Need a boiler,after fire shutdown

[salecker]

Hi All
Once again i am looking to see if anyone has an idea on a issue i would like to change on my system.
With storage in my system the boiler shutdown takes to long after the fire is out, which then allows the fan to keep running which cools the boiler.
Having a shutdown for the fan once the fire is out would allow me to build a fire before i leave to go away for the day.Which would then give me more storage for being away till the evening.
Thanks for any ideas.
Thomas

 

[brenndatomu]

Thermocouple in the stovepipe, Auber temp controller programmed to shut off fan at whatever temp you deem appropriate...not expensive, or complicated to set up...I've used this arrangement as a "coals saver" it works well.
There are cheaper temp controllers out there, but spend another $20 and be done with it... Auber has good tech assistance too.
They have quite a few options, but this seems like a good one.

1/16 DIN PID Temperature Controller (For Relay) [SYL-2342] - $42.98 : Auber Instruments, Inc., Temperature control solutions for home and industry

Auber Instruments, Inc. 1/16 DIN PID Temperature Controller (For Relay) [SYL-2342] - Product Updates: The Wi-Fi-enabled version is now available! Check AW-SYL-2342 for details. This is a dual display 1/16 DIN size (1.89x1.89" or 48 x 48 mm) temperature/process controller. Common applications of...

www.auberins.com

 

[airlina]

Thomas, I have used 2 of the above mentioned PID controllers for several years with thermocouples in the flue pipe . One controls the boiler fan and the other controls the boiler to storage pump. I am retired and most of the time I am around during my daily burn so usually i monitor and manually shut down the boiler when all the fuel is burned, but the PID's will shut off these functions if I'm not around. There is a catch to using these temp controllers however: you must make sure that they are set to a flue temp that is low enough (mine are set at 130 deg) so they won't shut down your blower during an idle period of the burn. When this happens with fuel left in the burn chamber the fan will not come back on and my pump stays off which will cause a boiler overheat. When I do a manual shutoff, I verify all the fuel is burned and can shutoff the boiler at 170 deg flue temp or below. As i said above , with the PID's I set them to 130 deg to make absolutely sure the fuel is totally burned before shutdown. Your results may vary so if you go this route , you will have to experiment with your boiler to find a sweet spot for shutdown. If you recall I'm running the Econoburn 100 with 500 gals of storage. Bruce

 

[salecker]

Hi Bruce
Thanks i have the 200 with 1000 gal storage, so it should be close to the same.
All i want to shut down is the fan after the wood is gone. My thought is the pump can continue to run till the original shutdown is triggered to shut the boiler off,then pump to storage shuts down.That way the BTU's in the hot boiler can get transferred into storage.

 

[salecker]

Thermocouple in the stovepipe, Auber temp controller programmed to shut off fan at whatever temp you deem appropriate...not expensive, or complicated to set up...I've used this arrangement as a "coals saver" it works well.
There are cheaper temp controllers out there, but spend another $20 and be done with it... Auber has good tech assistance too.
They have quite a few options, but this seems like a good one.

1/16 DIN PID Temperature Controller (For Relay) [SYL-2342] - $42.98 : Auber Instruments, Inc., Temperature control solutions for home and industry

Auber Instruments, Inc. 1/16 DIN PID Temperature Controller (For Relay) [SYL-2342] - Product Updates: The Wi-Fi-enabled version is now available! Check AW-SYL-2342 for details. This is a dual display 1/16 DIN size (1.89x1.89" or 48 x 48 mm) temperature/process controller. Common applications of...

www.auberins.com

Thanks for that link, are they fairly reliable? Should a person get a backup one to have on hand?

 

[brenndatomu]

Thanks for that link, are they fairly reliable? Should a person get a backup one to have on hand?

Yes, they are pretty reliable, but since you are a lil more in the boonies, maybe have a backup (or maybe not, since you are not planning on using it as a critical feature.
As for the above mentioned shutoff point...I believe you could get a model controller that would allow a "reset" if the boiler was just on an idle period (although that doesn't apply to you) or possibly could wire a relay that would allow it too...would have to think about that a bit...

 

[Tonty]

Thermocouple in the stovepipe, Auber temp controller programmed to shut off fan at whatever temp you deem appropriate...not expensive, or complicated to set up...I've used this arrangement as a "coals saver" it works well.
There are cheaper temp controllers out there, but spend another $20 and be done with it... Auber has good tech assistance too.
They have quite a few options, but this seems like a good one.

1/16 DIN PID Temperature Controller (For Relay) [SYL-2342] - $42.98 : Auber Instruments, Inc., Temperature control solutions for home and industry

Auber Instruments, Inc. 1/16 DIN PID Temperature Controller (For Relay) [SYL-2342] - Product Updates: The Wi-Fi-enabled version is now available! Check AW-SYL-2342 for details. This is a dual display 1/16 DIN size (1.89x1.89" or 48 x 48 mm) temperature/process controller. Common applications of...

www.auberins.com

This is similar to how my Switzer is controlled. There isn’t any really an idle portion of burn on a Switzer, so it’s set to shut off when flue temps get down to 210. Usually that is perfect, all usable wood is gone. There’s a manual override timer that you set (actually I just put mine on a switch) that’s kept on until flue temps reach 220, after that is closed or off there are two controllers that run the dampers (actually the dampers are controlled even while the override is on), and also shut it down when either the flue temp high limit or low limit is reached.

 

[cumminstinkerer]

Thomas, Bruce's setup is basically what I had on the Econoburn, I still have all of it, it is the last piece I want to add to the polar as well, just in case I let her run out of wood, don't need the draft fan running cooling the water down, I plan to set it up to shut fan and boiler to storage pump off when flue temp drops below set point

 

[sloeffle]

In my basement, I setup a panel with a couple Auber instruments PID controllers. I have a low temperature water alarm setup so it will alert me if the water is below 140F. I bought a pex T and added a short piece because of the probe length. If you want some pics, let me know. The best thing about my water alarm is when it wakes you up at 4AM.

My G4000 will shut the boiler fan down if the water temperatures are below whatever set point you desire. It won't shut the pumps off though.

 

[salecker]

Pictures are always great...
Now i have to wait till our postal strike is over and get some goodies ordered and see what i can rig up.

 

[salecker]

Dragging this forward as we have rejoined civilization with a post office, plus i was working on my waste oil furnace with a retired furnace tech/electrician.I had picked up a universal ignition controller during covid as it was all i could get.
His concern about it was the fact they don't like dirty power as there is some computer stuffs in it.
So how do the Auber Instruments unit mentioned above stand up to dirty power?
Thanks

 

[brenndatomu]

Dragging this forward as we have rejoined civilization with a post office, plus i was working on my waste oil furnace with a retired furnace tech/electrician.I had picked up a universal ignition controller during covid as it was all i could get.
His concern about it was the fact they don't like dirty power as there is some computer stuffs in it.
So how do the Auber Instruments unit mentioned above stand up to dirty power?
Thanks

Don't have that issue here really, (that I'm aware of) so dunno for sure, but they are not basement bargain controllers, so I'd expect them to be fine?
They have excellent customer service/tech line, call 'em n ask.
What exactly causes you to say it's "dirty"?

 

[salecker]

Lots of fluctuations and outages
Rural out in the sticks, our grid isn't hooked to civilization to get a constant flow
Dirty is the term the electricians use

 

[pettibone]

I have an aquastat on my tarm that does what you want. Power comes through a 3 way switch so one way goes direct to the fan and the other way it goes to the aquastat and then to the fan, pretty simple. Just have the bulb laying on top of the boiler with a piece of metal to hold it in contact and insulation on top. Have to play around with it a little to get it to shut off when you want but it works great.

 

[salecker]

I have an aquastat on my tarm that does what you want. Power comes through a 3 way switch so one way goes direct to the fan and the other way it goes to the aquastat and then to the fan, pretty simple. Just have the bulb laying on top of the boiler with a piece of metal to hold it in contact and insulation on top. Have to play around with it a little to get it to shut off when you want but it works great.

My boiler has that already
What i need is to shut my fan off once the fire is gone. As it is the fan will continue to run essentially cooling the boiler till the aquastate comes into play. Seeing i have 1000 gallons of storage that takes quite a while for the boiler to cool enough for it to shut down, all the time blowing BTU's out the chimmany.

 

[cumminstinkerer]

@salecker I am still going to set mine back up with the setup I had on the Econoburn, didn't I send you a link to what I used for a controller? when I get a chance and get it wired up I will send you a drawing of how I do it. the polar will do what yours does if the fire runs out or on the rare occasion it gets a bridge, maybe once a year. normal running it will shut down all the inlet air and just idle, but not enough to smoke or do anything really after a minute or so, but in those rare times mentioned above, if the boiler is wanting to fire but stack temp doesn't come up I want it to shut the fan and circ down so I'm not pumping heat out of storage to the outside! I still have the controls from the econoburn, just have to rearrange some wiring, probably wont be doing that until a week from saturday, cold out and gotta play catch-up after being gone for five days last week on a little vacation.

 

[pettibone]

If you already have one why can't you change the temperature setting on that to make it shut off when it's hotter? The way mine is you could have it shut off at any temp and then with a 3 way switch you could switch it right back to the normal operation. All it controls on mine is the fan but it's not automatic, have to flip the switch.

 

[cumminstinkerer]

I had to change some of the wiring to work with how the polar is wired and I just havent went back to get it set back up

 

[salecker]

If you already have one why can't you change the temperature setting on that to make it shut off when it's hotter? The way mine is you could have it shut off at any temp and then with a 3 way switch you could switch it right back to the normal operation. All it controls on mine is the fan but it's not automatic, have to flip the switch.

The aquastates on mine send the info to the control board which control's the pumps and fan.
When storage gets to max around 186 F the boiler is at that temp as well. I want the pump to keep pumping once the fire is gone, till it gets to it's set temp to shut down. But i don't want the fan to keep running as it sends cold air through the boiler and the heat out the chimmany.

 

[cumminstinkerer]

The aquastates on mine send the info to the control board which control's the pumps and fan.
When storage gets to max around 186 F the boiler is at that temp as well. I want the pump to keep pumping once the fire is gone, till it gets to it's set temp to shut down. But i don't want the fan to keep running as it sends cold air through the boiler and the heat out the chimmany.

Thomas that is exactly how mine is going to be setup, it's all simple relays and a couple cheap amazon temp sensors, some of how I had the econoburn setup wont work with the polar's main controls so I have to do the rewiring, I think I might have a hundred bucks in the whole control box, but I have two extra temp sensor/displays that you wouldn't need, I must admit though the relays were scrounged from my time as mobility equipment repair tech, they came off of VPL's but surprisingly they are pretty cheap from mouser, a guy could also use contactors for a well pump and accomplish the same thing, I think they are around 20 bucks from menards, probably cheaper online and easier for you to get. you do have to have a manual overide in the setup so that when you start a fire you can force it to run, mine is a simple light switch so no major expense there either, if i get some time to think through it tonight I will draw out a rough schematic for you, just not sure if I'll have time tonight or not, depends on if I gotta help dad or my buddy on anything after work.

 

[salecker]

Sounds great
having it cheap and simple is defiantly my way.