Need help, my head hurts...

[john317]

Hi folks,

My Brother-in-law directed me here and it looks like a nice, honest, humble bunch of folks. I'm pretty much burned out from researching this and was hoping to get some advice and a reality check. Wondering which details to sweat. Here's my situation. Buying an 1800sq ft Cape, built in 1845, located in Lincoln Maine(45 minutes north of Bangor). The house has been remodeled and fairly well insulated. I will be blowing in 12"+ of insulation in the attic area once we close. Floor plan looks like this(ish):

(broken image removed)

The round thing is the proposed placing of the stove unit. It is a cape so the upstairs is three bedrooms and a full bath. There are ceiling fans in most rooms to help move air as well as a FHA system with an air return upstairs(hadn't seen that before). I'm looking for "pits of hell" heat. I live with cold blooded women. Lord willing I'll die in this house so opening thing up in the future may be a possibility but not in the near future.

That being said, what are the recommendations? Did some searching and didn't find the right info(maybe didn't look in the right places) I'm looking to use this as primary heat. Output, and functionality are on the top of the list. I'll pay what I have to but like most I like a good deal. My wife is not real picky about looks, in fact likes the basic black the best. Stoves that have piqued my interest include: Napolean 1400PL, PE Spectrum Classic/Super 27, QuadFire Cumberland Gap, Lopi Liberty. Am I looking at the right stuff or should I look at a different class/size of stove. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[firefighterjake]

Keeping a stove as central as possible often helps in moving heat . . . as does getting the right sized stove. I would definitely go a bit larger than what you think you need since it seems as though the brochures which lists out BTUs and burn times may be "ideal situation" numbers.

Where you've proposed placing the stove -- what room is this used for? I would recommend placing a stove in the room where you will spend most of your time when not sleeping . . . which typically is a family room or living room . . . even if it may not be central to the home . . . this is where you will want the most heat.

The good news . . . with many stoves today you should be able to have good looks, functionality and wicked good heat . . . you've listed out some great brands, but I am not sure how many BTUs or square footage those stoves are rated for without looking them up individually.

P.S. Are you sure you'll be able to find any wood in Lincoln . . . . . . actually all kidding aside (knowing that Lincoln is/was a mill town and therefore wood shouldn't be an issue . . . do you or have you started getting wood for this stove . . . get the wood sooner rather than later.

 

[john317]

Keeping a stove as central as possible often helps in moving heat . . . as does getting the right sized stove. I would definitely go a bit larger than what you think you need since it seems as though the brochures which lists out BTUs and burn times may be "ideal situation" numbers.

Where you've proposed placing the stove -- what room is this used for? I would recommend placing a stove in the room where you will spend most of your time when not sleeping . . . which typically is a family room or living room . . . even if it may not be central to the home . . . this is where you will want the most heat.

The good news . . . with many stoves today you should be able to have good looks, functionality and wicked good heat . . . you've listed out some great brands, but I am not sure how many BTUs or square footage those stoves are rated for without looking them up individually.

P.S. Are you sure you'll be able to find any wood in Lincoln . . . . . . actually all kidding aside (knowing that Lincoln is/was a mill town and therefore wood shouldn't be an issue . . . do you or have you started getting wood for this stove . . . get the wood sooner rather than later.

The proposed stove location is where we'll hang out the most. Or at least me anyways, it's right next to the kitchen With 4 little kids we range all over but this room will be the main hang out spot. I've got 5 acres mostly wooded and my father owns 36 acres that comes with an open invitation to harvest. While out on his wheeler he said there's 5+ cord of downed stuff from last winter. I plan to get at it soon after we move in. Found a BTU/sqft chart based on climate zone(can't find it again DOH!!) and out climate met with 1800sqft at a little below 55,000 BTU so that's the range I've been looking in. Accrually looking for higher "max BTUs so that it will avg closer to 55k.

Don't worry about Lincoln, as long as we don't get a population explosion up here(i.e. when Hell Freezes over) there'll be plenty of wood for all.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[Bubbavh]

Keeping a stove as central as possible often helps in moving heat . . . as does getting the right sized stove. I would definitely go a bit larger than what you think you need since it seems as though the brochures which lists out BTUs and burn times may be "ideal situation" numbers.

Where you've proposed placing the stove -- what room is this used for? I would recommend placing a stove in the room where you will spend most of your time when not sleeping . . . which typically is a family room or living room . . . even if it may not be central to the home . . . this is where you will want the most heat.

The good news . . . with many stoves today you should be able to have good looks, functionality and wicked good heat . . . you've listed out some great brands, but I am not sure how many BTUs or square footage those stoves are rated for without looking them up individually.

P.S. Are you sure you'll be able to find any wood in Lincoln . . . . . . actually all kidding aside (knowing that Lincoln is/was a mill town and therefore wood shouldn't be an issue . . . do you or have you started getting wood for this stove . . . get the wood sooner rather than later.

The proposed stove location is where we'll hang out the most. Or at least me anyways, it's right next to the kitchen With 4 little kids we range all over but this room will be the main hang out spot. I've got 5 acres mostly wooded and my father owns 36 acres that comes with an open invitation to harvest. While out on his wheeler he said there's 5+ cord of downed stuff from last winter. I plan to get at it soon after we move in. Found a BTU/sqft chart based on climate zone(can't find it again DOH!!) and out climate met with 1800sqft at a little below 55,000 BTU so that's the range I've been looking in. Accrually looking for higher "max BTUs so that it will avg closer to 55k.

Don't worry about Lincoln, as long as we don't get a population explosion up here(i.e. when Hell Freezes over) there'll be plenty of wood for all.

Thanks for the advice.

You should be looking at 70k btu stoves. The rating #'s on the stove are way below what you will get. Get the biggest stove you can with the biggest fire box (3+ cubic ft min. 18" split length). You'll be glad you did.
You can build a small fire in a big stove, but you can't build a big fire in a small stove!

 

[begreen]

Hey John, good for you sticking with a centrally located stove and flue. You'll be glad you did. I agree with Bub that in your climate I'd bump up to the ~3 cu ft versions of these stoves. You'll get a longer burn time and better below heating when you have to open the big stove up and let it cook. What size is the room that the stove will be located in? Would you consider a catalytic stove? If so, a thermostatically regulated one like the Blaze King Princess is also worth looking at.

From what I can see the main issue is going to be circulating the heat. Closed floor plans are more challenging in this regard. It looks like it may take some small fans to eliminate cold pockets. The room on the opposite side of the staircase from the stove looks like it could be a cool one without help. The furnace fan often is not a good solution because of heat loss in the ductwork and electrical expense. Often a properly placed small fan blowing air from to cold room towards the hot room works better. Counterintuitive, but it works. We have several success stories reported here. That's how I heat my office. Another option is opening up the staircase walls at the door ways. It would make a big difference if the openings were say 6-8ft wide. If that's the choice, pay attention to supporting header needs.

And the universal mantra of course is - get your wood now. It should be split, stacked and drying. The new generation stove will put out the heat and operate so much better with dry wood.

 

[johnn]

Hi John,,Your Brother-in law did you a favor I think! Many people here better suited to answer your stove questions than I, but my thoughts are: Bigger is better. I feel a lot of heat will migrate upstairs, and if its on its own thermo, you wont have it running very often. I have no objections to a Catalytic stove, but I feel they require a little more tending in proper firing techniques and operation, and your significant other would need to be up to meeting those needs in your abscense. I have a keen interest in the thermostatically (auto) draft BeBreen mentioned. I`ve read some older threads, discussing this option,and you get pro and con feedback. I hope to revisit the topic some day. Enlarging the doors are good advice, but I feel that one of them may be home to your wifes cabinetts, or appliances. If the large room (other side of staircase) will not be used as a bedroom, and if fire codes would allow, could you use the space under the staircast to duct in an air-exchage between the rooms?

 

[firefighterjake]

John . . . sounds like you've got the stove located in the perfect place to both heat the house and keep you guys warm if that's the room where you'll mainly be hanging out.

As I said before . . . it seems as though very few folks complain about getting too big a stove vs. folks complaining that the stove was not big enough to keep them warm.

As BeGreen said, with closed lay-outs the the key will be fans . . . although you may find that even without a fan you can heat the place pretty well. In my Cape I have the stove in a corner of the living room . . . temps there range from mid-70s to low-80s. In the rooms adjoining the living room I have 70-74 temps and upstairs the temps are the same . . . the only truly cool rooms of the house are my Mudroom located in an ell off the kitchen the furthest away from the stove and the master bedroom . . . but honestly I like it cool in the bedroom and it has never been remotely approaching "freezing" temps . . . just comfortably cool . . . and that's without any fan action in the bedroom.

I think you may do well in heating your house.

As for a stove . . . I am partial to Jotul . . . but that's because I have a Jotul and zero experience with any modern day stoves. As BG mentioned, a lot of folks like the Blaze King line with cats -- seems as though they're relatively easy to use and get fantastically long burn times . . . a bit funky looking . . . but as you said, you want function not looks. Do not fear the catalytic converters . . . honestly I stayed away from them originally thinking they would be expensive to replace, too finicky to use, etc. . . . but after having hung out here for a bit it seems as though they may have a bad . . . and undeserved . . . reputation.

 

[john317]

Wow, thanks for the great info guys, it's a huge help. That layout is not to scale and looks more closed in than it really is(My wife pointed that out). I sketched that out from memory on my lunchbreak at work.

BeGreen, I took your advice and am looking the ~3CuFt size. After reading reviews and whatnot I'm looking at these: PE Summit, QuadraFire 5700, Lopi liberty, Napolean 1900, Regency Large3100. Am I overlooking somthing I should consider? The Summit seems to have the best rep but I realize reviews are very subjective and there are a lot of variables. Almost like asking someone what my favorite color should be As far as wood I happen to live in an area where people make a living selling seasoned firewood. It's a little more expensive but will give a head start so I can get next years stuff drying on time.

Again, thanks to all you folks. I'll be here again to ask questions and I hope to pass your kindness onto others after I have some experience under my belt.

 

[webby3650]

You could also check out the Jotul 500 or the Jotul 600. Also keep in mind, just because someone says it's seasoned doesn't mean it is! These new stoves are very picky, people with old stoves or no stove at all often don't know the difference.

 

[ControlFreak]

John,
Looking at your floor plan, I think it would be a good idea for you to open up the wall at the back corner of your staircase. This will enable you to place one or more fans that will create a circular airflow pattern to bring heat to the back rooms. Without this airflow, those back rooms will not see much heat and it will be difficult for you to disperse the heat from the stove. Having the stove located close to the stairwell will give you good heat up to the second floor. I would orient the fans so that it moves the air toward your stairwell.

I question the need for the larger stove for an 1800 sq ft house. I have a Napoleon 1401 insert that does a very nice job of providing most of the heat for a 2900 sq ft colonial here in MA. Last winter I went through about 250 gallons of oil and 4 cords. The oil is also providing hot water for a family of 4. The heat for the second story is exclusively natural convection from the stove. (The heating zone for the second floor has been broken for a number of years.)

Is the John317 a biblical reference?

Dan

 

[begreen]

We have a 3 cu ft stove in a milder climate in an old house with too much glass. We've never felt like it was too much stove. During the swing seasons, we use a partial fire to get the stove up to about 5-600 and then let it idle until out. Though in comparison, our floorplan is quite open. The two qualifiers for a big stove here are: Bangor, Maine and "I’m looking for “pits of hell” heat. I live with cold blooded women."

John as noted previously, I'd also look at the Blaze King Princess for long steady heat that is thermostatically regulated. While at the Quad dealer, I'd look at the Isle Royale too.

 

[karri0n]

I noticed you have people selling seasoned firewood. "Seasoned is a very relative term, and "seasoned to a wood seller means "needs 1 more year" to an EPA stove. You truly won't be able to buy wood already seasoned, so if buying it, you want to buy it at least 6 months before you will be burning(longer if it's oak) and get it stacked ASAP. Almost every first year burner(myself included) has done this, and it really is hell trying to heat with unseasoned wood.

 

[savageactor7]

John I'm not one of the great thinkers here...

...but I think you picked a great spot for the stove. Even better if it's the TV room or a common area the family hangs in most of the time.

 

[john317]

Is the John317 a biblical reference?

Dan

Yes, it is.

 

[Wet1]

My first choice would be a Blaze King "Princess" or even a "King". You'll use less wood and get significantly longer burn times, plus they have that great thermostatic feature.

 

[Wood Duck]

If I were you, in the next few weeks I'd spend some time at your Dad's woodlot cutting up and splitting all that downed wood. the quickest way to get it seasoning would be to cut and stack there, then plan to move it later when you get time. At this point, only about 6 months before you want to start burning, I'd focus on wood that will season faster, like soft maple, pine, etc. Oak is unlikely to be properly seasoned by next winter if cut and split now, so leave that for later. I think it would be better to have well seasoned softer woods than poorly seasoned oak. Can't say that I have actually tried both and compared, however.

 

[beanbone]

John -

I agree with all others... Looks like a solid location. One consideration - It's a little expensive, but look at soapstone. It's a softer heat and won't blow you out of the room you're in.