mice in wood pile
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Hey Englander 30,
I have to agree with Toni. When you introduce Poison into the environment you have no control where it will end up. The natural predators such as owl, fox, raccoon, possum, snakes, bobcats, coyote and house cats and dogs become susceptible to to ingestion of a poisoned dead or dying mouse. Rat poison causes mass internal hemmoraging and is not a pleasant way for any creature to die. However mice infestation is definitely a safety and health risk and should be addressed responsibly. I suggest re locating your wood pile as far away from your house as possible to reduce the chance of them using your house as a heated shelter. Secondly I would make your property as attractive as possible to potential predators to keep the mice in check. In other words create a natural balance. The Owls seem to already be helping out with this solution. Nature works if we give it a chance.
Another alternative until this natural balance is achieved is the "humane or safe traps" that are on the market. These will hold several mice at a time and if you check them every morning and relocate the live mice to an area at least a 1/2 mile from your house they will set up new homes and leave yours alone. This is the solution I use for mice and rats and it has worked for me.
Good Luck
I have to agree with Toni. When you introduce Poison into the environment you have no control where it will end up. The natural predators such as owl, fox, raccoon, possum, snakes, bobcats, coyote and house cats and dogs become susceptible to to ingestion of a poisoned dead or dying mouse. Rat poison causes mass internal hemmoraging and is not a pleasant way for any creature to die. However mice infestation is definitely a safety and health risk and should be addressed responsibly. I suggest re locating your wood pile as far away from your house as possible to reduce the chance of them using your house as a heated shelter. Secondly I would make your property as attractive as possible to potential predators to keep the mice in check. In other words create a natural balance. The Owls seem to already be helping out with this solution. Nature works if we give it a chance.
Another alternative until this natural balance is achieved is the "humane or safe traps" that are on the market. These will hold several mice at a time and if you check them every morning and relocate the live mice to an area at least a 1/2 mile from your house they will set up new homes and leave yours alone. This is the solution I use for mice and rats and it has worked for me.
Good Luck
I would have to say definitely "DIDOO" on your comments Steve.
I had mice coming into my garage in the winter months. My garage is located in a wooded enviorment on the base of a mountainside so it is very rustic and full of all of natures wonderful creatures.
I couldn't bring myself to use snap traps and would never consider poision baits. We have three cats that keep the mice out of the living quarters but where the cats couldn't have access to such as the garage, attic, walls of my house the mice would take up residence.
Once in a great while one would sneak into the downstairs rec room where I had my wood stove and a small pile of wood on the hearth next to the wood burner so it could dry out and be conveinent to reload the woody. The mice would loose when the cats discovered them.
I couldn't keep up with the live box trap. As soon as I would sit down in the easy chair to watch the big screen, I would hear the trap go off in the garage. I would take Mickey out in the backyard and set him free. I would sit down again after the trap was reset with peanut butter and within minutes I bag another one and repeat the process.
I actually would sit and watch the mouse run across my rec room patio through the patio doors and shortly hear it scamper accross the suspended ceiling blocks and I would hear the trap go off.
Next day I checked the fieldstone foundation arroung my house and found a small hole under one of the stone so i filled it with mortar and so far that has been the end of the mice.
Bottom line; if you live in a wooded area you are invading their habitat and you will have to understand that and accept it. The same applies to snakes , owls , eagles, hawks,coyotees, deer, turkeys, etc. and even bears, one who has become our best neighbors.
Penut butter is the most desired mouse deiquecy and they can't resist it.
Just hope you don't have any "Ratatooees".
Good Luck,
John
I had mice coming into my garage in the winter months. My garage is located in a wooded enviorment on the base of a mountainside so it is very rustic and full of all of natures wonderful creatures.
I couldn't bring myself to use snap traps and would never consider poision baits. We have three cats that keep the mice out of the living quarters but where the cats couldn't have access to such as the garage, attic, walls of my house the mice would take up residence.
Once in a great while one would sneak into the downstairs rec room where I had my wood stove and a small pile of wood on the hearth next to the wood burner so it could dry out and be conveinent to reload the woody. The mice would loose when the cats discovered them.
I couldn't keep up with the live box trap. As soon as I would sit down in the easy chair to watch the big screen, I would hear the trap go off in the garage. I would take Mickey out in the backyard and set him free. I would sit down again after the trap was reset with peanut butter and within minutes I bag another one and repeat the process.
I actually would sit and watch the mouse run across my rec room patio through the patio doors and shortly hear it scamper accross the suspended ceiling blocks and I would hear the trap go off.
Next day I checked the fieldstone foundation arroung my house and found a small hole under one of the stone so i filled it with mortar and so far that has been the end of the mice.
Bottom line; if you live in a wooded area you are invading their habitat and you will have to understand that and accept it. The same applies to snakes , owls , eagles, hawks,coyotees, deer, turkeys, etc. and even bears, one who has become our best neighbors.
Penut butter is the most desired mouse deiquecy and they can't resist it.
Just hope you don't have any "Ratatooees".
Good Luck,
John
I would have to say BS on the mouse relocation program. You are just making it someone elses problem at that point. Mice are pests to and in a home. I too think they are cute and all but I do not want them in my house, crapping in my cookware, tunneling in my insulation and hoarding my cat's food.
My two cats do a rather amazing job at killing mice - and a few chipmunks which i would prefer they not do as they do not come in the house. It is just amazing how there are always more mice to take their place. The biggest problem, as mentioned, is that in making all of these glorious piles of wood we have also constructed some beautiful homes for these mice where they can multiply very quickly. The woodpile is quite a safe place for them as opposed to the options they have without them.
My two cats do a rather amazing job at killing mice - and a few chipmunks which i would prefer they not do as they do not come in the house. It is just amazing how there are always more mice to take their place. The biggest problem, as mentioned, is that in making all of these glorious piles of wood we have also constructed some beautiful homes for these mice where they can multiply very quickly. The woodpile is quite a safe place for them as opposed to the options they have without them.
How, if you are moving a batch of mice to a remote, wooded location, are you making it someone else's problem? What problem, too much food for all the denizen's of the forest that eat mice?
I agree that you don't want them in the house, and cats are way better than poisons. But the real issue seems to be with the house that needs to be seriously and permanently mouse-proofed. Stop them from getting in the house in the first place and mice in the woodpile will be a non-issue.
I agree that you don't want them in the house, and cats are way better than poisons. But the real issue seems to be with the house that needs to be seriously and permanently mouse-proofed. Stop them from getting in the house in the first place and mice in the woodpile will be a non-issue.
I had a mouse nest underneath the hood of a car that I use regularly.
I had no damage, except for some insulation damage, but I've heard they can destroy a car's wiring which can cost thousands.
I had no damage, except for some insulation damage, but I've heard they can destroy a car's wiring which can cost thousands.
There is no way possible to eradicate mice from your property, but there are many safe ways to control them using baits and traps. There are tamper proof bait boxes which exclude other non target species. I would like to dispel the myths that there is secondary poisoning with rodenticides. So you do not have to worry about cats, eagles, owls, fox, etc. Snap traps are very effective and can be concealed in the wood pile. There are many mice per acre, the point being if they can get into your house they will. Exclusion is more important than trying to control them on the outside. Your best attempts will only harvest some and they will spread right back into your wood pile for eternity.
If you are worried about poisoning pets or other non target species. Try the following trap. This trap will reset itself and is easily made inexpensively. We set one at my buddy's camp and apon returning 2 months later found we had caught over 30 mice.
You will need:
1 - 5 gal. bucket
1 - wire coat hanger
1 - pop or beer can
1 - yard stick or other piece of wood
peanut butter
Cut a straight length from the coat hanger, 4 inches longer than the diameter of the bucket.
Drill 2 holes opposite to each other, in the bucket just below the edge so that the wire can be inserted and will be across the middle of the bucket.
Drill 2 holes in the empty can one in the top and one in the bottom.
Position the can on the wire, directly over the middle of the bucket.
You may want to put a small piece of tape on either end of the wire to keep the can from sliding on the wire, it must spin easily though.
Fill the bucket about half full of water and add if necessary some non toxic antifreeze.
Put a small strip of peanut butter around the middle of the can
Now lean the yard stick up to the rim of the bucket
The mice will walk up the yard stick jump to the can which will spin on the wire dumping them into the water and resetting itself.
Hope that helps
You will need:
1 - 5 gal. bucket
1 - wire coat hanger
1 - pop or beer can
1 - yard stick or other piece of wood
peanut butter
Cut a straight length from the coat hanger, 4 inches longer than the diameter of the bucket.
Drill 2 holes opposite to each other, in the bucket just below the edge so that the wire can be inserted and will be across the middle of the bucket.
Drill 2 holes in the empty can one in the top and one in the bottom.
Position the can on the wire, directly over the middle of the bucket.
You may want to put a small piece of tape on either end of the wire to keep the can from sliding on the wire, it must spin easily though.
Fill the bucket about half full of water and add if necessary some non toxic antifreeze.
Put a small strip of peanut butter around the middle of the can
Now lean the yard stick up to the rim of the bucket
The mice will walk up the yard stick jump to the can which will spin on the wire dumping them into the water and resetting itself.
Hope that helps
CTwoodnpelletburner said:
I agree with controling these rodents and keeping them out of your home and especially your living areas,(cats are a great help in this case), but if you think you are going to eliminated the rodent population by use of snap traps or poision, boy, are you headed down the wrong track. It will never happen!
The most effective method is to keep them out of the houese, period.
You must find the points of entry and block them.
John
velvetfoot said:
Mothballs, fabric softner sheets, Irish Spring Soap, put in the trunk, under the dash, under the seats, foot wells in the interrior will help keep them out of autos.
John
My wood is piled on my screen patio outside. Yes, there are mice in it. Doesnt really bother me though.
Fire Bug,
By BS I suppose you mean Best Solution. The relocation program really works. I did of course mean that you should relocate the mice to an uninhabited location so they don't become a problem for someone else after you catch them in the Safe Trap. Anytime you can solve a CRITTER problem without the taking of life is always the best solution even if it involves a little inconvenience for us humans. As a Volunteer Animal Cruelty Investigator I can tell you there is enough cruelty and neglect in the world towards animals and for that matter people. If there it is a humane solution to a problem that involves helping nature solve the problem we should take it. Remember if you use this solution to your mice problem always relocate the mice at least a 1/2 mile from your house or they may find their way home.
I wholeheartedly agree with the approach to keeping rodents out of the house by finding the points of entry and blocking them. I have done this to my house not to mention the 24 cats that own me are always on patrol. No safe zone for mice in my house. I have also made my property attractive to Black and Corn Snakes and currently there are two 4 foot Black Snakes wintering in my well house. My well house is about 25 feet from my wood shed and my wood shed is on the far end of my property several hundred feet from my house. As I use my firewood during the winter I always find several shedded snake skins. Evidence that they are hard on the job of mice control during the summer. Natures exterminators and they didn't even send me a bill.
By BS I suppose you mean Best Solution. The relocation program really works. I did of course mean that you should relocate the mice to an uninhabited location so they don't become a problem for someone else after you catch them in the Safe Trap. Anytime you can solve a CRITTER problem without the taking of life is always the best solution even if it involves a little inconvenience for us humans. As a Volunteer Animal Cruelty Investigator I can tell you there is enough cruelty and neglect in the world towards animals and for that matter people. If there it is a humane solution to a problem that involves helping nature solve the problem we should take it. Remember if you use this solution to your mice problem always relocate the mice at least a 1/2 mile from your house or they may find their way home.
I wholeheartedly agree with the approach to keeping rodents out of the house by finding the points of entry and blocking them. I have done this to my house not to mention the 24 cats that own me are always on patrol. No safe zone for mice in my house. I have also made my property attractive to Black and Corn Snakes and currently there are two 4 foot Black Snakes wintering in my well house. My well house is about 25 feet from my wood shed and my wood shed is on the far end of my property several hundred feet from my house. As I use my firewood during the winter I always find several shedded snake skins. Evidence that they are hard on the job of mice control during the summer. Natures exterminators and they didn't even send me a bill.
Hi Steve,
I would suggest you go back and check my posts to see who mentioned BS, it was a quote I used from CTwoodpeletburner. BS was not used by me but I quoted what CEwoodpeletburners response was.
I would have to say he didn't use the BS for the phrase Best Solution but rather Bull Sh-t, at least that is how I took it, maybee I am wrong in my interpretation.
I agree killing of mice, snakes, skunks, or any other type of wild life is truely assanine. Black Snakes are a farmers best friend.
There is a purpose for each and eveyone of these creatures and they make the wildlife existance complete a full circle. One depends on another. Eliminate one from the circle and soon another will drop out or become extinct.
We are the intruders in thier world and not the other way around.
I am sure this response will raise and eyebrow or two but who gives a d-mm!
John
I would suggest you go back and check my posts to see who mentioned BS, it was a quote I used from CTwoodpeletburner. BS was not used by me but I quoted what CEwoodpeletburners response was.
I would have to say he didn't use the BS for the phrase Best Solution but rather Bull Sh-t, at least that is how I took it, maybee I am wrong in my interpretation.
I agree killing of mice, snakes, skunks, or any other type of wild life is truely assanine. Black Snakes are a farmers best friend.
There is a purpose for each and eveyone of these creatures and they make the wildlife existance complete a full circle. One depends on another. Eliminate one from the circle and soon another will drop out or become extinct.
We are the intruders in thier world and not the other way around.
I am sure this response will raise and eyebrow or two but who gives a d-mm!
John
Fire Bug (John),
I stand corrected. After closer examination I see it was CTwoodnpelletburner who used the BS (Best Solution) reference. I should have know you were a fellow animal lover with your Avatar of TIGGER.
I stand corrected. After closer examination I see it was CTwoodnpelletburner who used the BS (Best Solution) reference. I should have know you were a fellow animal lover with your Avatar of TIGGER.
Regarding mouse poison killing birds and cats and so on, only the most minimal googling was needed to find that it is truly a problem. The first place I looked told me this among other things:
"All rodenticides carry a risk of secondary poisoning, but those with the active ingredient brodifacoum or difethialone pose the greatest risk to raptors. Unfortunately, these ingredients are contained in some of the most popular brands [...]
The EPA recently compiled an exhaustive report titled "Potential Risks of Nine Rodenticides to Birds and Nontarget Mammals: a Comparative Approach". The conclusions of the report are clear: the active ingredients in the most commonly used rodenticides all can and do kill non-target animals from secondary poisoning."
I have learned that trying to poison any one thing in the environment will often wind up poisoning something else. Why worry about mice living outside anyway? They aren't going to eat much of your wood. They have helped us dry our wood by eating the bark off some wood in our pile in the snowiest parts of winter. Seal up your house and don't worry about the ones in the yard. We have a fox in our yard sometimes, I am sure it eats up as many mice as it can find. If you can move your woodpile further from your house that would help keep the inhabitants of the pile out of the house. I would also worry about bugs more, you are unlikely to carry a mouse in your wood into the house accidentally.
"All rodenticides carry a risk of secondary poisoning, but those with the active ingredient brodifacoum or difethialone pose the greatest risk to raptors. Unfortunately, these ingredients are contained in some of the most popular brands [...]
The EPA recently compiled an exhaustive report titled "Potential Risks of Nine Rodenticides to Birds and Nontarget Mammals: a Comparative Approach". The conclusions of the report are clear: the active ingredients in the most commonly used rodenticides all can and do kill non-target animals from secondary poisoning."
I have learned that trying to poison any one thing in the environment will often wind up poisoning something else. Why worry about mice living outside anyway? They aren't going to eat much of your wood. They have helped us dry our wood by eating the bark off some wood in our pile in the snowiest parts of winter. Seal up your house and don't worry about the ones in the yard. We have a fox in our yard sometimes, I am sure it eats up as many mice as it can find. If you can move your woodpile further from your house that would help keep the inhabitants of the pile out of the house. I would also worry about bugs more, you are unlikely to carry a mouse in your wood into the house accidentally.
Steve,
Not a problem at all
You hit the nail on the head. My wife and myself speak up for those creatures that can't, and we always will.
Society has placed the wrong name on these creatures as "annimals", it seems to me that is the human beings that are causing all the worlds poblems.
All creatures have a purpose and were put here to carry that purpose out.
Nice to talk to another creature lover.
Thanks,
John
Not a problem at all
You hit the nail on the head. My wife and myself speak up for those creatures that can't, and we always will.
Society has placed the wrong name on these creatures as "annimals", it seems to me that is the human beings that are causing all the worlds poblems.
All creatures have a purpose and were put here to carry that purpose out.
Nice to talk to another creature lover.
Thanks,
John
Hey Marcia,
Thank you for doing the research on the comment made about secondary poisoning being a myth. I had meant to do the research because I knew this information was in error. I have seen it first hand when helping at the local Emergency Vet Clinic. The cat in question died then had a necropsy and was determined to have died by ingesting a mouse that had ingested rat poison. Pretty conclusive. We learn something new every day. Rat poison is a very bad thing even when used as intended there is potential collateral damage and death.
Thank you for doing the research on the comment made about secondary poisoning being a myth. I had meant to do the research because I knew this information was in error. I have seen it first hand when helping at the local Emergency Vet Clinic. The cat in question died then had a necropsy and was determined to have died by ingesting a mouse that had ingested rat poison. Pretty conclusive. We learn something new every day. Rat poison is a very bad thing even when used as intended there is potential collateral damage and death.
First off I would like to say that I live in the country and would never do anything to harm our environment or our animals. Second I hope we can have a healthy discussion and share information with each other and learn from each other as well.
I have been involved in Integrated Pest Management for 38 years and never came across secondary poisoning, but it can happen. So from my professional opinion I can say it’s extremely rare. Let’s analyze the statement above a cat ate one mouse that had ingested a rodenticide and died. A cat could consume three mice that had consumed and died from most commonly used second generation rodenticides and the chance of dying is almost zero.
An understanding how the rodenticides work is in order. Using Brodifacoum as an example a mouse would eat four grams every day for several days. It can take anywhere from 3 to 14 days to die. By the time the rodent dies it may have very little rodenticide in its system, but may contain some in the liver, and possible some pellets in the mouth. A 4.4 pound cat would need to eat 35.3 grams of the rodent bait to die. So the number of mice would be maybe 6 to 8 mice. Most rodenticides cause the animal to hem ridge and may not eat for a few days before dying. So it could take even more than 8 mice. Anticoagulants can be easily reversed by administering vitamin K1. Remember the active ingredient in some rodenticides is .005%, which is a very small amount of active ingredient. Toxicity levels are milligrams per kilograms of body weight, so an animal 300 times the weight of a mouse, would normally have to eat 300 times the lethal dose.
Rodents cannot regurgitate so once a rodenticide is ingested it stays down. On the other hand dogs and cats can eliminate at will, so can raccoons, fox, etc. So this is another safety factor. Many rodenticides contain bitrex which is very bitter and rodents have little taste but other animals and children do not like. Also anticoagulants are used for making blood thinners for human consumption, so there has to be safe dosages, with little to no side effects.
Each rodenticide has different levels of safety that a professional applying them would consider. Brodifacoum in my opinion would be a poor choice on a farm. Most poisonings are non-target animals eating the bait directly. So knowing specific hazards of a rodenticide is important. Placing the baits in tamper proof bait stations excludes non target animals. Having rodents outside is not a problem in my opinion. But having them nest in your kitchen cabinets is another story. I highly recommend mouse traps then secondary poisoning isn’t an issue.
I have been involved in Integrated Pest Management for 38 years and never came across secondary poisoning, but it can happen. So from my professional opinion I can say it’s extremely rare. Let’s analyze the statement above a cat ate one mouse that had ingested a rodenticide and died. A cat could consume three mice that had consumed and died from most commonly used second generation rodenticides and the chance of dying is almost zero.
An understanding how the rodenticides work is in order. Using Brodifacoum as an example a mouse would eat four grams every day for several days. It can take anywhere from 3 to 14 days to die. By the time the rodent dies it may have very little rodenticide in its system, but may contain some in the liver, and possible some pellets in the mouth. A 4.4 pound cat would need to eat 35.3 grams of the rodent bait to die. So the number of mice would be maybe 6 to 8 mice. Most rodenticides cause the animal to hem ridge and may not eat for a few days before dying. So it could take even more than 8 mice. Anticoagulants can be easily reversed by administering vitamin K1. Remember the active ingredient in some rodenticides is .005%, which is a very small amount of active ingredient. Toxicity levels are milligrams per kilograms of body weight, so an animal 300 times the weight of a mouse, would normally have to eat 300 times the lethal dose.
Rodents cannot regurgitate so once a rodenticide is ingested it stays down. On the other hand dogs and cats can eliminate at will, so can raccoons, fox, etc. So this is another safety factor. Many rodenticides contain bitrex which is very bitter and rodents have little taste but other animals and children do not like. Also anticoagulants are used for making blood thinners for human consumption, so there has to be safe dosages, with little to no side effects.
Each rodenticide has different levels of safety that a professional applying them would consider. Brodifacoum in my opinion would be a poor choice on a farm. Most poisonings are non-target animals eating the bait directly. So knowing specific hazards of a rodenticide is important. Placing the baits in tamper proof bait stations excludes non target animals. Having rodents outside is not a problem in my opinion. But having them nest in your kitchen cabinets is another story. I highly recommend mouse traps then secondary poisoning isn’t an issue.
SO, I evicted some whiskery tenants last night. They didn't put up much of a fuss. I brushed off the fuzzies of the mouse house, loaded the wood in the bag and stacked the wood on the porch.
Long story short....when you bring wood in to dry next to the stove....DO NOT include a piece of wood that was the footings for a mouse house. WOW does that stink when it gets hot.
Long story short....when you bring wood in to dry next to the stove....DO NOT include a piece of wood that was the footings for a mouse house. WOW does that stink when it gets hot.
An associate did not like killing mice so he live trapped them and let them go outside. He marked them with a little paint. He was catching the same mice. He kept letting them go farther and farther from his house. He found if he relocated them about a mile or more, they did not come back.
I believe 1 mile is the minimum standard for trap and release if you don't want to see the same mice return.
To help with mouse proofing, check for holes around the foundation and fill them with steel wool. Mice have a tough time digging through that. You've got to get ALL the holes the size of your thumb nail or bigger. You'd be suprised where they can fit.
To help with mouse proofing, check for holes around the foundation and fill them with steel wool. Mice have a tough time digging through that. You've got to get ALL the holes the size of your thumb nail or bigger. You'd be suprised where they can fit.
Adult mice can fit into a hole the diameter of a dime. Steel wool is good for temporary use, but it rusts, so copper wool is better.
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