Need to lower my electric bill!

[Highbeam]

Well, I Ebayed one yesterday so I'll be having another new gadget to play with. Should be interesting. Think I'll get a Kill-O-Watt type thing too, but I'd like to find one with a 20-amp receptacle to monitor just my new UPS with. Looks like there isn't such a thing - all I've seen are 15 amp? Guess I could just wire myself up a pigtail adaptor to use with it.

That 15 amp limitation is a pain in the butt. I have exceeded that several times and it starts beeping at you and doesn't seem happy. It's a cheap device though and I've found plenty of use for it to justify the cost.

Right now my kill-a-watt is tracking my truck's block heater consumption. I'm trying to verify that the improvement in fuel consumption justifies the electric cost of running the block heater.

 

[Ashful]

I'm trying to verify that the improvement in fuel consumption justifies the electric cost of running the block heater.

Highbeam, you are a true geek.

 

[semipro]

That 15 amp limitation is a pain in the butt. I have exceeded that several times and it starts beeping at you and doesn't seem happy. It's a cheap device though and I've found plenty of use for it to justify the cost.

Right now my kill-a-watt is tracking my truck's block heater consumption. I'm trying to verify that the improvement in fuel consumption justifies the electric cost of running the block heater.

Aren't there other benefits to block heating though, quicker passenger heat, less engine wear, cold weather starting?
I'm sure those are hard to quantify so you're probably just looking at what you can measure.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

If Its a diesel ,block heating is a necessity.

 

[Highbeam]

If Its a diesel ,block heating is a necessity.

No. The powerstroke diesel I have is designed by IH to start reliably in -20 F with no block heater and never has a problem well into the single digits that I've tested. It does start much nicer with less smoke and harshness when plugged in. Block heaters only give 30-40 degrees rise over ambient, this is what I measure and what the cummins guys have found as well. It doesn't make a warm truck and the cab heat is still a long ways away but you folks are right that many things are better with a plugged in truck. I want to know that it is also cheaper and so far it is.

The block heater is 1000 watts and does all the warming that it can do in 3 hours so I am showing that the fuel savings exceed 30 cents per day. 30 cents is less than 0.1 gallons of fuel so it's not hard. Some of the hypermiler guys plug in their cars/trucks 9 months of the year. I believe the prius even has a little thermos bottle to hold in engine heat. Warm engines are much more efficient.

I am a geek but these little hobbies are much cheaper than cocaine.

 

[1750]

these little hobbies are much cheaper than cocaine.

Nice. I'll use it as my go-to refrain whenever possible.

 

[Ashful]

The block heater is 1000 watts and does all the warming that it can do in 3 hours so I am showing that the fuel savings exceed 30 cents per day.

Interesting. My little 1.3L Yanmar diesel has 400W block heater, and I know that just 20 minutes on wall current has it heated up to start like a warm day, even in very cold conditions. Much smaller engine, but also a much smaller heater.

I have a heavy-duty (15A 3-prong) mechanical light and appliance timer, and I plug it into that on cold nights, when I plan to use it the following morning. No sense in running the block heater all night, I set it to come on 20 or 30 minutes before my planned usage time. Down the road, I think I'll run it off an X-10 or appliance module, so it can be switched remotely from the house, as it sits in the barn 150 feet from the house.

I am a geek but these little hobbies are much cheaper than cocaine.

 

[jebatty]

I run a dehumifier in the greenhouse. Lousy conditions in our damp climate. But I hardly see a blip in the bill from it. Maybe $5/month?

With some rough figuring, I think $5/month would only buy us about 40 hours/month of dehumidification here. I noticed a jump when I had ours running after putting in our years wood a couple falls ago - bad timing meant it had to go in damp, so I had to set up the dehumdifier for a month or two. Like, an extra $30-40/month or so.

Summer dehumidifier in the basement is an energy hog from an Energy Star rated dehumidifier. Typical kwh/mo for us for the dehumidifer is about 500 x $0.11/kwh = $55.00/mo for July and August, our main months of use, some also in late June and maybe early September. It's a small price to pay for the benefit, so not using it would be "stupid," but I wish I could find a way to reduce or eliminate the need for dehumidification.

 

[Where2]

It's raining outside, so my PV system isn't collecting much today. Installed one of my TED 1001 units about an hour ago, knowing I needed to dry some towels and run some other loads of laundry today. After just over an hour of use, I find the TED 1001 quite depressing to watch. The depressing part is not TED's fault, the device works excellent. What is depressing is how thirsty the dryer is while drying a load of towels. The consumption only got worse when the water heater timer kicked in using my 1500W lower element. However, for $21 (including shipping), the TED 1001 is quite effective at providing nearly real time consumption data, even if that data is not in my favor.

 

[PapaDave]

I dread running the elec. dryer or putting something in the oven.
I half-azzed reading the meter before and after a load in the dryer, and if I remember correctly, an average load for us used about 3 Kwh.
Our normal daily use can be as low as 8, and a high of maybe 12 or so.
Quite a large chunk of our use is the dryer.

 

[Highbeam]

The dryer load is only depressing if you don't already have a water heater or hot tub also sucking down the watts. The dryer cycles the elements on and off so at least it isn't a steady drain. I sure don't like looking up and seeing the water heater cycle just to maintain tank temps, that is pure waste.

The dishwasher was the shocker to me. That puppy pulls some watts down.

Sure we could hand wash dishes and hang clothes to dry and use nothing. We could also buy propane burning water heaters and dryers but that would just hide the problem.

 

[Bret Chase]

The dryer load is only depressing if you don't already have a water heater or hot tub also sucking down the watts. The dryer cycles the elements on and off so at least it isn't a steady drain. I sure don't like looking up and seeing the water heater cycle just to maintain tank temps, that is pure waste.

The dishwasher was the shocker to me. That puppy pulls some watts down.

Sure we could hand wash dishes and hang clothes to dry and use nothing. We could also buy propane burning water heaters and dryers but that would just hide the problem.

my dishwasher draws less than my wife's hairdryer...

 

[Highbeam]

my dishwasher draws less than my wife's hairdryer...

It was something surprising like 750 watts though when washing. No heater. This is the motor which is really only a pump. Hairdryer at 1500 watts is of course higher. We should all have bald wives.

 

[Where2]

We could also buy propane burning water heaters and dryers but that would just hide the problem.

In my case, that would be counter-productive. The local gas company finally brought NG to my parents house (4 houses down the street) after 50+ years of having a propane account. (still can't get NG at my house). The "base charge" per month for a NG account is close to $20. I can dry quite a few loads of laundry for $20/mo. It would be less expensive over the long haul to spend my $$$ and add more solar generating capacity. The electric utility "base charge" is $7.25, and I'm already a paying customer with them.

 

[1750]

I sure don't like looking up and seeing the water heater cycle just to maintain tank temps, that is pure waste.

I've been impressed with the Rinnai on-demand system.

There's a detailed calculator available on their page to see if conversion makes sense. Good news, the woman showering on the homepage delivers every unit personally: http://www.rinnai.us/tankless-water-heater

 

[Highbeam]

In my case, that would be counter-productive. The local gas company finally brought NG to my parents house (4 houses down the street) after 50+ years of having a propane account. (still can't get NG at my house). The "base charge" per month for a NG account is close to $20. I can dry quite a few loads of laundry for $20/mo. It would be less expensive over the long haul to spend my $$$ and add more solar generating capacity. The electric utility "base charge" is $7.25, and I'm already a paying customer with them.

Fortunately we have fuel cost calculators like the one on this site. Turns out that propane, even high efficiency, is more expensive per btu than resistance electric heat in my location. There are a handful of drawbacks to gas fired stuff in the home as well but a helpful benefit of gas is that the wall kettle is much smaller than a big tank.

With NG, who knows but for good or bad, it is not available to me.

 

[Highbeam]

I've been impressed with the Rinnai on-demand system.

There's a detailed calculator available on their page to see if conversion makes sense. Good news, the woman showering on the homepage delivers every unit personally: http://www.rinnai.us/tankless-water-heater

That woman could be a man given what they show us.....

Ouch! 82% efficient?

 

[Bret Chase]

If Its a diesel ,block heating is a necessity.

The Perkins made CAT branded 3054T in my '00 Caterpillar TH63, has never had a block heater and doesn't have glow plugs. It does have an intake air heater though... if that thing won't start... it's too cold to be sitting in its open cab...

 

[Bret Chase]

I dread running the elec. dryer or putting something in the oven.
I half-azzed reading the meter before and after a load in the dryer, and if I remember correctly, an average load for us used about 3 Kwh.
Our normal daily use can be as low as 8, and a high of maybe 12 or so.
Quite a large chunk of our use is the dryer.

I've got a gas range, so I don't worry about that.... and paying to run the dryer is better than pulling frozen clothes off the line and trying to wear them...

I'd love to have another gas dryer... it was cheap as hell to run.... and the moist heat seemed to be easier on my clothes.

 

[jebatty]

I sure don't like looking up and seeing the water heater cycle just to maintain tank temps, that is pure waste.

You can probably end that by super-insulating the tank and adding effective heat traps to the hot and cold lines. Cost for those enhancements would be less than $50.00 if you did the work yourself.

 

[1750]

That woman could be a man given what they show us.....

Ouch! 82% efficient?

"Ouch", meaning "82%... that's crazy bad!" or "OUCH! 82%... that's crazy good!"?

(I'm assuming the former.)

And, she's a she. I checked when she delivered my unit.

 

[Highbeam]

"Ouch", meaning "82%... that's crazy bad!" or "OUCH! 82%... that's crazy good!"?

(I'm assuming the former.)

And, she's a she. I checked when she delivered my unit.

I expected much better than 82%. There's a fantastic UPS girl photo as well. Aren't some of these water heaters well into the 90s efficient? At least as advertised?

 

[1750]

Some of the energy factors listed with the Rinnai tankless units are in the 90s. This one is 95%: (broken link removed to http://www.rinnai.us/water-heater/product/ru98e-reu-kb3237wd-us)

I don't honestly know if "energy efficiency" and "energy factor" are comparable measurements.

Martin Holladay of GBA has a pretty exhaustive introduction to hot water heating here: http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/musings/all-about-water-heaters

I can tell from what you have written that you probably know absolutely all of the content he includes. However, below, is a vignette he includes that described a product I had never heard of before. While I would have some hesitation stepping into a shower with an electrical cord coming out of the shower head, this is probably about as good as it gets. I'd LOVE to stick one in my daughters' shower -- short of the potential for electrocution, it seems win-win.

"A few years ago I visited a small town on the Caribbean island of Dominica, and stayed in a simple guest house. The house had no water heater. However, the showerhead was fat, and it had a cord dangling from the end that was plugged into the nearest outlet. An electric resistance element in the showerhead (controlled by a flow sensor) raised the temperature of the water flowing through the showerhead. Since the electrical draw of the resistance element was fixed, the user controlled the temperature by adjusting the water flow. If the flow was adjusted to a trickle, the water was very hot; if the water flow was fast, the shower was lukewarm at best.

Of course, this device looked a little frightening, but it worked. It had several virtues:

• It only worked with low flows, so you had to save both water and electricity if you wanted a hot shower.
• Obviously, there was no hot water wasted, because no hot water ever sat in a pipe."

 

[Bret Chase]

"A few years ago I visited a small town on the Caribbean island of Dominica, and stayed in a simple guest house. The house had no water heater. However, the showerhead was fat, and it had a cord dangling from the end that was plugged into the nearest outlet. An electric resistance element in the showerhead (controlled by a flow sensor) raised the temperature of the water flowing through the showerhead. Since the electrical draw of the resistance element was fixed, the user controlled the temperature by adjusting the water flow. If the flow was adjusted to a trickle, the water was very hot; if the water flow was fast, the shower was lukewarm at best.

Of course, this device looked a little frightening, but it worked. It had several virtues:

• It only worked with low flows, so you had to save both water and electricity if you wanted a hot shower.
• Obviously, there was no hot water wasted, because no hot water ever sat in a pipe."

Basically what you are describing is a booster... they're used quite commonly in commercial kitchens to rise the DHW supply from 120F to code required 180F for the dishwasher. they use an astounding amount of power. The last one I had to take care of had FIFTEEN 5500W elements!

 

[1750]

But they couldn't use more than a tankless system that does the same job for water that then has to travel the house plumbing to find the shower, right? No heat loss to the plumbing, and no hot water left in the pipes when you are done.

Also, I liked the behavior modification that seemed built into it -- if you want a hot shower, it's low flow. So, my princesses who now are standing under the shower essentially taking a vertical tub bath, would have to keep it moving!