Needing help... Chimney Inspection & Wood Insert Questions

[rwhite]

Never heard of a slammer until now... did a quick search and read some... if I were to find a liner sized correctly would that make it any safer?

Something like this would be a whole lot better if it was in good shape:
(broken link removed to http://swva.craigslist.org/app/5878428103.html)

(broken link removed to http://asheville.craigslist.org/app/5908494687.html)

Not sure what your looking to spend but I wouldn't waste my money on the other one.

 

[edthesweep]

Something like this would be a whole lot better if it was in good shape:
(broken link removed to http://swva.craigslist.org/app/5878428103.html)

(broken link removed to http://asheville.craigslist.org/app/5908494687.html)

Not sure what your looking to spend but I wouldn't waste my money on the other one.

I . Don't waste time, even if it's free, on anything more then 10 12 old. You want something made after epa's new regulations went into effect (2006?)

 

[begreen]

Phase 1 - 1988
Phase 2 - 1990
(broken link removed)

 

[edthesweep]

Phase 1 - 1988
Phase 2 - 1990
(broken link removed)

They haven't changed since 1990? I could swear read on here don't bother with any stove more then ten years old (prob read this 2 maybe 3 yrs ago though)

 

[begreen]

New regs have been now put in place this year for phase 3. They removed old 35:1 stoves and new stove emissions are limited to 4.5 grams/hr for all wood and pellet stoves.. Mfgs. have until 2020 to implement after which they can only sell phase 4 stoves which limit emissions to 2.0 grams/hr.. That is if the new administration doesn't change regs.

There are plenty of good phase 2 stoves made in the 1990s that are still compliant.

 

[edthesweep]

Phase 1 - 1988
Phase 2 - 1990
(broken link removed)

Great article, thanks! I forgot all aboutthat website! Haven't been there in almost two years!

 

[edthesweep]

New regs have been now put in place this year for phase 3. They removed old 35:1 stoves and new stove emissions are limited to 4.5 grams/hr for all wood and pellet stoves.. Mfgs. have until 2020 to implement after which they can only sell phase 4 stoves which limit emissions to 2.0 grams/hr.. That is if the new administration doesn't change regs.

There are plenty of good phase 2 stoves made in the 1990s that are still compliant.

Well there's your answer, OP
Thanks again begreen

 

[begreen]

Great article, thanks! I forgot all aboutthat website! Haven't been there in almost two years!

Tom has a wealth of good information posted. It's also the home of our stove.

 

[rwhite]

In addition to eating through wood, you'd have to have an 8" liner most likely which is not compatible with most newer stoves. The extra cost of liner over 6" and the added wood would more than likely cover the cost of a good used insert. If there's no tag or label there's a good chance your insurance company wouldn't accept it. The list goes on.

 

[jatoxico]

if I were to find a liner sized correctly would that make it any safer?

Yes but mostly those old stoves would require an 8" liner and will need some kind of boot to mate the round liner to the square flue outlet. So couple things; an 8" liner will be that much tougher to get down the chimney and could require removal of existing tile flue. Realize most modern stoves use 6" so if you ever want to upgrade you'd be replacing the liner again which is a big part of the expense and effort of install.

You mentioned possibly moving the lintel and removing firebox brick. Inserts are meant to go into existing fireboxes. The safety of removing brick would depend on the surface below it but I would say unless it's a slab that's a no go. Even then I think you would want to have a pro evaluate that. Moving the lintel can be done but only further adds to the expense.

After all that that you'll still have an old inefficient, not very attractive (IMO), wood chewing stove. Would make more sense to buy one of the value brands like Englander or Drolet. You'll have an efficient quality stove with customer support and parts availability if ever needed.

 

[SpartyOn0409]

Thanks again all.... I will definitely stay away from that insert then; the opening coming out of it was approx 4.5" x 9.5" and there was no info to be found anywhere on the stove that I could find.

RWHITE... Thanks for the links. The issue is with the wife not wanting a freestanding wood stove and not having a raised hearth I am looking for an insert that is as flush as possible which REALLY limits my options.

I guess I will keep searching. In he meantime... Can anybody answer the following:

1) Can I keep some of the drywall or does all of it have to be removed or is that more dependant on the insert?

2) Is it common to not have an ash dump or is that even something I should be concerned about? Obviously with an insert it wouldn't be used but why would there not be one?

 

[yooper08]

1) It's dependent on the insert and how it'll fit into the opening you already have. Google zero clearance fireplace and look at some install/owner manuals, which will define clearances. I think woodlanddirect.com has several zero clearance fireplaces. I looked at just one and the clearance to combustible trim is 3" from the door.

2) Not common on an insert. If I had a stove instead of an insert, I don't think I'd opt for the ash pan...to me its easier to just scoop them out into an ash pail.

 

[rwhite]

Depending on the rvalue required it's pretty easy to frame up a free floating hearth and cover with 3 sheets of durock. Then you can just tile the whole thing. Drywall is considered combustible so you would need to remove to the extent of the clearances.

 

[Van]

I have been offline for awhile. A Blessed Christmas to you all!

Looks like you have something similar in your old firebox to what I did.

Here is my project FWIW to you...

My Pacific Energy insert stove was $2500 delivered.
The insulated 6" dia. liner and attachments cost another $525.
And another $175 +/- in odds and ends for a total of $3200.

I used both a sawzall and angle grinder to cut a hole in the firebox at the damper (3/16" steel)
for the chimney liner to pass through:

You can see the clay flue chimney with 11" x 11" inside dimension
The stainless chimney liner was a breeze to install and cap off at the top.

The whole project was well worth the effort with the money saved but perhaps most of all the
satisfaction of having done it DIY.

One other thing I did was to make a sheet metal "blockoff plate" (this forum has a lot of info on that)
and insulated above the plate as well as the walls of the existing firebox around the insert.
I created a thermal wall to direct all the heat into my living space.
Otherwise I would be losing a lot of heat to the chimney cavity behind the firebox,
which was the original design goal of the old Heatilator.
I used fireproof Roxul mineral wool sheathing insulation 2' x 4' x 1" from $9.50.sheet).
The cheapest I found here:
https://www.zoro.com/roxul-insulation-wool-foil-backing-40260/i/G9076024/?q=G9076024

So again Here is the BEFORE:

And AFTER w/ new paint job:
(note the foil faced sheathing wrapping inside on the walls of the firebox)

This heats my whole house with very little wood.
Will not have to use the HVAC system at all this Winter to heat my house.
In a couple of years the stove will have paid for itself.

Take a couple of days off work and install your new stove and save all that money.

 

[SpartyOn0409]

Thanks for the info folks... I've come across these inserts but am wondering if anybody has ever used them or had any experience with them. 1/3-1/4 of the cost of some of the others I was considering... Thoughts?

HiFlame / HorseFlame - HF577IU7
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01M8O39U6/?tag=hearthamazon-20


HiFlame / HorseFlame - HF577IU3
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MQGO99V/?tag=hearthamazon-20

 

[begreen]

Cheap Chinese units. As far as I can tell not EPA tested (maybe not UL tested either?). No blower. Lord knows how well it heats or doesn't. I suspect poorly.

Edit: On their website they claim: EPA Approved for Washington State and Tested to UL 1482-2010

However, I checked the Dec 2016 EPA listing and Horse Flame only has one model listed, that is the little 517HF freestanding stove. Other errors in the listing- says it's a cast iron insert. It's not. It's a steel box with a cast iron door. Says it can have top or rear vent. Also incorrect. Same info on their website. Tried to download the manual but links for the manuals are all broken.

 

[Van]

Sparty,
Begreen really knows his stuff.
He helped me immensely on my stove installment as I am truly a newbie.

I would say that you get what you pay for.
I am glad that I did not go to an older stove or the latest special from Home Depot as I was considering.

I know everyone on this forum love their stoves and I have to say that my Pacific Energy "Super" Insert is simply amazing.
It is truly 80% efficient, meaning that I lose only 20% of my wood heat energy.
These non-catalytic stoves burn so hot and clean that they do not produce smoke.
My neighbors ask me if I am using my new stove because they do not see smoke.

When you get the stove up to operating temperature and dial down the air supply, the baffle at the top of the firebox ignites the smoke coming off the burning logs.
In fact the temperature increases surprisingly.
These stoves may be the only positive thing that EPA regulations have accomplished in recent history.

Find the money, you will not be sorry.