My Geospring

[Brian26]

So right now i have a tankless coil on my boiler, yup i hate it. Bought a 40gal indirect but havnt had it hooked up yet.
My boiler is in the basement, hampton insert on 1st floor.
Would this hphw thing be a better option for me here on longisland? Im worried in winter while inserts kicking the boiler would hardly be on to help warm my basement for the hphw to rob heat off of.

If your boiler is oil fired then yes. I switched my mom over to a Geospring 2 years ago from oil and the savings were massive on not buying oil for hot water. Especially in the warm months when the she doesnt need heat.

The new units will run down to 35 degrees before the heat pump kicks off. I am on forced hot air and my insert is upstairs. My basement temp stays around 50-55 all winter with my furnace barely running. I never use the elements.

Since your on long island. You could just drive over here to CT and get the instant utility rebate off the geospring at lowes. They used to make you mail it in but are now giving it instantly off the purchase price as the energy efficency program is flooded with money. They are running billboards all over the highways here advertising the savings on them.

I actually just checked by saying my local store was Commack LI. The price that came up was $1,399 on LI. Type in Norwalk, CT and it comes up at HALF the price at $699!

Check some of my other posts on how cheap mine is to run. I heated my hot water for $8.50 in May and that's with CT's crazy high electric rates. I am sure rates are high on LI as well.

 

[Ashful]

Check some of my other posts on how cheap mine is to run. I heated my hot water for $8.50 in May and that's with CT's crazy high electric rates. I am sure rates are high on LI as well.

My oil-fired BoilerMate costs less than $360/year to operate, and would average out to less failed parts in half a century than your GeoSpring has had in 3 years! Why would anyone ever switch, and deal with the headache of swapping all these parts, when the potential savings is less than $200 per year? If you figure 20 years on one water heater, you're surely going to come out negative, based on repair frequency. Even worse on a 30 year scale, considering anticipated lifetime/replacement.


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[cableman]

Its an 18yo oil fired peerless that hasnt gone cold cause it has to keep the coil hot for hot water. I just moved in sep 2015.

Basement also does need a dehumidifier in summer, winter with boiler on its comfortable. I did seal up the sill plates and just need to replace 3 small windows.

Electric rates are high here, dont remember what id have to look.
My 11 and 9 yo take like 20min showers at night, wife prolly the same me 3min lol
What size hphw would do?

 

[velvetfoot]

Those indirect tanks aren't cheap. I think the heat pump does help with humidity.

 

[Brian26]

My oil-fired BoilerMate costs less than $360/year to operate, and would average out to less failed parts in half a century than your GeoSpring has had in 3 years! Why would anyone ever switch, and deal with the headache of swapping all these parts, when the potential savings is less than $200 per year? If you figure 20 years on one water heater, you're surely going to come out negative, based on repair frequency. Even worse on a 30 year scale, considering anticipated lifetime/replacement.


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My Geospring was free and just cost me $8.50/month in electricity which can come from renewable sources such as solar. Your oil fired boiler probably burned that much money in oil in a few days. What about 3 years ago when heating oil was almost $4 gallon? In the course of the 3 years I owned the Geospring the repairs took less than a few hours of my time. Probably the same amount of time for a few yearly oil burner tune ups. Which also cost around $150 + a year here.

Heating water with oil is one of them most inefficient and expensive ways. I am heating my hot water with 70% less energy than you use to heat yours.

I also have the full 10 year extended coverage by lowes. In 10 years I will just get another one and will already be ahead thousands of dollars in savings.

You also need to keep in mind these are about 100% reliable in providing hot water. If there is an issue with the heat pump it switches to a basic element electric hot water heater. If for some reason an element or thermostat went bad a run to lowes or HD will have you back running quickly and cheap.

 

[cableman]

The tank i bought was $730 and $1800 to replumb my whole boiler and add circulators instead of the zone valves i have, taco zone panel and some other crap.
I could just leave the boiler and install the hphw unit myself with help of a buddy!

I would shut boiler off in summer and see if it leaks i guess.
Just dont wanna make the mistake finding out the hphw heater doesnt work well or needs repair all the time.

 

[Brian26]

Those indirect tanks aren't cheap. I think the heat pump does help with humidity.

It does. I drain a 5 gallon buckets worth every few days. Ironically the dehumidifier I used to run in the basement used more power than the Geospring itself and now I am making my hot water in the process. The savings there alone is huge if you run a dehumidifier in your basement.

 

[Brian26]

Those indirect tanks aren't cheap. I think the heat pump does help with humidity.

It does. I drain a 5 gallon buckets worth every few days. Ironically the dehumidifier I used to run in the basement used more power than the Geospring itself and now I am making my hot water in the process. The savings there alone is huge if you run a dehumidifier in your basement.

 

[cableman]

If i bought the geosprings local do i still get the rebates? Ct is just giving the rebate right away?

 

[Brian26]

If i bought the geosprings local do i still get the rebates? Ct is just giving the rebate right away?

Yes. Just walk in and buy it for $699. The rebate is factored in the price. If you haven't used it there is also a $300 or $400 federal tax credit as well.

 

[cableman]

50 gal enough for family of 4?

 

[maple1]

The bigger the better, IMO. Gives you more of a cushion of hot water for higher use periods. Should also maximize your gain in the dehumidifying aspect, maybe.

I think I would have one already if we had the rebates here that I read of on here in other areas.

BTW - an $1800 replumb? That sounds a bit out there. What are the reasons for needing to do that? And what all does it encompass? I also heat DHW with the boiler (wood) in the winter, that setup is plumbed in the same way as my heating zones. Just added a zone valve. It all uses the same circulator (Grundfoss Alpha). IMO any hot water system with multiple heating loads should be using zone valves and one Alpha circulator (variable speed constant pressure).

Likely the main factor in all this would be if you can safely let your oil boiler go cold. Not sure how much a new cold start boiler goes for these days - but I'm almost thinking that for the cost you quoted for the new tank & replumbing, you could get both a new HPWH & cold start boiler. Or not much more. Don't know much about your existing system though & the need for the replumb.

 

[cableman]

The bigger the better, IMO. Gives you more of a cushion of hot water for higher use periods. Should also maximize your gain in the dehumidifying aspect, maybe.

I think I would have one already if we had the rebates here that I read of on here in other areas.

BTW - an $1800 replumb? That sounds a bit out there. What are the reasons for needing to do that? And what all does it encompass? I also heat DHW with the boiler (wood) in the winter, that setup is plumbed in the same way as my heating zones. Just added a zone valve. It all uses the same circulator (Grundfoss Alpha). IMO any hot water system with multiple heating loads should be using zone valves and one Alpha circulator (variable speed constant pressure).

Likely the main factor in all this would be if you can safely let your oil boiler go cold. Not sure how much a new cold start boiler goes for these days - but I'm almost thinking that for the cost you quoted for the new tank & replumbing, you could get both a new HPWH & cold start boiler. Or not much more. Don't know much about your existing system though & the need for the replumb.

3 quotes 1600-2100. Thats removing the 2 zone valves and circ i have now. Install taco panel 3 circs instead of zone valves, cut out the coil and plumb all 3/4 copper instead of the 1/2" there and what ever other crap is needed.
I could prolly just leave the boiler alone aside from cutting coil out and just plumb it over to the hphw, i have a 50amp sub panel right next to it with 2 breakers feeding basement outlets and lights.
I ask 2 of the plumbers about the hphw and they never did any. I think i wanna just return that superstor indirect i bought and go the hphw way!

 

[maple1]

OK - still wondering though on the reasoning or necessity of converting from zoning by zone valve to zoning by pumps? Does the existing setup work OK? Or are there other things being accomplished or overcome also? Another consideration (not sure how important, kind of depends on priorities & preferences), is that one Alpha circulator would use quite a lot less electricity than three Taco circulators. The actual amount of consumption dollar wise may turn out to be not a whole lot, but it would be reduced.

EDIT: The dehumidification factor would also likely play a large part for me if I was running a dehumidifier anyway. They can eat some juice.

 

[cableman]

OK - still wondering though on the reasoning or necessity of converting from zoning by zone valve to zoning by pumps? Does the existing setup work OK? Or are there other things being accomplished or overcome also? Another consideration (not sure how important, kind of depends on priorities & preferences), is that one Alpha circulator would use quite a lot less electricity than three Taco circulators. The actual amount of consumption dollar wise may turn out to be not a whole lot, but it would be reduced.

EDIT: The dehumidification factor would also likely play a large part for me if I was running a dehumidifier anyway. They can eat some juice.

I guess no real reason other then all the plumbers said run all zone circulators instead if its gonna get pulled all apart anyway.
If i no longer use the dhwc in the boiler, i can just cut it out of the loop and have the boiler only turn on when a room thermastat calls for heat correct?

 

[cableman]

Whats with the the energy star 50 gal one vs the reg 50 gal? How many showers in a row can you guys get out of the 50 gal?
Also in heat pump only mode, it heats water to 125 max?

http://m.lowes.com/search?searchTerm=ge+geosprings+heat+pump+hot+water

 

[woodgeek]

Recovery times for HPWHs are slower than regular electrics, and the number of showers depends on your showerheads. Measure the flowrate with a pitcher and compute the number of shower minutes. Then figure out how long you and your family actually shower.

I got an 80 gal HPWH and low-flow (but nice) shower heads for my fam of 4. My wife and I shower in the AM, and my teen girls in the PM< so less of a concern, and 50 would've prob been ok, but YMMV. When we have houseguests that will need to shower all at once...I just put it in conventional mode. I set mine to 120° which is very nice....lower than that and legionalla becomes possible.

I like that, unlike my tankless coil, I can use both showers in my house and wash the dishes at the same time, rather than the PITA suckage of trying to worry about freezing people if I run the sink HW. No regrets, and in my case I was saving >$1000/year with HPWH versus inefficient tankless coil with $4 oil, prob $500/yr with $2 oil.

 

[maple1]

My oil-fired BoilerMate costs less than $360/year to operate, and would average out to less failed parts in half a century than your GeoSpring has had in 3 years! Why would anyone ever switch, and deal with the headache of swapping all these parts, when the potential savings is less than $200 per year? If you figure 20 years on one water heater, you're surely going to come out negative, based on repair frequency. Even worse on a 30 year scale, considering anticipated lifetime/replacement.


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Do you have a cold start boiler?

 

[cableman]

Sounds good, ill go 80gal i think being kids wanna take a bath at times. You think the 80 is any less efficient then the 50 having to heat more water?

 

[cableman]

Do you have a cold start boiler?

No i dont have it set that way but i read i can just pull the blue wire on my low temp aquastat and it wont come on to maintain the coil

 

[maple1]

I guess no real reason other then all the plumbers said run all zone circulators instead if its gonna get pulled all apart anyway.
If i no longer use the dhwc in the boiler, i can just cut it out of the loop and have the boiler only turn on when a room thermastat calls for heat correct?
View attachment 181668

I would ask the plumbers what you stand to gain by going all-circ. It's seeming to me to be a waste of money in this case - unless I am still missing something. I'm thinking you should be able to get an indirect plumbed in and the only added or new component you would need is a new zone valve for it.

Yes, you could just cut the coil out of the loop. It can stay in place, in the boiler. Having the boiler start only on call for heat is the most efficient way, but it depends on how your boiler will stand going cold. (That's what 'cold start' means). But another but - true cold start boilers have much smaller water volumes than ordinary boilers, so they can heat up quicker on start up & provide hot water much sooner. So even if your boiler could handle going cold frequently, you will see some efficiency loss in heating a bigger volume of water up & having it cool off every time it starts. Plus have to wait a bit longer before it puts out useable hot water. But (again) the efficiency shortcomings in that would likely be less than keeping the boiler hot all the time, especially if using the boiler only for DHW.

 

[maple1]

No i dont have it set that way but i read i can just pull the blue wire on my low temp aquastat and it wont come on to maintain the coil

OK - but I was wondering on Ashfuls setup.

 

[cableman]

Its a peerless wbv-03, can this boiler be a cold start? Its 18 years old but each plumber said it looks great

 

[woodgeek]

Sounds good, ill go 80gal i think being kids wanna take a bath at times. You think the 80 is any less efficient then the 50 having to heat more water?

Not such that you would care.....they are well insulated (by modern regs) and the input heat is cheap (from the HP). If you can find/afford an 80 gal, I think its a good choice for a family.

 

[cableman]

Ill have to call a ct lowes, if they have one ill be taking a boat ride.