA, CAFE Standards, minimum wages or child labor laws, but is that how you'd like to live?

TE

 

[Doug MacIVER]

Chinese business leaders and the corrupt party bosses don't care... It is Not the same as the general population.

I agree we are too soft on them, but if you want to keep talking in stereotypes I'm done.

PLEASE, not one word in my statements about the general public. Trade is between countries right, that means governments.We are having a discussion about epa here,part of our gov't. im sure all peoples of the world do the same about theirs. we have to live by our laws,like them or not, as they live with their laws. we just discuss it more freely.

as i said before quality has no boundries, today china has probably some of the finest shoemakers in the world, good enough to make "foot joy classics".can't resist here foot joy was a great customer of over fifty years, oh well i regress.

 

[Doug MacIVER]

Doug, I have to point out that your writing style isn't exactly a shining beacon for the quality of US education or products...

EPA regulations are intended to save lives and protect the environment. Of course, politics and vested interests corrupt the intent, and practicalities prevent truly effective action, but if losing some jobs to China is the cost of clean air, that's fine by me. We could take back some jobs from China by eliminating EPA, OSHA, CAFE Standards, minimum wages or child labor laws, but is that how you'd like to live?

TE

never said eliminating those departments of our gov't is what this is about,so the answer is no. just make sure we have an equal playing field.my statement about osha was to point out how insane some rules are. hell my style got meself as batchelor of science, arizona '73. meself just for fun if you didn't get it.

 

[Doug MacIVER]

Doug, I have to point out that your writing style isn't exactly a shining beacon for the quality of US education or products...

EPA regulations are intended to save lives and protect the environment. Of course, politics and vested interests corrupt the intent, and practicalities prevent truly effective action, but if losing some jobs to China is the cost of clean air, that's fine by me. We could take back some jobs from China by eliminating EPA, OSHA, CAFE Standards, minimum wages or child labor laws, but is that how you'd like to live?

TE

just noticed your reference to products? if you've ever worn a quality american made men's shoe like{here comes the list} E.T. Wright, Foot-Joy,Frye, Walk-Over,Alden,Florsheim.Herman Suvivors,if you served, military dress, Johnson & murphy, you walked on my products. i'm sure you must have been able to find the poor quality of my product in those great names .condescending statements and attitudes really have no place in a good discussion,but i'm sure you already know that.