My Stainless Steel Liner is a Heat Exchanger-Gets a lot of heat out of an insert instead of going up

[swestall]

You are right about that Cath, then he basically said, well that's how I like it.
All that's left is the ticking of the time, which I hope is set to go off way down the road, when no one's home or not at all; only time will tell. Sorry, not safe.

 

[Cath]

You are right about that Cath, then he basically said, well that's how I like it.
All that's left is the ticking of the time, which I hope is set to go off way down the road, when no one's home or not at all; only time will tell. Sorry, not safe.

swestall,
I may be missing something since the posts are so wide due to the pictures, which makes it difficult to read. But I skimmed the thread again and I see where one other poster referred to the "hole in the chimney". Then the OP did post again and responded to most of the other concerns but I don't think he even mentioned the issue of the chimney's structural integrity.

I'm no scientific genius or construction expert but aside from anything else you've got one of the most fundamental principles of physics to contend with, gravity. I'm sure there are others but that's the most obvious one. Unless that hole has been reinforced somehow, common sense tells us that it is only a matter of time before the weak spot becomes a problem, which may be sooner than one might think if there are any other incidental existing problems, such as deteriorating mortar.

Allowing for the off season I'm thinking there's approximately a 50% chance that the chimney will start to break down while the stove is running. What do you think will happen to the liner then?

Assuming for the sake of discussion that he's lucky and this does happen in the off season how much do you think it will cost to repair the chimney and any collateral damage? For that matter, what do do you suppose this set up does to the value of the house? Not even because of the aesthetics but because a significant structural modification was made without pulling a permit.

This whole thing kind of reminds me of the story my dad tells about a friend that wanted to remove a fireplace and the lower part of a chimney without also removing the top of the chimney.

To say that this set up is "penny wise and pound foolish" is probably an understatment. One way or the other it's going to cost him more in the end. I just hope it doesn't cost anyone their life.

~Cath

 

[swestall]

AAAAAAAAAAA-MEN!!

 

[CountryGal]

Sorry, this looks very scary to me. I'd rather sleep in a cold bedroom (and I DO...our bedroom is downstairs with no heat!) than worry about a fire coming into my upstairs bedroom. As far as removing the bricks, can't tell by the pictures whether he put cross braces in there or not. Doesn't look like it.

Just a suggestion, but putting so many pictures in the post blows the margins really, really bad. Hard to read a post when you have to scroll left to right and back again.

 

[iceman]

This holds true with most inserts - that a sheet metal block off plate and very loose (or no) front panels will result in better performance and more heat. It's just physics - heat trapped back in the fireplace will tend to be lost if the fireplace is partially exterior.

I'm sure you will get a lot of heat, but adding some is always nice also.

thats funny you said most, i took off my panels and didn't really notice a difference!

 

[Hogwildz]

This holds true with most inserts - that a sheet metal block off plate and very loose (or no) front panels will result in better performance and more heat. It's just physics - heat trapped back in the fireplace will tend to be lost if the fireplace is partially exterior.

I'm sure you will get a lot of heat, but adding some is always nice also.

thats funny you said most, i took off my panels and didn't really notice a difference!

Ice,
the Summit has an outer case (gray outer box) so the hot air is mostly between the insert itself & the outer casing. You then have the top are open where the blown air comes out, and the side grilles, so you have no need to take the surrounds off on this insert. Many other inserts do not have the casing, then it might be beneficial to take the surrounds off.

As to the person that is purchasing an insert without the blower:
Anyone that listens to a dealer about not needing a blower on their insert, is just naive. When its below 20 out and your wondering why your not getting the heat you expect from the insert, buy the blower, put the blower in, then you will understand why I am saying this.
Why do so many folks decide to drop a big chunk of change, and not research what they are getting and how it performs. I would never go by dealers advice alone.
Keep in mind, adding a blower after installation may not be so easy. You might have to pull the insert back out depending on the insert. Certainly easier to have it installed prior to complete installation.

 

[iceman]

This holds true with most inserts - that a sheet metal block off plate and very loose (or no) front panels will result in better performance and more heat. It's just physics - heat trapped back in the fireplace will tend to be lost if the fireplace is partially exterior.

I'm sure you will get a lot of heat, but adding some is always nice also.

thats funny you said most, i took off my panels and didn't really notice a difference!

Ice,
the Summit has an outer case (gray outer box) so the hot air is mostly between the insert itself & the outer casing. You then have the top are open where the blown air comes out, and the side grilles, so you have no need to take the surrounds off on this insert. Many other inserts do not have the casing, then it might be beneficial to take the surrounds off.

As to the person that is purchasing an insert without the blower:
Anyone that listens to a dealer about not needing a blower on their insert, is just naive. When its below 20 out and your wondering why your not getting the heat you expect from the insert, buy the blower, put the blower in, then you will understand why I am saying this.
Why do so many folks decide to drop a big chunk of change, and not research what they are getting and how it performs. I would never go by dealers advice alone.
Keep in mind, adding a blower after installation may not be so easy. You might have to pull the insert back out depending on the insert. Certainly easier to have it installed prior to complete installation.

Hog you are right i took it off thinking i was gonna get more and ...nope then i realized exactly what you said .. thats why i said i did say he mentioned most ... as us summit owners do not fall in that category... LOL $2000 SPENT WELL

LONG LIVE PE

 

[NJPyro]

point taken...I made the 'ass'umption this was worthwhile...I'll be sure to keep everyone posted...hopefully I'll get enough out of this thing without resorting to major re engineering...I figure I can always locate a fan to help get some of the heat out into the room if needed...the heatilator wasn't exactly a blast furnace either...

 

[milner351]

Hog - are you saying that summit inserts don't require block off plates above the insert --- or, are you saying we don't need to loosen up our trim panels?

 

[iceman]

Hog - are you saying that summit inserts don't require block off plates above the insert --- or, are you saying we don't need to loosen up our trim panels?

he is saying we don't need to loosen our panels because so much air flows around the summit and out the other side and so forth .....you have a great stove!!
and you should definitely cut back on the amount of outside air you have coming to the stove ... in your setup i bet some of that cold air is getting into your fan and kinda killing your heat output

 

[jimtmcdaniels]

PS If anyone is interested in what auto on/off stove fan I used, here's the link on e-bay:
(broken link removed to http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260194919124)

They still are selling some for $43 with shipping.
They are a "Desa GA6020A" blower. Sold for Comfort Glow and Glo Warm stoves.
The three wiring from the motor windings out are rated 125 degrees celsius, I recommend you use the same heat rating or higher for any alterations you need to make.
It's really a two speed motor that's why it has 3 wires out of the motor (1 for neutral and 1 for each of the two speeds). The factory wires it so the lower speed comes on when the switch is in the auto setting regulated by the temperature on off under 100 degrees sensor. The high speed is wired to come in when the switch is in the on position.
The speeds are almost the same. I just wired it to use the high speed in either the auto or on switch setting.

Cheers

 

[CONCORDE]

This particular topic is making me shudder. If left alone without question, others may read this and proceed with their own attempts to reclaim heat from their smokepipes and chimneys. This is a very BAD idea.

One of the reasons this site exists if to share opinions, and that is a great thing. Only problem with that is, just like belly-buttons -- everyone has one (an opinion, that is).
There are good reasons why heat reclaimers are not recommended by experienced installers. There are good reasons why mainstream manufacturers do not offer heat reclaimers. There are good reasons why training programs discourage heat reclaimers. And there are very good reasons why inspectors and fire inspectors frown on heat reclaimers.

While yes, you are pulling heat from your chimney -- you are also cooling your flue gases!! Whether you think so or not, it will lead to problems over time. Aside from creosote accumulations, acid from the condensate within the flue gases will gradually turn your liner into swiss cheese. You state that, "I’m not so concerned with chimney fires because from what I’ve read they happen and it’s no big deal especially with a liner." This could not be further from the truth. A fire within a liner could quickly cause it to fail. If and when this happens, it will not be gradual. It will happen in a hurry with a full-force fire underway that is very difficult to contain without professional firefighters on hand. What then? Will you claim you didn' t know what could happen?