New and confused owner of HearthStone Heritage

[mikeathens]

If you haven't roasted yourself out of the room yet - you haven't gotten it up to temperature I don't think the fan will even be necessary once you get that stove up to 450+!! I think it would be a good idea to get that thermometer to put on the top middle stone, at the least. Do you have double wall connector pipe? If so, then the only way that I know of to monitor chimney temps is with the probe thermometer (if you want to). It is as simple as drilling a 1/4" hole in the pipe where you want it, and inserting it in the hole. It "seals" itself when you install the thermometer. You DON'T want to do this in your double-walled insulated chimney - only in the connector pipe (the pipe that comes directly out of the flue collar).

 

[bcnu]

[quote author="Mike from Athens" date="1200618600"]I added a flue damper to my stove and was able to get longer burn times and better temperature control using the primary air lever. I use the damper to its fullest capability when the chimney is getting really hot. Seems to help with better secondary burn, too.]


MFA - just how does the damper work? Manual operation? How is is different from a barometric damper - think i have the right term. How easy/difficult is it to install? And, since i can't get to my vent piping i doubt if i could use one. There are times, when the fire is really burning and the primary is shut off. I wish I could damp it down a little more as it seems like it would increase heat and conserve wood. Is that the purpose? And with our modern stoves, isl it likely produce enough of a benefit - ie might i save half cord or more a year??

 

[mikeathens]

bcnu - yes, that;s the benefit. it is like the barometric, except there is no air added above the firebox (those let air in the chimney to allow part of the draft to originate after the firebox). The flue damper simply blocks the flue, letting less gasses pass, and thus lowering the strentgh of the draft.

Mine came from hardware store - drilled two holes in the pipe about 6" above flue collar at 180 degrees apart, and install.

I would get your draft checked first. OR...if you have enough connector pipe to do it, just install one and experiment!! Worst case is you would just leave it open all the time with no difference from what you have now. I guess is also another safety feature in case of a chimney fire...

Check your draft is in doubt!! (0.06" - 0.1" water)

EDIT: yes, manual damper. I have increaed burn times by an hour or more with mine...

 

[karl]

I don't know alot about soap stone stoves, but that half a cord since Christmas seems like alot. I'm in the same climate as you with twice the house, and I've barely gone through that much wood since Christmas. And my wood isn't the best either.

Are you closing the air control down on the stove once it gets going? I run mine wide open for about 30 mins in the morning to get a good fire going and then I close the air down almost all the way and it puts out good heat for hours.

 

[Dottie]

I've been doing the same, sort of...When the fire has died down to some coals overnight, or when I have been at work, I put more wood in and then open either the ash door or the side door a little with the damper open until it's burning hot, then I close the door and keep the damper open until it catches back up. After it catches I then turn the damper down to about half open if I'm going to be home and awake or down low if I'm going to work or sleep.

I know that I'm not doing something right or something is wrong in the stove or setup. My window glass has developed a white deposit that doesn't go away even when fired up as it is supposed to and as you say it's burning too much wood. It hasn't even been "winter" here yet.

Thanks for your post.

 

[mikeathens]

I hope others chime in because I am not some type of authority on this stuff...just a wood burner with a little experience!! But...

When it's cold, I can easily go though a cord in a month. I don't think 1/2 cord is really that much since Christmas. I mean, that would only be 2 1/2 cord for the whole winter if you assume 1/2 per month.

As for the white deposits...sounds more like ash build up on the glass. If it's black, that stuff will burn off. Ash won't. Just get a crumpbled piece of paper and rub it off like you were cleaning a window (don't use any liquids). Just dry paper...

Did you get a thermometer for the top stone yet? If so, what temps did you see last night?

 

[hearthtools]

If I keep the stove running almost wide open to mid-way open it heats the living room after about 2-3 hours to a moderately warm temperature

If you have the stove wide open most of the energy in your wood is going straight up the chimney along with plenty of warm air from the room.

How is the wood? Does it steam or get visibly wet at the ends when you load the stove? If you close the damper completely does it continue burning? How long does it take for the wood to light when you reload the stove?

Bokehman
I dont know what you are saying?
New wood stoves dont have FLUE dampers unless you add them if you have an over draft issures.
In 12 years of selling hearthtstones I have only had to put one in once and that was because the stove had 25 feet of pipe.

NEW CLEAN BURNINGS stove regulate the air coming into the stoves not out of the stove
so your statement of "If you have the stove wide open most of the energy in your wood is going straight up the chimney along with plenty of warm air from the room."
On her stove havening the damper wide open is Giving the stove MORE air into the primary and secondary combustion tubes Increasing the air to fuel ratio and the wood will burn hotter.

 

[swestall]

Well Dottie, you have to separate the facts. First, the stove is going to burn what you put in it. Second, as you operate it more, you gain more insight how to operate it to get the most heat from it.
Did you go to the Chimney Sweep site and read that info on lighting/burning a soapstone? What others have said about letting it get going well and then damping it down to get the most heat and longest burn is correct. Try after 10-15 minutes going to 1/2 and then after another 10 minutes 1/4. At that setting you should have some pretty good secondary burns going. You can tell those because you will see flames that appear to be streaming out of the burn tubes.
You will need that stovetop thermometer: and it should read between 350-500 - You'll get better heat at 400+.
Also, you don't need to stuff the stove if you are attending it every 4 hours or so. Try three splits, two on bottom and on across them on top.

 

[Dottie]

Well, the wood consumption would sound ok to me if it had actually been cold, we had 60-70 degree temperature one week. Also, I've read that one cord of wood equals 200+ (can't remember, but about 250 gallons of heating oil) and I usually keep the house so cold I use less than 300 gallon a year. Anyway the house hasn't been really warm with the wood and it hasn't really been cold outside yet, but I'm hoping to learn to do it right before that happens.

It was snowy yesterday, so I only stopped at the one hardware store yesterday and the one they had was junky and was for stovepipes, but I went out at lunch and found a Condar/Condor ? one that looked ok and I have seen recommended on this forum. Hopefully I'll have some sort of pattern and will know better what it, and I am doing by Tuesday. I'm off the next three days and it's supposed to be a little colder.

When I went home I followed some other advice, garnered from this wonderful site and rubbed it with some crumpled newspaper, a lot came off and I wasn't even trying very hard, so I think if I get the stove cooled off at some time it won't be a problem to get it shinning like new.

As always I really appreciate your willingness to help. Wish me luck and I'll keep you posted when I know a bit more....then I'll probably have a dozen more questions! I do love the look of my stove and I hope that someday we will be two old relics together. I have a feeling that it will age better than me...probably retain its value too!

Take care.

Dottie

 

[mikeathens]

Well, the wood consumption would sound ok to me if it had actually been cold, we had 60-70 degree temperature one week. Also, I've read that one cord of wood equals 200+ (can't remember, but about 250 gallons of heating oil) and I usually keep the house so cold I use less than 300 gallon a year. Anyway the house hasn't been really warm with the wood and it hasn't really been cold outside yet, but I'm hoping to learn to do it right before that happens.

First, I could place one log every 12 hours in my stove for an entire month, have it equal 1/4 to 1/2 cord, and still have a cold house (and get little heat out of it). Just because you wnet through that much doesn't mean something's wrong.

As for "heat value", a quick search says that #2 fuel oil contains 115,000 Btu/gal and seasoned wood (didn't specify species) contains 15.3 MMBtu/cord. With that said, it would take (15,300,000 Btu) / (115,000 Btu/gallon) = 133 gallons of fuel oil to equal a cord of wood. So, you are off a bit.

In other words, 250 gallons of #2 fuel oil is roughly equivalent to 2 cords of wood.

EDIT: also, your stove is probably not as efficient as the oil furnace, PLUS, I'm sure once the thing's crankin', your house will be much warmer, so I would gess that maybe you should plan for at least 3 cords/year.

 

[Dottie]

In answer to bokehman, I guess I named it incorrectly, but I meant the sliding thing that regulates the air located in the bottom front of the stove. That seems like a damper to me since it regulates the air, but you are correct I haven't had a damper put in the stovepipe. As I think I mentioned it was lined with a HomeSaver and I think that they have a double wall, so I guess the installer will have to put both a thermometer and a damper in if it's needed.

The house is a two story with basement and attic and the ceilings are 8 1/2 ft, so I suppose that the chimney is at least 25 ft and less that 30 ft.

In response to Swestall, I watched a movie about starting a fire, and I've been reading lots I think I must have read that one, but I'll look again and make sure. Talking about splits...how big is a split, ideally, for these stoves? Mine are mostly split in two or four pieces from what appears to be pieces of wood maybe 18-20 inches when whole. Some are not split, but are maybe 4 inches across.

I don't think I've noticed fire streaming out of any pipes, but when the fire is going it covers up the baffles and I guess when it is down to coals, it's not hot enough.

Life gets complicate when you try to do it right, don't you think?

Anyway, thank you both for your good advice and I'll know more after this weekend since at least I found a stove top thermometer.

Dottie

 

[struggle]

The stove top thermometer is a good place to start. That chimney sounds very long to me and I am betting most likely you will need a inline pipe dampner installed. I bet the stove is overdrafting which means more heat is being pulled out of the chimney to fast.

Have you dampned it down all the way and seen just secondary fire of the tubes in the top of the firebox?

Let us know what you get for stove top temps.

 

[bcnu]

[xAs always I really appreciate your willingness to help. Wish me luck and I'll keep you posted when I know a bit more....then I'll probably have a dozen more questions! I do love the look of my stove and I hope that someday we will be two old relics together. I have a feeling that it will age better than me...probably retain its value too!
Dottie[/quote]


Dottie,
don't sell yourself sort in this relationship. It's much like having a new flame who has struck a cord on your heartstrings. The more time you spend together the easier to see strengths and weaknesses. You'll get to know your new love, I mean stove, and will soon be enjoying intimate evenings together. Then, before long you will be fanning the flames of passion as temperatures soar only for the relationship to cool down and then, once again, be rekindled all over again. And yes you may someday find your friend listed on Ebay or Craigs List - but you are priceless beyond measure.

 

[Dottie]

Thanks for your comments and advice and thanks to bcnu for the good laugh. After a weekend taking my new friend's temperature I should know more about the situation. Hope that it doesn't have to undergo minor surgery (insertion of damper and thermometer) to do better, but if it does, it's the least I can do if we are going to have a long and warm relationship.

Hope you all stay warm and have a good weekend.

Dottie

 

[bokehman]

Bokehman

NEW CLEAN BURNINGS stove regulate the air coming into the stoves not out of the stove
so your statement of "If you have the stove wide open most of the energy in your wood is going straight up the chimney along with plenty of warm air from the room."
On her stove havening the damper wide open is Giving the stove MORE air into the primary and secondary combustion tubes Increasing the air to fuel ratio and the wood will burn hotter.

Hi! I didn't mention flue dampers at all; I don't know where you got that from. The stove damper controls the primary air, not the secondary. Secondary is preset. If the primary is open there is not enough dwell time in the stove to extract the heat energy from the hot exhaust gas before it is lost up the chimney. Also having the damper wide open means the stove is continuously being quenched by the high volume of incoming air. Maybe running with the damper wide open may produce a bit more heat but the BTU output per pound of wood will drop drastically and also drag lots of preheated air out of the room.

 

[Highbeam]

While we wait for Dottie's report....

I have witnesses Bokehman's theory. I'll have a good fire rolling along for a long time with a good fuel load and about 30% open air control. As the stove top temps approach 425, very slowly of course with soapstone, I will shut the primary air damper closer to zero. All the way to zero for overnight. The temperature almost always climbs very quickly to 450 or 475. Much more quickly than if I had just left the air control at 30%. This phenomenon can be a bit scarey when you are trying to cool a very hot stove by shutting the primary air down since that really just heats it up even quicker. I have thought that maybe the heat is staying in the stove longer rather than being sent to the chimney. If I had a flue thermometer I could verify this.

If the wood is wet then shutting the primary air down will always snuff the fire in my experience. It just ticks off the dry wood. The heritage is predictable is heating up to 450 with the damper completely closed so long as you close the damper at around 425. Perfect.

Since Dottie has a liner that is probably hooked to the rear of the heritage would an inline damper simply plug onto the stove and then the liner attach to that? Her chimney sounds quite long. A good candidate for a flue damper. 30' of nice new, possibly insulated liner would create a superb draft.

I consume an easy cord per month.

 

[Dottie]

Hello everyone,

Well, I kept a “journal” over the long weekend and tried some of your suggestions. I bought a thermometer and it has been so helpful. I had no idea that the stove had to be fired for as long as it did to get to 400 degrees. I finally got the living room toasty and the upstairs warm as well, but the kitchen and dining rooms are still very cool, no matter really, although I did try putting a box fan in the dining room doorway and blowing air through the living room. It helped some, but I don’t particularly like the cool air breezing through the living room.

I bought some other additional things as result of the stove, (an additional vacuum for the living room, another smoke detector, large covered galvanized trash can for the ashes, “fat” wood, etc.); I’m beginning to feel like the old joke about the cost of heating with wood! Anyway, things are looking up, it was really cold this weekend, but I managed to stay nice and toasty. I do have some more questions if you will bear with me.

1. If you have a huge bed of coals, should you always add a log(s) to keep it burning, or can you let it consume itself and only add wood if the temperature falls below the 300-350 range?
2. If you have a bed of coals that had reached 400 degrees, but has fallen back to 200 degrees, do you need to keep bringing the temperature back up to the 350-400 degree range?
3. When people talk about packing the firebox for the night etc., it sounds as though they are putting lots of wood in. Do people use smaller pieces of wood? Mine will only take 3-4 pieces of wood the way they are cut.
4. Most importantly, if I haven’t put any wood in the fire since loading it the night before, there are still some coals, but lots of ash. The stove top is in the 110-150 degree range, it then takes the stove about 2 ½ to 3 hours to reach the secondary burn heat. What can I do about this? I really don’t want to have to get up at 4:30 to start the stove so I can turn it down before leaving for work at 7:20. Is there some kind of wood that burns really hot? Or should I resign myself to doing what I did this morning and getting up at 3:00 and 5:30 to keep the secondary burn going.
5. Could someone explain to me what is the optimum way to burn this stove efficiently; take it up to 400 degrees, and then gradually back down to 325 or so? It seems, from Highbeam's post, that maybe the air control (damper?) at the bottom of the stove may safely and efficiently be set very low for optimum wood burning.
6. Do you call round pieces of unsplit wood “rounds” or just logs, and do you call the split ones “splits” or something else.

Thank you all for helping me to learn about the operation of these stoves. I really appreciate your advice and help.

 

[swestall]

HI, it is good to see you now understand that it takes a while to get it up there.

You can get a build up of coals pretty easy. If you open the damper wide open for the last hour of your burn, it will help to burn the coals down. You can also rake them forward to where the air comes in and leave the damper open. When they burn down pretty much, you'll want to get the fire going again. You should plan on cleaning the ashes if they get over the air draft input. This task is a pain. You have to push the coals away, or find a way to rake/sift them from the large coals, you are going to get some small coals unless you burn them down all the way. (not possible if you are burning 24/7). That ash can is a good idea, a pair of welding gloves too... Letting the temp get down to 275 or so is OK, its just going to take a bit of time to get back up.

You have learned these stoves take a while to get hot and a while to cool off. The stove also has to be at 375-450 to put out reasonable heat. So, you have to get it up there to heat with it, experiment with adding wood to do that. When you are there you can just keep adding a split or two to accomplish that.

Add the most wood you can for a long burn. Mix in smaller/bigger to do that. If your splits are big, get a small maul and split some big ones. (Yes another woodstove tool)

There are two ways to keep the temp up in the AM. (logical) Load up for the long burn later or get up earlier. Also, you will need to experiment with shutting the damper down for the long burn once the stove is loaded up. At first try, full, 1/2, 1/4 then 1/8 closed. I don't shut down all the way as that slow of a burn doesn't get me a lot of heat. You should be able to get a 7-8 hour burn with 275 and coals.

Again, take it up to 350-450 (you can actually get it up to 500-525) and then let the spits burn, down to coaling, add wood and repeat to keep it up to temp. Closing the damper down to 1/8 will give you fair temp maintenance but you should open it all the way when the coals begin to drop and get just a bit more heat out while burning some coal off.

Technically, I guess, splits are split pieces and rounds are unsplit pieces. I don't burn rounds that are more than 3 inches or so. I do burn large splits, 4-6 inches. These larger ones overnight, mixed with some small stuff in the middle.

If you are getting ready for a long burn, try getting a bottom layer of splits burning until they start to get really charred and fire is getting up. Then add the next/final layer on top of that; let it get up there again and start damping down. Produces good result.


Play with it; its going to take a while to really understand your installation. Each installation will act a bit differently. You've gotten by the big one, the next is your learning curve. Next season, you'll be right on top of this.

Buy your next year's wood now if you can, even if you have to let it sit till it gets warmer with just a tarp over it.

Best Regards,
SW

 

[AndyD1480]

Awesome analysis Swestall! I'm in CT and just purchased a Heritage a couple of weeks ago. One of things that's interesting about this stove is that when something is off, you feel very little heat (either shutting the air down too quickly, using wet/unseasoned wood, etc), but if you get it right and figure out how to burn in it, man it throws some heat! Holy cow!

My experience went something like this:

Fired up the stove and was waaaay to fidgetty with it. Watched for a bit, then dampered down the primary air, and came back to find the fire had gone out. Then I used some wood that was a little less than seasoned, which burned great, but didnt put out as much heat. Finally got some really dry, hardwood and let the first batch just burn somewhere in teh upper half of the air intake. Let that burn down and get a nice hot firebox and good amount of coals. Then you can fill up the box with wood, let it catch fire and shut it down to about an 1/8th. For whatever reason, there's a huge difference to 1/8 of the air down to all the way down.

Actually, last night I had the thing going so hot that whne I filled up to go to bed, i put the air all the way down. And it still was going crazy! Lots of secondary burn, lots of flames on the logs, and a nice hot coal bed this morning!

 

[swestall]

AND the Soapstone Goes ON, and the Soapstone goes on.....
Fires keep breathing warmth into our homes
Wood consumed is less than others know
Flames a burnin' blue above and all
Happiness comes with burnin' wood at home
AND the Soapstone goes on, and the Soapstone goes on, and on, and on.................

 

[Dottie]

These are good suggestions, and I thank you. About that maul...do you think I could handle one? I did mention at a previous post that to go with the inexperience that I was 63 years old. I have fairly good upper body strength, but I'm sure it doesn't compare with most men's and I can't brag about my eyesight without glasses and I don't know if one can wear protective goggles over them, but I'm supposing that you must be able to. Mostly, I'm kind of afraid of swinging and missing, is it really difficult? Do you think I could I accomplish the same thing (but slower) with a heavy hammer and a wedge of some kind? I usually try and find a work-around of some kind if it comes to things requiring more strength or help (0) than I have.

I'm an early riser, but getting up 1 1/2-2 hours earlier than I have to somehow doesn't appeal to me, on the upside I do have insomnia, so maybe that will be a asset after all!

Is the reason that you don't use the larger, unsplit round pieces is that you can't fill the firebox as full? I thought that they would burn longer, am I mistaken in this? Oh, when you say charcoaled do you mean blackened or that red glowing sort of see-through look that the logs get when they are really hot?

Thanks again.

 

[swestall]

If they are too big, they won't season well. They fit OK, but take more space than splits.
You might be able to handle a small maul, just to split small ones. Read this thread....
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/13824/

If you can't split then when you stack what you buy, try to mix large/med/small so you are bringing in some of each, each time you bring wood in....

By going with the answers to your questions, you will develop your own way of managing the woodstove. YOU ARE GOING TO LOVE THIS, I can just tell...

I recently ordered a couple of sets of boot warmer blocks (soapstone) from Woodstock Stoves. I use them as a trivet on top of the stove and put a kettle with some nice spice, etc.: it makes the heat smell good too.....

 

[mikeathens]

I learned a bit more about my stove this weekend, as well. I found that when it's down to 0 outside, I am lucky to keep the house at 60. And that with a reload every 3 - 4 hours = 0 sleep.

I found that I can let the temperature on chimney hover at 800 with my probe thermometer, and the stovetop will level out at 550. Once my stovetop falls under 400, i am freezing, and have to reload.

I get the chimney up to 800, close my manual chimney damper to a 45 degree angle, let the fire rage a bit longer, and shut primary air control to about 1/4" open.

rinse, and repeat as necessary.

I am wondering if the mansfield wouldn't have been a better choice??? Oh, well, my wife won't let me drop another couple thousand on the mansfield.

 

[Dottie]

It wasn't 0 outside this weekend, but in the teens. I got the living room up to 82 and the upstairs bedroom and bath were plenty warm, but I was at home to feed it more often that if I were at work.

And swesall, you are absolutely correct I am going to love it. I imagine I will feel better and better about my purchase as the oil prices keep climbing and when I can get a reliable supply of wood. I'm kicked around the idea of getting a chainsaw, but have been discouraged about that and I think the reasoning is sound. It sounds like a job for people with lots of experience and very fast reflexes. However, even if I have to purchase all the wood it's lot less expensive and lots prettier than oil heat.

Dottie

 

[mikeathens]

It wasn't 0 outside this weekend, but in the teens. I got the living room up to 82 and the upstairs bedroom and bath were plenty warm, but I was at home to feed it more often that if I were at work.

WOW!! Sounds like you got it! If it was 82, you're in good shape with teens outside.

You might notice that you can stoke it up before you go to work, and come home to a house in the high 60's or low 70's, with enough of a coal bed to get it going again with some good kindling.

If it will be in the 30's during the day, I can have my house right around 60 when I get home (11 hours later). I'm looking forward to having my second child any day now...I get to be home for 6 weeks and load the stove whenever I want!