My Geospring

[john193]

Your delivery bill is also likely paying for the big rebate you got on that water heater.

My utility has an FAQ dedicated to similar questions and they state that the funds come from grants and the state at no extra cost to the customer. The funds are also limited and the program ceases once it runs dry.

Additionally these rebates wouldn't exist if the utility itself also did not benefit. Each utility has a finite capacity and at times of extreme conditions this capacity may be stressed due to inefficient appliances, by moving consumers and businesses to energy efficient appliances the utility preserves it's capacity. For example, the company I work for has it in the contract that should the utility not be able to provide enough power due to the utilities capacity, they must pay us to run our generators. I doubt my business is the only one.

 

[velvetfoot]

In NY, rebates come from utility bills.

 

[woodgeek]

In CT and MA the rebates and audit work are also paid from a utility bill rider. PA no. That's why the program in PA is less generous...I got a 0% loan for the full cost, rather than a heavily subsidized retrofit.

My sister works for the CT program.

 

[joe simmons]

I've been looking at geo spring and wondering how much the savings would be monthly ?i don't think I can get any rebates through my electric company it's a coop here in western Pa! Glad to see all this feedback on the geospring!

 

[john193]

I've had a full month on my electric bill with the unit and my bill went up about 50 kW from the same time last year. A very mild hit to my electric bill. Mind you this is not a scientific comparison by any means. And I'm sure the unit will be at its peak efficiency during the warmer months since my basement naturally stays warmer.

Since the unit runs less than I assumed I realize now I was a little naive to assume this could take a big chunk out of my use of a dehumidifier. I still use the dehumidifier but the water heater certainly doesn't hurt the equation.

 

[STIHLY DAN]

I use hot water for everything in the summer. dishes, laundry, washing hands, floors, brushing teeth. Just to keep that sucker running, does a great job dehumidifying and less moisture coming of the cold water pipes. I have been running mine almost 2 yrs. paid for itself before it was even installed, now that its running I am saving more than $100 a month. Savings of $1,900 to date and growing.

 

[TradEddie]

Mine is in a week now. I'm trying it in heat pump only first, I won't switch to hybrid unless I find it necessary, perhaps during the winter.
It is louder than I expected, but not an issue in the basement. Basement air temp drops about 2F after heavy water use recovery cycle, humidity drops 8-10%, lots of condensate. The default setting of 120F is a little cool for me, 128 seems about right.

As I expected, the real cost is going to be addressing my water neutralizer problems ($2k+) so that I don't rot out this heater in a few years like the previous ones, although it appears that inspecting/replacing the anode is an easy job, unlike the terrible design of the Bradford White.
Will report back with a few months of bills, I have a dedicated meter for the dryer and water heater so I can quantify any savings a little easier.

TE

 

[STIHLY DAN]

There is a 10 year warranty on the tank, and its glass lined so not much to rot. I little info I learned, or forgot the other day After power is interrupted it goes into a 30 min self test. So if you think of running it on a generator during power outages because it only draws 650 watts, DON'T! It runs for 20 mins on electric element at 4,500 watts. oops.

 

[TradEddie]

There is a 10 year warranty on the tank, and its glass lined so not much to rot. I little info I learned, or forgot the other day After power is interrupted it goes into a 30 min self test. So if you think of running it on a generator during power outages because it only draws 650 watts, DON'T! It runs for 20 mins on electric element at 4,500 watts. oops.

They are all supposed to be "glass lined", but the elements and their connections, and all entry/exit points are just steel (not even stainless, perhaps galvanized). If there was nothing to rust, they wouldn't need a sacrificial anode. I've got serious well water acidity problems, assisted by the previous owner's negligence in maintaining the neutralizer, so we've rusted through 3 glass lined water heaters in less than 12 years, one very spectacularly. Time to buy a new neutralization system, and keep a regular check on that anode. Warranty specifically does not include replacement of anode, or damage due to water conditions or failure to inspect/replace the anode.

I ran the Geospring through a tough challenge last night. My wife had a bath, followed in less that an hour by one kid's long shower, then mine. My shower was hot enough, but only just. On HP only, I think that was a success.

TE

 

[STIHLY DAN]

A way to help get more out of it, is install a mixing valve and crank up the heater to 140. I do this in the summer when the wood furnace is not helping it. Also because I want it to run more in the summer. I have 3 teenagers and a hot water whore wife.

 

[goldfishcastle]

Not sure what winters in southeast PA are like but, are you at all concerned about the increased work load for your heating system?

 

[TradEddie]

Not sure what winters in southeast PA are like but, are you at all concerned about the increased work load for your heating system?

A HPWH isn't recommended to be installed in a conditioned area, but even if it was, the worst that would happen is that the house heating source would be the source for the water heat, so unless the cost/BTU of home heating is higher than the electric, you're not losing. Last winter propane prices were above that threshold, but that's not normally true, and for those with city gas, should never come close.

Ideally the HPWH is in a non-conditioned but well insulated area such as a basement. Even last winter, my basement never fell below 55F, still well above the point of efficient HP heat. Before I insulated and air-sealed, I had frost on the inside of the basement windows.

Update on operating mode, two incidents of running low on hot water since installation, both from the extreme end of normal use, but it is clear that the recovery speed of HP only mode is not sufficient for our normal use patterns. Switched to hybrid last night.

TE

 

[john193]

Not sure what winters in southeast PA are like but, are you at all concerned about the increased work load for your heating system?

This is a point to consider and the manual for the heater also discusses. My unit is installed in my unconditioned basement that typically stays around 55, even last winter.

The unit is equivalent to a 6k btu air conditioner when running. The manual states NOT to condition a room solely for the heater, because that will decrease your overall efficiency. That loss in efficiency becomes even less if heating with a wood or pellet stove.

Alternatively, some people will switch from heat pump only to hybrid in the winter to allow the heating elements to do some of the lifting, the idea here being that you still average out a savings when factoring all 4 seasons.

 

[goldfishcastle]

So these are not installed in the same space as your furnace?

 

[john193]

So these are not installed in the same space as your furnace?

mine is, but my furnace has been turned off. My basement is completely underground and even when it was -2 out, the basement was right around 55.

 

[TradEddie]

Same here, mine is in a well insulated, non heated basement, the furnace is there too so there is some incidental heating. 66-68F in Summer, no lower than 55F in Winter. GE claims HP is efficient down to 48F, IIRC. Below that, it's still as efficient than a regular electric heater.
Design-wise, I think it would be great if it could be supplied with external ducting, because in the summer, it would be great to supply it with 80-90F external air, but the commercial reality is that few people want a device that needs to be adjusted each season, and external ducting brings many other costs and problems too.

TE

 

[Brian26]

I have had my Geospring connected to my Efergy energy monitor for the last week. I have had the unit for over a year with no issues. I run it in heat pump only mode. It is in my unfinished basement that stays 70-75 in the summer and around 55-60 in the winter.

Quite impressive when analyzing the numbers. I am in CT where electricity is expensive. I think we are the 2nd most expensive state after Hawaii. Currently pay .20-.22 KWH delivered. Looks to be about $12 a month to heat my hot water. It is just my girlfriend and I so a family will probably be more.

Mine pulls about 500-600 watts when running vs 4500 on a standard element unit. You need to keep in mind the advertising savings is running it in hybrid mode where the elements are used.

I am sure that many members have much cheaper electric rates where you could realistically spend just a few dollars a month.

 

[STIHLY DAN]

That would be a good comparison test in January. see how much difference 15* really is in $$$

 

[woodgeek]

Nice. I figure my HPWH in HP only mode is also costing my ~$15/mo @$0.13/kWh. But I have two teen/tween daughters.

 

[TradEddie]

OK, first month update. I have a dedicated meter for my dryer and hot water (and rarely used baseboards). My lowest usage over the past year was 255kWh, it's typically about 300kWh. My first full month with the Geospring was 134kWh. We were away on vacation in August, but that's still at least 120kWh less than other vacation bills.

No problems to report, although HP mode was abandoned after about two weeks, the slow recovery just didn't suit our occasionally high demand. No cold showers since switching to hybrid mode, despite valiant efforts by the less energy-conscious.

The rebate came within 3 weeks, that leaves only about $200 additional investment over regular heater, so unless switching to hybrid causes a huge increase in consumption, payback will be less than a year.

TE

 

[john193]

OK, first month update. I have a dedicated meter for my dryer and hot water (and rarely used baseboards). My lowest usage over the past year was 255kWh, it's typically about 300kWh. My first full month with the Geospring was 134kWh. We were away on vacation in August, but that's still at least 120kWh less than other vacation bills.

No problems to report, although HP mode was abandoned after about two weeks, the slow recovery just didn't suit our occasionally high demand. No cold showers since switching to hybrid mode, despite valiant efforts by the less energy-conscious.

The rebate came within 3 weeks, that leaves only about $200 additional investment over regular heater, so unless switching to hybrid causes a huge increase in consumption, payback will be less than a year.

TE

Did you use the vacation mode while you were away? I'm curious to hear how the setting worked and if that aided in your savings.

 

[TradEddie]

Did you use the vacation mode while you were away? I'm curious to hear how the setting worked and if that aided in your savings.

I did, and as I mentioned, I was running in HP only mode for some of that month too. Next month will tell me a lot more. I doubt that vacation mode helps much for a well insulated heater, but for a few extra lines of code on a circuit board, it costs almost nothing either.

TE

 

[john193]

I did, and as I mentioned, I was running in HP only mode for some of that month too. Next month will tell me a lot more. I doubt that vacation mode helps much for a well insulated heater, but for a few extra lines of code on a circuit board, it costs almost nothing either.

TE

I debated with insulating mine, but haven't yet. I like that it is aidingin the dehumidification of my basement so I figure let it run?

 

[TradEddie]

There's no point in insulating any reputable modern water heater, they should be well insulated from the factory. Insulating the pipes, OTOH, is a simple, cheap, easy fix.

TE

 

[STIHLY DAN]

Vacation mode just lowers the water temp for X period of time. So there will be savings. Did you install a mixing valve? I turn my geo down in the winter because the furnace helps make hot water. In spring I put it back to 140* the mixing valve is set at 130. That increases the capacity of the tank.