Marking wood for where to cut

[Highbeam]

This has been a good thread. I'll agree with @Ashful about a large displacement, heavy, bucking saw with a short bar or just using a small part of a large bar makes the whole cutting part of this chore very fast. I moved up from a 290 stihl to a 64cc pro saw and cutting is the shortest and most fun part of the whole firewood processing job!

That feeling of someone shooting your thigh with a garden hose but really it's just the fountain of chips.

 

[TreePointer]

This has been a good thread. I'll agree with @Ashful about a large displacement, heavy, bucking saw with a short bar or just using a small part of a large bar makes the whole cutting part of this chore very fast. I moved up from a 290 stihl to a 64cc pro saw and cutting is the shortest and most fun part of the whole firewood processing job!

That feeling of someone shooting your thigh with a garden hose but really it's just the fountain of chips.

I think there are a lot Stihl 290 graduates here, myself included.

And I know I had a lot of fun when I find that wood chips made it into my pockets and somehow even into my wallet.

 

[Ashful]

I’m just about ready to be done with my 63cc pro saw. It is underpowered for the majority of what I do, so I’ve gotten to the point where I really just use the 85cc saw for pretty much all my cutting.

I’m at the point where I’m starting to question why I even own anything under 75cc, and starting to think my ideal setup would be a top handle, an MS 661 for 90% of my bucking, and an MS 44x for the small stuff.

 

[Sawset]

This is precisely my method, except I use a bright orange painted stick in place of the magnetic measuring stick. Mark with the little 435T top handle saw, buck with the 85cc Stihl 064.

If you want to talk about improving thruput, we should be talking more about your cutting hardware, than marking. Big horsepower behind a small bar allows one to take the depth gauges down below stock height, and vastly improve cutting speed. The 85cc Stihl 064 I’m running today runs circles around the 50 - 60 cc saws most firewood cutters use today, with any length of bar, by more than enough margin to make up for any differences in the time we take to mark out a log.

It seems the most popular size saw for the loggers and fellers types are in the 75-85cc range. Most firewood cutters, 50cc range. Verging from one to the other would warrant the equipment outlay. Thinking most firewood guys aren't interested in going to that level. I can see the advantage of not sitting there waiting for a 50cc to get its job done. On the other hand, I'm more than willing to be patient considering the cost and upkeep to upgrade and maintain something larger. It would be nice to have a big honkin saw, enjoy the feeling, then for all the time saved it would sit for the other 11-1/2mo of the year.

 

[Woody Stover]

It would be nice to have a big honkin saw, enjoy the feeling, then for all the time saved it would sit for the other 11-1/2mo of the year.

If you cut your own trees, picking your way through the brush, smaller is better. I have an MS460 for falling big ones, but I trim and buck smaller limbs with a MS170, then at 10" or so I grab the 261. Might be a little slower my way but it's a lot easier than horsing a big saw when you don't need to. I have even been experimenting with a semi-chisel chain on the 261..they seem to stay sharp longer. Yeah, big saws and chisel chain eat through the rounds quickly but those long chains take a while to sharpen, negating any time savings for me. Anyhow, more of my time is spent hauling, splitting and stacking, not to mention elevating pallets on concrete blocks and covering stacks. I need a couple of permanent roofs to stack under, if I can come up with a somewhat flat area that isn't too far from the house..

 

[SpaceBus]

If you cut your own trees, picking your way through the brush, smaller is better. I have an MS460 for falling big ones, but I trim and buck smaller limbs with a MS170, then at 10" or so I grab the 261. Might be a little slower my way but it's a lot easier than horsing a big saw when you don't need to. I have even been experimenting with a semi-chisel chain on the 261..they seem to stay sharp longer. Yeah, big saws and chisel chain eat through the rounds quickly but those long chains take a while to sharpen, negating any time savings for me. Anyhow, more of my time is spent hauling, splitting and stacking, not to mention elevating pallets on concrete blocks and covering stacks. I need a couple of permanent roofs to stack under, if I can come up with a somewhat flat area that isn't too far from the house..

This is where I'm at. 60+cc saws are too big for more confined areas. I do most of my cutting in the woods and my Husky 460 is a boat anchor out there in the brush. I wish the used 346 I snagged didn't die, but I'm going to give it a second life.

 

[Ashful]

I guess our woods aren’t as “bushy”. Never had an issue with little saws holding any advantage over big saws, here. Other than price tag, that is.

 

[SpaceBus]

I guess our woods aren’t as “bushy”. Never had an issue with little saws holding any advantage over big saws, here. Other than price tag, that is.

My woods are thick with saplings and new growth. The property we owned was logged in the 70's. Old growth or even just a mature forest would be easier to deal with.

 

[Sawset]

Someone said once:
"every saw is a favorite saw at some point"
I'm on my third. Its, of course, now my favorite saw. Of course it is. Who knows, that could change. I distinctly remember the one my dad had from the 50s. Heavy, thick and oily chain, lots of oil, cast metal everything. It was his favorite.
Anyway - I mark my cuts with the second nut on the chain cover with an 18" bar, gives me around 20-21". The stove handles 23", so I'm usually good to go. Split up the 6 cord or so this spring, with 4pc that will need a quick cut to length redo. I'm not too particular about it. It seems there are so many knots and curves and ybranched pcs that it's tough to be overly accurate.

 

[Ashful]

Someone said once:
"every saw is a favorite saw at some point"
I'm on my third. Its, of course, now my favorite saw. Of course it is.

Maybe that’s because most folks trade up, not down. I’ve owned eight or ten saws, and my favorite is still the old 064, which was purchased before half the others. The reason is simple, it is the most powerful saw in the fleet, at only a scant pound or two over the mid-size (63cc) saw.

 

[Woody Stover]

I guess our woods aren’t as “bushy”. Never had an issue with little saws holding any advantage over big saws, here. Other than price tag, that is.

You just cut up log loads in your yard, right?
We aren't buying saws according to how much they cost, but how well they work in our cutting situations.
But I agree, a little top-handle is what I'm missing. That would make limbing, and bucking 4" branches, a breeze...one free hand to hold 'em in place.

 

[Ashful]

You just cut up log loads in your yard, right?
We aren't buying saws according to how much they cost, but how well they work in our cutting situations.
But I agree, a little top-handle is what I'm missing. That would make limbing, and bucking 4" branches, a breeze...one free hand to hold 'em in place.

Nope, I harvest all of my own, from two wooded properties. I fell, limb, and buck to 15 foot lengths, skid them out of the woods behind a tractor, and then drag them onto a tandem axle trailer with a winch. At home I drag the logs off the trailer, buck to 18 inch lengths, split, and stack.

One reason I might not mind the weight of the larger saw as much as others is that I’m never carrying it into the woods very far. I load everything into the loader bucket on the tractor, and park that near where I’m working.

 

[Woody Stover]

I harvest all of my own, from two wooded properties. I fell, limb, and buck to 15 foot lengths, skid them out of the woods behind a tractor

OK, I just remember a pic of logs that you were processing in the stacking area. About the same thing as a log load though..you are doing the bulk of the bucking in a clear area, and probably positioning the logs where they are easy to cut holding a big saw in a comfortable position.
I have a quad and small trailer. I buck almost everything to length, right where the tree falls. To make those cuts, I have to dodge a lot of saplings, make some cuts from underneath the log, hold the saw in awkward positions and so on. Trying to maneuver a big saw in those conditions is a lot of work, so I'm using the MS 261 with 20" bar whenever I can, which is most of the time. I'm seldom dropping a dead one or bucking one that has already fallen, that is over 2' in diameter.

 

[Highbeam]

OK, I just remember a pic of logs that you were processing in the stacking area. About the same thing as a log load though..you are doing the bulk of the bucking in a clear area, and probably positioning the logs where they are easy to cut holding a big saw in a comfortable position.
I have a quad and small trailer. I buck almost everything to length, right where the tree falls. To make those cuts, I have to dodge a lot of saplings, make some cuts from underneath the log, hold the saw in awkward positions and so on. Trying to maneuver a big saw in those conditions is a lot of work, so I'm using the MS 261 with 20" bar whenever I can, which is most of the time. I'm seldom dropping a dead one or bucking one that has already fallen, that is over 2' in diameter.

And I recall @Ashful is cutting some larger diameter logs which certainly makes a difference. There's a reason that Stihl makes the medium sized pro 260. It's a great saw for that small wood application. I have done some limbing work in the brush with my dolmar 64 and it is awkward, heavy, and more dangerous than the more appropriate little saw would be. The big saw really is meant for falling and bucking in my experience.

Something occurred to me from a post above. If I make a bucking length mistake on a 36" log I have maybe 30 splits that are screwed up. Several days of heating fuel are on the line. If you are cutting 6" pecker poles then a screwed up cut is only a couple of splits.

 

[Ashful]

Yep, I am doing most of the bucking right next to the splitter, and plenty of room to cut. Also, the majority of my wood has been coming from large trees (40” diameter stuff) the last few years. I run a 28” bar on the 85cc saw 99% of the time, and I’m still having to cut from both sides to get thru.

The 63 cc saw has a 20” bar, and would struggle any time I was cutting something over 18” diameter, where the nose ends up in the cut. Since I had two 20” bars and at least ten loops of 20” chain, I didn’t want to re-tool to 18”, so I just put some big felling dogs on that saw to shorten the exposed bar length by an inch. The saw does much better with the effective 19” of bar, but still nowhere near as fast as the 85cc saw with a 28” bar.

I don’t get to cut a whole lot of smaller stuff, since I leave anything more manageable for the property owner of the place where I cut. Every cut really counts when you’re working on anything big, as highbeam already noted. I have had single rounds yield a quarter of a cord, back when I was cutting 20” lengths.

 

[Highbeam]

Something occurred to me from a post above. If I make a bucking length mistake on a 36" log I have maybe 30 splits that are screwed up. Several days of heating fuel are on the line. If you are cutting 6" pecker poles then a screwed up cut is only a couple of splits.

I was off by a lot. Had to do the math. If I'm getting 4"x4" splits then I get 64 of those per 36" diameter round. That's a weeks worth of heating for each round! Take the time to measure carefully.

 

[SpaceBus]

You guys bring up some fair points. My property has few trees that would require a larger saw. We have a small number of trees that will actually require me to break out the 395, but everything else is 50cc territory.

 

[Bushels20]

This is where I am. I run an MS 261c. Gets the job done. I have a friend who owns a tree company and my deliveries are free, right beside the stacks.

I would love to have a large saw, but in reality, it would be cool to say I have one and it would get occasional use and collect dust.

My next purchase will probably be a Farm Boss with a 20” bar; once the 261 craps out.

 

[Ashful]

I would love to have a large saw, but in reality, it would be cool to say I have one and it would get occasional use and collect dust.

No, it's not about bragging rights, at least not for everyone.

If you allow yourself to enjoy it, life is full of stuff that you never really "needed", but then eventually wonder how you lived without it all these years. I remember feeling that way about smart phones, heated seats, and even the silly little back-up cameras in all of my newer vehicles. I have an elderly uncle who still feels that way about indoor plumbing and central heating.

Big saws can be one of those things, especially for horsepower junkies. Once you allow yourself the pleasure of running one, you may have trouble turning back.

BTW... back-up cameras may be the greatest invention since the wheel itself, for those of us who frequently pull trailers!

 

[TreePointer]

Most folks I know don't "need" a large displacement saw, but those who encounter big wood actually can increase safety with a big saw that can pull a long chain.

1. Small saws require you to work from both sides to drop a large tree or buck a big log, but sometimes one side presents too many hazards and you must cut from only the other side. Big saws with long bars can solve many issues of this type

2. Small saws require more skill and knowledge to drop large trees (Bore cuts, fan cuts, other techniques)

3. The general rule is that you don't want to linger under the canopy or close to a trunk longer than necessary, and dropping a large tree takes longer with a small saw. (This is also a reason why you want to cut with a sharp chain.)

* * * * *
In addition, making stumps can be difficult with lower displacement saws. The more torque the better!

In another scenario, say you have an 18-20" cherry or oak trunk to buck. Many smaller saws (even some 60cc saws in my experience) will bog when close to burying the bar, so you have to ease up/feather it. When I have a big job to do with larger wood like this, I only have so much time to get it done, and a big saw is just the ticket.

 

[Ashful]

Did some cutting and splitting today, 92F heat index, but I was able to mostly stay in the shade. Took a moment to demonstrate why the 63cc saw just doesn’t keep up with the 85cc saw. This log is red oak, and that’s a 20 inch bar.

 

[johneh]

Nice Wood !!
I do not need a saw that big
on my property there are no trees
That big or even close . It was clear cut in 1860
so I am not in need of anything over a 20 in 50 cc saw
It will do every thing I need it to do
But wow I see why you do

 

[SpaceBus]

Did some cutting and splitting today, 92F heat index, but I was able to mostly stay in the shade. Took a moment to demonstrate why the 63cc saw just doesn’t keep up with the 85cc saw. This log is red oak, and that’s a 20 inch bar.

View attachment 245472

If I had stuff like that to cut frequently then a 75-85cc saw would have a place I my collection. As it is the rare large logs will be handled by my 395xp.

 

[Ashful]

If I had stuff like that to cut frequently then a 75-85cc saw would have a place I my collection. As it is the rare large logs will be handled by my 395xp.

Awww... chit, guys. That log is only 30" diameter! There are some years where it feels like I never get anything under 40" diameter.

Here's a white oak that was 60" diameter at felling height, but unfortunately hollow down there. The largest rounds (like the one on the left) from this tree were 49" diameter, that's a 36" bar on the Stihl 064, for reference:



Here's my cutting buddy dragging one of my catches out of the woods. I normally cut to 15' foot lengths (largest multiple of 18" that will fit on my 16' trailer with tailgate closed), but I had to cut this one to 7.5 feet to get it down to skidding weight.



Here's the lower half of that one:



This is back before I had the winch on the trailer, and I used to have to buck everything into rounds to load on the trailer by hand. Sometimes a round would be so heavy (> 1000 lb.) that I'd have to noodle the rounds into slabs it just to get them onto the trailer. Knowing I used to cut to 20" lengths, I'm guessing this round is close to 40" diameter:



This stump wasn't standing up when I cut it, the tree had been up-rooted. I don't recall the diameter, but it's big enough to make that big 85cc saw with 28" bar sitting atop it look like a 50cc toy.



Here's the small stuff I left behind for the property owner one day, after loading my trailer. I cut and he skids, I take the big and leave the small. So, this was about half of what I had cut on that day, which is why having a big fast saw matters!



Can't find my favorite photo, one of my first big and challenging tree falls, will post it if I can find it. It's the reason I went out and bought a 36" bar, immediately after that project.

 

[mar13]

Awww... chit, guys. That log is only 30" diameter! There are some years where it feels like I never get anything under 40" diameter.

Here's a white oak that was 60" diameter at felling height, but unfortunately hollow down there. The largest rounds (like the one on the left) from this tree were 49" diameter, that's a 36" bar on the Stihl 064, for reference:

View attachment 245478

Here's my cutting buddy dragging one of my catches out of the woods. I normally cut to 15' foot lengths (largest multiple of 18" that will fit on my 16' trailer with tailgate closed), but I had to cut this one to 7.5 feet to get it down to skidding weight.

View attachment 245480

Here's the lower half of that one:

View attachment 245481

This is back before I had the winch on the trailer, and I used to have to buck everything into rounds to load on the trailer by hand. Sometimes a round would be so heavy (> 1000 lb.) that I'd have to noodle the rounds into slabs it just to get them onto the trailer. Knowing I used to cut to 20" lengths, I'm guessing this round is close to 40" diameter:

View attachment 245479

This stump wasn't standing up when I cut it, the tree had been up-rooted. I don't recall the diameter, but it's big enough to make that big 85cc saw with 28" bar sitting atop it look like a 50cc toy.

View attachment 245482

Here's the small stuff I left behind for the property owner one day, after loading my trailer. I cut and he skids, I take the big and leave the small. So, this was about half of what I had cut on that day, which is why having a big fast saw matters!

View attachment 245483

Can't find my favorite photo, one of my first big and challenging tree falls, will post it if I can find it. It's the reason I went out and bought a 36" bar, immediately after that project.

How old are these larger oaks? Rare or common out in your parts?