My first project saw! (no pics yet) -- a free 034 AV

[MasterMech]

If you have the tools to split the case then it's an easy step to take. If you are relying on DIY methods to get the case halves apart, probably best to leave it alone unless you know there is a problem.

If you tear the saw downs to just the bottom end, you local dealer would prob only charge you a minimal fee to crack it open. You should be able to get it closed up again without too much trouble. Especially if you toss the rotating assembly in the freezer and heat the case halves to 200 before assembling everything.

 

[Jon1270]

Hm, sounds like it's more complicated than I imagined. I have some specialized tools that I bought from an old small engine guy who was retiring, but I don't know whether i have the right tools. I guess I have some reading to do.

 

[Jon1270]

...Heh, having read through (most of) that section in the manual, I can see why you wouldn't want to split the case if you can help it.

 

[clemsonfor]

Read master mech rebuild of his 460. There is a clutch and flywheel puller and something else I think that are soecielized to split it.

I too was not thinking g it was that complicated.

 

[DexterDay]

...Heh, having read through (most of) that section in the manual, I can see why you wouldn't want to split the case if you can help it.

They make seals for both applications. Whether you split the case or not.

The Hy Way kits come with the externally installed seals. If you can help it, I wouldn't split it. Bearings are likely fine. That's a very nice looking saw that has lower hrs on it. Many of 036-034 saws had a LOT of hours put on them before bearings are needed.

Replace the seals, piston, ring, jug, fuel line, fuel filter, and impulse. Be done and run it!!

 

[MasterMech]

They make seals for both applications. Whether you split the case or not.

The seals should be the same for the 034 wether or not you split it. I think you're thinking of the MS290/310/390 that has two sets of seals available for it like you describe.

 

[DexterDay]

I thought they all had 2 sets available?

Again, this isnt my Known fact. But guys on AS are much more knowledgeable than I and have said the same thing. But it wasnt just for homeowners saws? I thought.

Been wrong before. Gonna be wrong again. Foot goes into mouth. Its all good

 

[Jon1270]

Replace the seals, piston, ring, jug, fuel line, fuel filter, and impulse. Be done and run it!!

This sounds like a plan. Thanks for all the advice.

 

[MasterMech]

All split case saws that I know of have the seals installed from the outside, regardless of whether the crank/cylinder is in place or not.

Clamshell type saws have the seals sandwiched in-between the cylinder and the lower cover. They can be fit in tighter that way. However, installing them without removing the cylinder is near impossible, hence the slightly undersized "external" seals.

 

[DexterDay]

^^ Foot inserted into mouth ^^

Told you. Aint gonna be the last

Thats why we got fellers like you

 

[Jon1270]

The supplier Dexter recommended gave me a great deal on a HyWay kit, with the gaskets and seals, wrist pin bearing, Caber rings... whole 9 yards. While I wait for that to arrive, I'm curious how this saw's mechanical disaster could've been prevented. What recognizable symptoms result from a developing air leak? I've read enough about carb tuning to know that the motor "four-strokes a bit" when properly adjusted, and "screams" if it's set too lean, but I haven't listened closely to enough saws to be confident I'd know those sounds if I heard them. Are there other warning signs, or is preventative maintenance the key?

 

[Jon1270]

Ugh, I think this saw's problems may be bigger than I thought. That, or I'm not understanding what I'm looking at.

I decided to give my seal-puller a try, and remove the clutch-side crankshaft seal that seemed to be leaking so badly. I unscrewed the oil pump to get it out of the way, and soon had the seal removed very easily. If I understand the parts right, the seal is just a thin sheet metal part that's press-fit inside the bearing's outer race, with a rubber inner ring that seals against the crankshaft. That's correct, isn't it?

Anyhow, the problem is that (what I think is) the outer bearing race isn't tight in the crankcase. It's so loose and sloppy that it (the outer race) spins a little as I rotate the crankshaft. and there's enough play that I can wiggle the end of the crankshaft back and forth a bit. Does this sound familiar to any of you saw repair veterans? I don't see any cracks or other damage on the outside of the crankcase, but I have a sinking feeling about this..

 

[maple1]

Spun bearing? That's not good.

Sounds like it would need a new crankcase half - maybe better to do both sides.

I had a spun bearing on an electric motor once - the motor repair shop sent it out to a machine shop to have the case machined & shimmed. Maybe we got lucky but it's still going - not something I would do on a power saw though.

 

[DexterDay]

Might not be good

Maybe the chap who had the saw, knew more than he led on? Free always comes with a price.

You could split the cases and measure the I.D. where the bearing sits and call some bearing Manufacturers. Tell them the I.D. of the bearing, O.D size (after measurement), and width?

I replaced the front wheel bearings in my Quad. Called Honda and got the OEM prices. Them called a bearing place by me and they had an exact match for pretty cheap (really cheap!)

Hard telling until you look at it. If where the race sits is scoured and chewed up? You may need a case

 

[Jon1270]

Maybe the chap who had the saw, knew more than he led on?

I don't think so. He said he asked his repair shop how much it would cost to look into it, and they told him $50, "and then you get into real money." AFAIK, he never even had it diagnosed.

Hard telling until you look at it. If where the race sits is scoured and chewed up? You may need a case

That's pretty much what I figured. Given that splitting the case seems to require some rather expensive tools, I'm doubting that that's the smartest thing to do.

 

[Jon1270]

Further thought... splitting the case may actually be easy (or easier, anyhow) with the spun bearing. The bearing is just pressed into the case, right? No internal clips or anything? The case may still be toast, but perhaps it's worth looking into further.

 

[DexterDay]

Can the "Kit" be canceled? Or has it shipped?

I would wanna investigate before I had a stockpile of parts.....

 

[Jon1270]

Can the "Kit" be canceled? Or has it shipped?

I don't know for sure. Emailed him right away (2 hours ago) to ask him to hold off, and haven't heard back.

 

[DexterDay]

With that said. If you wanna get rid of it? I know a guy who is looking for several 034 parts. He has a good case and top end. He just needs everything else (coil, recoil cover, plastic, etc). I sold a guy an 034 about a month ago (fixer upper) and he is in need of some parts. Prob give a decent penny for it?

PM if you want his info or me to talk to him.

 

[Jon1270]

Thanks, Dexter.

In the meanwhile, I had fun watching this guy's confidence-inspiring explanation of case-splitting and reassembly:

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[DexterDay]

For used OEM cases... This is pretty cheap.

Also. Based on the paint wear on the front of saw (by buckin spike) and on the bottom. It wasn't a heavily used saw. I have had 6 total 036's now. And paint wear is a BIG Indicator on use. Someone took good care of that saw (until it detonated).

Search "Stihl 036 cases" and there is one for about $130 (IIRC?) That has fewer usable parts on it. $50 aint a bad price. Assuming the bottom end is good?

 

[MasterMech]

What recognizable symptoms result from a developing air leak?

Hard to start, runs good at WOT but won't idle consistently, delayed spin down after throttle release, constantly "chasing" carburetor adjustments....

Given that splitting the case seems to require some rather expensive tools, I'm doubting that that's the smartest thing to do.

Check with a local dealer, since the saw is torn down, he should be able to split the case for a minimum bench fee or 1/2 hour of labor, regardless, it should be pretty inexpensive to have it done. I'd do it for you for NC but shipping the saw both ways would cost the same or more.

 

[MasterMech]

Thanks, Dexter.

In the meanwhile, I had fun watching this guy's confidence-inspiring explanation of case-splitting and reassembly:

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I've seen that guy before too. He likes to turn press-fit parts into "slip-fit" parts and it's a wonder anything he works on will last.

 

[Jon1270]

I've seen that guy before too. He likes to turn press-fit parts into "slip-fit" parts and it's a wonder anything he works on will last.

He does that with the crankshaft in these videos, so that it requires less force to fit the bearing. I was surprised to see that, but it's not obvious to me why it would hurt anything.

 

[Jags]

Just throwing an old farmer method out for tightening up a bearing surface:

Center punch - lightly tapped all the way around the surface. Where the punch makes a mark, it raises the surface area around it. Start off light and if it doesn't do the trick, get more aggressive. What the heck, you got junk as it stands. Other than some bench time, you got nothing to loose.