need help finding information on this wood stove
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jabush said:
thats what i was trying to do but when i blew it up it pixilates so i cant make it out , kinda looks like "woodland" or somthing like that
milease said:
Check with your insurance company to find out if they will approve a stove with no UL plate, most will not no matter who made it.
I remember the brand...slightly. Yes, just another Fisher clone. I suspect you'll be unable to find any real info on them.....so you have to hope the insurance company or code official will allow you to use NFPA generic standards. These are standards for unlisted stoves which you can find by digging around on this site or at the NFPA site (NFPA 211) by using their online document reader.
One of their first circa 1977; http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...AIBAJ&pg=6211,4821737&dq=woodland+stove&hl=en
http://www.woodlandstoves.com/
Your question is worded like the insurance company is interested in smoke output. They are concerned with using tested stoves, and installation. IF they allow untested stoves to use the generic NFPA standard for untested stoves, it looks like your pipe is reduced at the top of picture. NFPA standard does not allow reduction in pipe size. Pipe and chimney flue must be same size as stove outlet all the way up.
What makes you think this smokes less than a comparable Fisher Grandpa?
They used the same "Smoke Shelf Baffle" pioneered by Fisher in Oregon testing; (imagine that)
http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...AAIBAJ&pg=4603,792859&dq=woodland+stove&hl=en
F-15 and F-20 Glass Door;
http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...AIBAJ&pg=4091,5682654&dq=woodland+stove&hl=en
Does this have a factory baffle or homemade? Can you see directly out the exhaust when you open the doors? The Fisher vent collar protrudes 3" into the firebox. If you could measure yours, we will know if they are the same as mentioned in the Glass Door ad above that mentions "extended flue".
Thanks !
http://www.woodlandstoves.com/
Your question is worded like the insurance company is interested in smoke output. They are concerned with using tested stoves, and installation. IF they allow untested stoves to use the generic NFPA standard for untested stoves, it looks like your pipe is reduced at the top of picture. NFPA standard does not allow reduction in pipe size. Pipe and chimney flue must be same size as stove outlet all the way up.
What makes you think this smokes less than a comparable Fisher Grandpa?
They used the same "Smoke Shelf Baffle" pioneered by Fisher in Oregon testing; (imagine that)
http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...AAIBAJ&pg=4603,792859&dq=woodland+stove&hl=en
F-15 and F-20 Glass Door;
http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...AIBAJ&pg=4091,5682654&dq=woodland+stove&hl=en
Does this have a factory baffle or homemade? Can you see directly out the exhaust when you open the doors? The Fisher vent collar protrudes 3" into the firebox. If you could measure yours, we will know if they are the same as mentioned in the Glass Door ad above that mentions "extended flue".
Thanks !
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WOW an 8 inch protrusion down is the secret. I can't tell if you have a manual damper in the flue, but that would help even more to control draft mostly during open burning, and fine tune it closed. Is the outlet 8 inch reduced to 6, or 10 reduced to 8? Double wall pipe that high to prevent rapid cooling of single wall pipe? Reducing size is great for heat output, but like I mentioned, codes are written to only allow an increase in flue size, not a reduction. The stoves with double doors back then were sized with an oversize outlet for open door burning, so closed it becomes a radiant heater and you're just right, reduced. Unfortunately the codes don't take that into consideration. If an insurance co. or code official comes out to look at it, (as long as they're ok using codes or standards for an Unlisted (untested) stove, they will be looking for 3 screws in each pipe joint, floor protection 18" all the way around, (shown in a diagram here; https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/wood_stove_clearances_installing_it_safely )
One of the things that would have needed to be changed on the stove for UL approval would be a frame around the screen to prevent logs from rolling out. Cool spring type handles, so the part you touch when removing it stays below certain temps...... that sort of thing.
The 1980 ad mentions the bafffle, so if yours has none, (a plate across the stove below the outlet to prevent heat from directly escaping on an angle that also creates turbulence and rolls unburned particles back into the flame) it would be earlier than that. If they progressed like Fisher had to, and keep up with particulate emissions, they would have had to go to the baffle, and possibly bent corners instead of welded seams in the firebox corners for UL and other testing approval. When one was approved, it was used in the advertisment as a selling point, so dated ads help date the improvments and UL Listing dates.
For efficiency, think of the outlet being a vacuum pulling the heat and byproducts of combustion out. You don't want this suction at the top where it naturally rises and escapes. You want it low, like they did with the flue extension into the box. The longer you can keep the heated gasses in the stove, circulating with turbulence preferred from the step stop, or baffle, the better. So slowing down the velocity at the collar with a damper is the idea. The higher the velocity, the lower the pressure. Barometric air pressure rushing in the intakes is what is trying to balance this low pressure area. So less pressure differential from inside to out, decreases the amount of available air, slowing the burn. In the large area it's in, you may already have the balance you need without the damper.
If you're close to the border, I'd take a ride to the shop between St Paul and Minneapolis to see if Peter is still involved with the business, if it was sold, or maybe being operated by someone who worked there when they were made. (the only Peter Solac in the country is still in Minnesota and 62, so he may still be the owner there, doesn't hurt to ask!) I've found most Fisher fabricators had workers at the time that became managers and now owners of the hearth shop, so they can give you the history and details and stories of the stoves development.
This guy may have copied at the time from J & J Fabricators (Jake Jackson) in Oregon who came up with the double door stove idea and started Frontier, so he could have stolen it from them, not Fisher....... but then he may not be forthcoming with some information if he feels guilty about it today. It's been so long ago, most I've talked to have let it go and we can laugh about it today. Here's Jakes double door patent; (broken link removed to http://www.google.com/patents?id=eMotAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q&f;=false) His address was only a few miles from Bob, and he actually went to Bob to have him weld an outdoor BBQ for him and Bob turned him down since he was busy with his new stove shop. Instead, he taught Jake to weld and sold him a license to build Fisher Stoves. He even loaned him $1000 for his first steel order ! Jake wanted Bob to start a 2 door line so people could view the fire, Bob wanted no part of more door patterns. So Jake started making his own Fisher version, got caught in his shop in Redmond OR and agreed to terminate his license.
The door sealing system may show which one he copied from. Jake used 1/2" round rod, Bob Fisher used 1 inch flat channel iron. Neither used gasket material. Wish I was close ! Good luck !
One of the things that would have needed to be changed on the stove for UL approval would be a frame around the screen to prevent logs from rolling out. Cool spring type handles, so the part you touch when removing it stays below certain temps...... that sort of thing.
The 1980 ad mentions the bafffle, so if yours has none, (a plate across the stove below the outlet to prevent heat from directly escaping on an angle that also creates turbulence and rolls unburned particles back into the flame) it would be earlier than that. If they progressed like Fisher had to, and keep up with particulate emissions, they would have had to go to the baffle, and possibly bent corners instead of welded seams in the firebox corners for UL and other testing approval. When one was approved, it was used in the advertisment as a selling point, so dated ads help date the improvments and UL Listing dates.
For efficiency, think of the outlet being a vacuum pulling the heat and byproducts of combustion out. You don't want this suction at the top where it naturally rises and escapes. You want it low, like they did with the flue extension into the box. The longer you can keep the heated gasses in the stove, circulating with turbulence preferred from the step stop, or baffle, the better. So slowing down the velocity at the collar with a damper is the idea. The higher the velocity, the lower the pressure. Barometric air pressure rushing in the intakes is what is trying to balance this low pressure area. So less pressure differential from inside to out, decreases the amount of available air, slowing the burn. In the large area it's in, you may already have the balance you need without the damper.
If you're close to the border, I'd take a ride to the shop between St Paul and Minneapolis to see if Peter is still involved with the business, if it was sold, or maybe being operated by someone who worked there when they were made. (the only Peter Solac in the country is still in Minnesota and 62, so he may still be the owner there, doesn't hurt to ask!) I've found most Fisher fabricators had workers at the time that became managers and now owners of the hearth shop, so they can give you the history and details and stories of the stoves development.
This guy may have copied at the time from J & J Fabricators (Jake Jackson) in Oregon who came up with the double door stove idea and started Frontier, so he could have stolen it from them, not Fisher....... but then he may not be forthcoming with some information if he feels guilty about it today. It's been so long ago, most I've talked to have let it go and we can laugh about it today. Here's Jakes double door patent; (broken link removed to http://www.google.com/patents?id=eMotAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q&f;=false) His address was only a few miles from Bob, and he actually went to Bob to have him weld an outdoor BBQ for him and Bob turned him down since he was busy with his new stove shop. Instead, he taught Jake to weld and sold him a license to build Fisher Stoves. He even loaned him $1000 for his first steel order ! Jake wanted Bob to start a 2 door line so people could view the fire, Bob wanted no part of more door patterns. So Jake started making his own Fisher version, got caught in his shop in Redmond OR and agreed to terminate his license.
The door sealing system may show which one he copied from. Jake used 1/2" round rod, Bob Fisher used 1 inch flat channel iron. Neither used gasket material. Wish I was close ! Good luck !
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sorry i was wrong about explaining it correctly the pipe inlet is flush with the top and on the inside their is and 8 inch half moon baffle . i need to find out where and when the stove was made and if i can find a manual.i really like this stove i can easily change out the pipes you will half to bare with me my wife usually does this for me your help has been great
What are the odds, another woodland showed up. But I doubt he has the owners manual.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/89574/
What did you find out from your insurance company, will they insure a stove with no UL plate?
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/89574/
What did you find out from your insurance company, will they insure a stove with no UL plate?
Do you have the model of the woodland stove you had in the pic with the squirrel on the front. It is a dire emergency.
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If you're still looking for the UL listing, other labs did testing up until '79 but were not recognized nationwide. UL later became the accepted testing lab nationwide. Tags didn't start until 1980. Fisher had to add shields bottom and rear for UL approval. I don't think Woodland ever added shields for UL testing.
No appliance is considered "Listed" without a tag. Even if it is supposedly a tested model since you can't prove the stove is complete as tested. Example; If a stove is tested and you remove the shield with tag - it is no longer "as tested" - the shield with tag has to be there. The bare stove would loose it's UL rating since it wasn't tested as modified.
You can verify that by contacting Peter, who started the company trademark in 1977 and I believe is still the owner.
Link to his website below;
Notice the pics of custom made fireplaces. In early years, they used your type single doors left over from production for side loading doors.
(broken link removed)
http://www.woodlandstoves.com/Index.html
You don't want Woodland Stoves LTD. That is a different company started in 1984.
No appliance is considered "Listed" without a tag. Even if it is supposedly a tested model since you can't prove the stove is complete as tested. Example; If a stove is tested and you remove the shield with tag - it is no longer "as tested" - the shield with tag has to be there. The bare stove would loose it's UL rating since it wasn't tested as modified.
You can verify that by contacting Peter, who started the company trademark in 1977 and I believe is still the owner.
Link to his website below;
Notice the pics of custom made fireplaces. In early years, they used your type single doors left over from production for side loading doors.
(broken link removed)
http://www.woodlandstoves.com/Index.html
You don't want Woodland Stoves LTD. That is a different company started in 1984.
![[Hearth.com] need help finding information on this wood stove](https://www.hearth.com/talk/data/attachments/174/174758-9371394d71f16317afd8ca3ed30415da.jpg?hash=dWhgHyD_v1 "[Hearth.com] need help finding information on this wood stove")
Yea, still can't find a solid match or image of what brand it is. Any help is aporeciated
Sorry about that, I missed the dash in Fire-view ! That may make a difference in search criteria.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/fire-view-wood-stove/
https://www.hearth.com/images/uploads/fire-view.pdf
Seems the originals of that style were all from Oregon, so being on the East Coast it's probably a copy?
Does it have an ash drawer? Need more pics of the ends.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/fire-view-wood-stove/
https://www.hearth.com/images/uploads/fire-view.pdf
Seems the originals of that style were all from Oregon, so being on the East Coast it's probably a copy?
Does it have an ash drawer? Need more pics of the ends.
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Slocketman
Member
Sorry Insurance400, I've got no idea.
Here's a mid '80s wood/coal burning catalytic insert/stove if anyone would like to guess the make & model.
I actually know what it is (don't check my signature), but if anyone has more information on it than the specifications plate shows, or knows where I might be able to find a manual for it, please let me know:
![[Hearth.com] need help finding information on this wood stove](https://www.hearth.com/talk/data/attachments/174/174819-548e22d39f3bd32d1c61f1ac55ae6a04.jpg?hash=TYqVrD0R59 "[Hearth.com] need help finding information on this wood stove")
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