Bring as much wood as you can next to the stove to dry out (from between snow and such)....get the stove as hot as you can, and if starting a stove use the firebricks to get it hot enough....once you get the inside wood dry enough, load the fire and replenish the wood...wood inside next to the fire dries out fast, and really helps getting the temps up...
Man...This first year is getting really discouraging...Thinking of packing it in.
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Ducati996 said:
Do be careful in not getting the wood too close to the stove. Wet wood is better than a charred home.
BrowningBAR said:
Sometimes assumption that the person taking the advice is able to tie their shoes and pull up their pants in the morning, so placing wood
on near or on the side of the stove (similar to whats pictured in better homes & garden and the like), is a simple task that can be handled without risk...
I've been frustrated too, but think I'm about to arrive. It's 73 degrees in my house but my thermostat is set at 67. (Ok, maybe that's not so impressive when it's just 26 degrees out.)
I'm in my third week (ever) of burning a stove. Dry wood, dry wood dry wood. Ok Ok. I think I've finally figured it out. It's dry wood that you need. That's weird.
I've read it a thousand times, but finally understand after doing it for the past two days. If the insert face temp is under 400, I just crack the door and open the damper/bypass. Let it rip for at least 5 minutes. I try to close the doors and see how it performs. If it dies down, open it back up. Charred glass is enough of a reason for me to not worry about getting heat out of anything that will char the glass. I will get some heat out of the batch when it eventually dries. If the batch of wood is just not moving... I get some fallen sticks, and any wood scraps I can find to get the temps up. I've had clean glass for two striaght days. I think I've got this stuff figured out... FINALLY. It's a real PITA with wet wood though.
I got through 1/3 of my cord delivery, and a new cord is due to arrive tomorrow. I told the guy that I'm operating an insert and using it for half of all my heating. He immediately understood, and started asking what size splits I want, and told me he'd give me 2/3 a cord of really dry stuff. We will see. I too hope life will be easier, but even if not, I think I've figured out what it takes to run my insert. HOT temps. The manual on mine says 400-800 is ideal face temperature... and that's measuring at a cold spot. My glass is usually at least 100 - 150 hotter than the measuring spot. Apparently it's not a bad idea to get my glass doors near 1000? I've had them over 700 several times, and that's when the stove rally cleans itself up. It all started making sense as soon as I got a Ryobi IR laser temp gun for $30... and two other magnetic ones too. It's not just the flame, or just the temp, or just the sizzling wood. It's all of it. If anything is wrong, I'm typically opening up the doors for more air. Saying my prayers for dry wood to arrive tomorrow. Then I'll shut down for my chimney sweep when it will be nearly 40 degrees. Dry wood just in time to shut down for a while. LOL.
I'm persistent and stubborn, but I assume everyone figures it out in time. If you went to the trouble to get a stove, you will figure out how to run it... right?
EDIT:
Wood I got today was almost as wet as the first. Second batch I threw on has a sizzler, and I'm struggling to get it going again. It probably doesn't help much that it's 35 and sunny right now. Ughhh. Well, Thursday it will be almost 40, and stop dropping below freezing for a while. That will be clean out time.
I'm in my third week (ever) of burning a stove. Dry wood, dry wood dry wood. Ok Ok. I think I've finally figured it out. It's dry wood that you need. That's weird.
I've read it a thousand times, but finally understand after doing it for the past two days. If the insert face temp is under 400, I just crack the door and open the damper/bypass. Let it rip for at least 5 minutes. I try to close the doors and see how it performs. If it dies down, open it back up. Charred glass is enough of a reason for me to not worry about getting heat out of anything that will char the glass. I will get some heat out of the batch when it eventually dries. If the batch of wood is just not moving... I get some fallen sticks, and any wood scraps I can find to get the temps up. I've had clean glass for two striaght days. I think I've got this stuff figured out... FINALLY. It's a real PITA with wet wood though. I got through 1/3 of my cord delivery, and a new cord is due to arrive tomorrow. I told the guy that I'm operating an insert and using it for half of all my heating. He immediately understood, and started asking what size splits I want, and told me he'd give me 2/3 a cord of really dry stuff. We will see. I too hope life will be easier, but even if not, I think I've figured out what it takes to run my insert. HOT temps. The manual on mine says 400-800 is ideal face temperature... and that's measuring at a cold spot. My glass is usually at least 100 - 150 hotter than the measuring spot. Apparently it's not a bad idea to get my glass doors near 1000? I've had them over 700 several times, and that's when the stove rally cleans itself up. It all started making sense as soon as I got a Ryobi IR laser temp gun for $30... and two other magnetic ones too. It's not just the flame, or just the temp, or just the sizzling wood. It's all of it. If anything is wrong, I'm typically opening up the doors for more air. Saying my prayers for dry wood to arrive tomorrow. Then I'll shut down for my chimney sweep when it will be nearly 40 degrees. Dry wood just in time to shut down for a while. LOL.
I'm persistent and stubborn, but I assume everyone figures it out in time. If you went to the trouble to get a stove, you will figure out how to run it... right?
EDIT:
Wood I got today was almost as wet as the first. Second batch I threw on has a sizzler, and I'm struggling to get it going again. It probably doesn't help much that it's 35 and sunny right now. Ughhh. Well, Thursday it will be almost 40, and stop dropping below freezing for a while. That will be clean out time.
I'm in the same boat. I struggled for weeks with am EPA insert and less than dry wood. Here's something that will work: go and get some 2x4 lumber from a dot place. The non-premium stuff can be had for around $2 per 8 foot piece. Chop it into 8 inch pieces and then split some of those down for kindling. I use this to get a fire going and toss a piece or two in with every reload. The stove is now blazing away kicking out serious heat.
I'm not sure why people buy a little pack of fatwood when, for the same money you can get a couple of 2x4s which, when sliced and diced will last way longer.
I'm not sure why people buy a little pack of fatwood when, for the same money you can get a couple of 2x4s which, when sliced and diced will last way longer.
You don't need to know too much about wood species and their various seasoning requirements if you can get two years ahead - everything if fine after two or three years. If I was you I think I'd do what you're contemplating. I'd give up on the stove for this winter, work on building a pile of wood, and let it all sit until next winter, when you should be in pretty good shape. if you are looking for wood, try to find something other than oak for next year. There may be wood sellers who have non-oak hardwoods such as soft (Red) maple, Locust, Ash, Elm, Cherry, Walnut, Tulip Poplar, or birch that they want to sell. Sugar Maple, oak, hickory, and beech all require two years to really season, I think, so should be piled separately. Also, pine would be nicely seasoned for next winter, and might be cheaper than hardwood as well.
My first year burning was tough. I started with two pines and an oak tree, cut in April/May. I ordered my stove insert and knew it would take weeks to get here, but knowing the stove would take a 24" piece, I bucked all my rounds 24". I also had read bigger pieces will burn more slowly, so I left my splits pretty big. So that's what I had to work with come October when the stove showed up: 24" barely split wood only seasoned 6 months. I burned a lot of scrap wood I had laying around. That was the year oil went to $4, so pallets were nowhere to be seen. Luckily there was enough construction still going on to find scrap wood.
All my pine burned beautifully that Winter. Oak did not. Someone pointed out to me the coldest climates for people in the world are all coniferous forests.
All my pine burned beautifully that Winter. Oak did not. Someone pointed out to me the coldest climates for people in the world are all coniferous forests.
I would wager a paycheck that 90% of most first year woodburner's problems and frustrations with burning with wood in the first year can be traced to wood that is not seasoned . . . or not seasoned as much as it should be.
Seasoned wood. Seasoned wood. Seasoned wood. This is what it all comes down to . . . not that it makes your situation any easier or better right now. Occasionally, I mean rarely, we see someone looking at burning wood and they come here early and soon realize that they need to get cracking and they are able to get their wood a year ahead of time . . . however, it's rare . . . we human-beings rarely think that far out when it comes to heating the homes . . . I mean it's too easy to not think this way . . . ordering up oil is pretty simple: order today, delivery tomorrow and burn right then and there . . . heck, even the old-time woodstoves were pretty forgiving with less than ideal wood . . . it's all about relearning our old habits.
So, anyways, here's a tip . . . you've no doubt read it here before . . . but here goes . . . pallets. Usually pallets (especially the nice gray ones) are free for the taking and they burn pretty well. I wouldn't throw a whole bunch of the the skinny pieces into my stove or insert, but you can use the thicker pieces in conjunction with the skinny pieces to "burn out" the moisture in your semi-seasoned wood . . . it's not a perfect world, but it can keep you warm.
In the meantime, don't give up hope, get your wood ordered now and remember . . . most of us have been where you are to some degree . . . and most of us stuck with it and are very, very happy since it's a whole other experience when you're burning seasoned wood because then the promise of more heat with less wood really comes true and is not simply a dream.
Seasoned wood. Seasoned wood. Seasoned wood. This is what it all comes down to . . . not that it makes your situation any easier or better right now. Occasionally, I mean rarely, we see someone looking at burning wood and they come here early and soon realize that they need to get cracking and they are able to get their wood a year ahead of time . . . however, it's rare . . . we human-beings rarely think that far out when it comes to heating the homes . . . I mean it's too easy to not think this way . . . ordering up oil is pretty simple: order today, delivery tomorrow and burn right then and there . . . heck, even the old-time woodstoves were pretty forgiving with less than ideal wood . . . it's all about relearning our old habits.
So, anyways, here's a tip . . . you've no doubt read it here before . . . but here goes . . . pallets. Usually pallets (especially the nice gray ones) are free for the taking and they burn pretty well. I wouldn't throw a whole bunch of the the skinny pieces into my stove or insert, but you can use the thicker pieces in conjunction with the skinny pieces to "burn out" the moisture in your semi-seasoned wood . . . it's not a perfect world, but it can keep you warm.
In the meantime, don't give up hope, get your wood ordered now and remember . . . most of us have been where you are to some degree . . . and most of us stuck with it and are very, very happy since it's a whole other experience when you're burning seasoned wood because then the promise of more heat with less wood really comes true and is not simply a dream.
I'm not burning in this warmer weather. I'll wait until there's ice out there again. I had a heck of a time getting my normal drafts on a 40 degree Friday night. Add the trouble of finding dry wood in my 2 cords, and I've given up. I've got two cords drying for next year, and need to work out my storage situation and liner. That will keep me busy while the wood dries. Meanwhile $550 oil bills remind me of why I should dry out that wood and keep about 3-4 cords around drying.
Well, you know, it's not necessarily stupidity or even ignorance that would cause a person to end up with marginally dry wood the first year. I've had the dream of a woodburning stove for years, but didn't think I'd get the chance anytime soon. Then in late June my wife discovered the tax rebate. I wasn't sure yet if we would take the plunge, but I went to work cutting wood as fast as I could. (Unfortunately, I did not realize red oak was among the wettest woods, so my first tree didn't do me much good for year one, but then I got lucky and got a lot of black locust, cherry and osage that had been cut down and piled in log form in an open field.)
I have to ask the purists: Should I have put off the purchase of the stove another year, not knowing whether the tax rebate would still be in effect? Should I have bought it and let it sit unused while my wood cured for another year? As it worked out, I have saved $450 on my first two winter heating bills, enjoyed my stove and experienced only minor issues with my less-than-perfect wood supply. It's not an ideal world. You can't know everything in advance. Sometimes you have to weigh the costs and benefits and choose the best of two or three imperfect options. It is good to know that your first year won't go as well as it could, but in most cases, you still get more gain than loss from having the stove and using it until you run out of passable wood. (I'm looking at early February, unless I can find some to buy that's actually dry.)
For the record, I really haven't found it that difficult to use my EPA/cat stove, and I had no prior experience with any kind of stove or insert. The only trouble is, I can't expect to get the same results from one air control setting on every load. Some loads are a little wetter than others and require a higher setting, but that will all get ironed out next year.
I seem to hear more of those complaints from Jotul owners. Are cat stoves actually easier to run with marginal wood? I really don't know. A lot of the wood I'm using ranges from the upper 20s to lower 30s in moisture, some up to 40%. How bad is the wood some of you others are using?
I have to ask the purists: Should I have put off the purchase of the stove another year, not knowing whether the tax rebate would still be in effect? Should I have bought it and let it sit unused while my wood cured for another year? As it worked out, I have saved $450 on my first two winter heating bills, enjoyed my stove and experienced only minor issues with my less-than-perfect wood supply. It's not an ideal world. You can't know everything in advance. Sometimes you have to weigh the costs and benefits and choose the best of two or three imperfect options. It is good to know that your first year won't go as well as it could, but in most cases, you still get more gain than loss from having the stove and using it until you run out of passable wood. (I'm looking at early February, unless I can find some to buy that's actually dry.)
For the record, I really haven't found it that difficult to use my EPA/cat stove, and I had no prior experience with any kind of stove or insert. The only trouble is, I can't expect to get the same results from one air control setting on every load. Some loads are a little wetter than others and require a higher setting, but that will all get ironed out next year.
I seem to hear more of those complaints from Jotul owners. Are cat stoves actually easier to run with marginal wood? I really don't know. A lot of the wood I'm using ranges from the upper 20s to lower 30s in moisture, some up to 40%. How bad is the wood some of you others are using?
dreezon said:
I suspect the vast majority of us are all in the same proverbial boat for the first year . . . struggling to get by with marginal wood . . . one can only hope that once in a great while someone doing some research into woodstoves will read these threads and realize that before they even start to think about installing a stove they should start getting their fuel source lined up.
In the meantime, we all do what we have to do to get by . . . I don't hear of too many folks who just say, "To heck with it, it's too late to get well seasoned wood so I will not burn this year" . . . and so we continue to offer the next best advice to the familiar chant of "get seasoned wood" . . . which is to say, using pallets, splitting smaller and other tips to get by with marginal wood.
What is true is that if one does not change their wood gathering, buying habits . . . the second year will be just as tough as the first year . . . but if one starts gathering their wood or processing their wood earlier then the second year will almost always be one of great joy and revelation (and magical pixies will dance the Dance of Joy . . . well maybe that last part will not come true.)
One reason you may seem to see a lot of complaints from Jotul owners however is that Jotul is one of the biggest woodstove sellers . . . and so there are often more Jotul owners . . . and Jotul, like most every other stove, really likes well seasoned wood to burn. Can you get by with less than seasoned wood . . . sure . . . but it is more of a challenge.
dreezon said:firefighterjake said:
I hear ya . . . I'm just as giddy as a school girl this year with my well seasoned wood . . . in fact every time I load up the stove I dress up as a school girl . . . complete with patent leather shoes.
firefighterjake said:dreezon said:firefighterjake said:
I hear ya . . . I'm just as giddy as a school girl this year with my well seasoned wood . . . in fact every time I load up the stove I dress up as a school girl . . . complete with patent leather shoes.
Hmm... patent-leather school-girl shoes... where can I find those in my size?
My only point was that someone - may at some point hit this thread when researching a wood stove. I am not convinced the effort surrounding getting non optimally seasoned wood to burn, is worth it. My feeling is that you are better off saving your unseasoned wood for next year when you will get more BTU's from the fuel, and make your burning experience so much better. I have some wood that is very dry, it burns great. I am looking forward to next year when I will be dealing with all fully seasoned wood. I have made the decision to suck it up this year, pick out some of the nice pieces I have - nicely stack the 3 cords of what was supposed to be "dry" wood for next season. I could force the burn of that wood using some of the techniques outlined but again, its kind of like kicking a mule to make it walk - you use so much energy to get it going its easier to use an alternate means.
46hemi said:
Oh, that I understand. I'm willing to use the black locust I got this summer because it's black locust and it did get a few months of good dry time in the sun and wind, but when I run out of that, I will not dig into the red oak I got in July, the pear I got in September or the maple I got in October. Not worth the trouble, and it would be a shame to waste so much of the potential BTUs in the wood. I think there's a point (in terms of % moisture content) beyond which it really is a waste, but of course that point may vary for different people and different stoves.
Which reminds me of a question: With red oak, is 1.5 years enough if the half year included the better part of a summer, or do I really need 2 full years of dry time on it? It has been spit, stacked, out in the sun/wind but protected from precipitation the entire time.
firefighterjake said:
I went in to my local stove gurus to order a part for my stove. These guys aren't newcomers trying to capitalize on the wood burning trend, they are 30-year veterans in the field. They sell Jotul there, so I asked them about all the complaints I've been reading from new Jotul owners. In particular, I asked about the oft quoted need for the driest of dry wood in a Jotul, and they said it was pure hogwash. They attributed 90% of the problems new stove owners were having to lack of understanding about wood burning and inexperience in running a stove.
I certainly mean no disrespect by this, but unless they've spent a lot of time camping in the outdoors, many new stove owners wouldn't know how to build a real good fire out in the open with kiln-dried wood because they don't really understand fire. I used to guide fishing trips, and I've seen this over and over again. I think it's silly to think you can jump into this with no prior experience and expect the stove to do it all. And if you don't understand fire, no time like the present to start learning - in the comfort of your own home.
Instead of giving up due to marginal wood, split what you've got as small as you can and start building small fires. Small wood ignites fast. Get one of those SuperStarters and toss some small wood on top. Criss-cross it so it gets plenty of air, and gradually build the fire without letting it lose its intensity. Be patient and watch - you are learning. Leave the damper open for now. Get a good fire with lots of yellow flame and no smoke and you won't be producing large amounts or creosote. You'll be surprised how much heat you can get from a little fire that is burning hot, and you'll learn a hell of a lot more than waiting until next year to start again. If you can't get a good hot small fire going, how can you expect to get an overnight burn with big damp splits? As your fire building skills improve, you will be able to add bigger and bigger pieces. If you have even a modest amount of room inside, you can start to loose stack some of your splits and dry them inside, a safe 36" or more from the nearest stove surface. In the sometimes extremely low relative humidity of a wood-heated winter home, small wood can dry in several days rather than several months, and the water from the wood will improve the humidity level of your living spaces. Learn this skill and you will always be able to get dry wood by careful attention to detail.
If you are still buying/cutting wood, get yourself some white ash and cherry. Don't look for "semi-seasoned" because it simply ain't. Look for guys advertising green wood (at least they're honest) and politely insist on ash and cherry or nothing. If they know their stuff, they will understand exactly what your needs are, you will seem experienced to them and they will be more likely to give a good count. If they can't get their hands on any, ask for other names. Half of these guys have family doing the same thing, and some of them might specialize. Pay a bit more for it because they have to take more time to hand-pick logs for you, and because it can be made to do the trick. Freshly cut red oak simply can't.
Cherry in particular lends itself to forced indoor drying, and it burns hot and fast once down to about 20-25% MC. Ash has even less moisture in it when first cut, but it holds onto what's there more tenaciously than does cherry in my experience. Regardless of whether or not these woods are vastly improved by seasoning, if you can't get these two to give you good fires, than it's more you than the wood or the stove.
So I'd advise you to keep at it. Warm weather is a great time to find out what's the minimal size fire for your stove, and how much heat it can provide. Do it for the fun of it, and forget about the need to heat exclusively with wood or not at all. Every BTU you can pump out of your stove is one you won't have to have delivered in another form. As FFJake says, it's a challenge, but the learning is priceless. You may be pleasantly surprised how much a little fire in your stove can make a difference in your comfort level.
Just a little rant from a guy who buys all his wood in the fall, and gets his house so hot he has to open the windows on days like today.
46hemi said:
I feel your pain. Just like my first season. I decided to make it work the first year, so I struggled and learned (mostly from this site) at the same time. I don't recommend using unseasoned wood, but if you do continue burning, make sure you keep a close watch on the chimney creosote buildup.
After coming to hearth.com I learned that truly dry wood will fix anything from a broken heart to the crack of dawn.
firefighterjake said:dreezon said:firefighterjake said:
I hear ya . . . I'm just as giddy as a school girl this year with my well seasoned wood . . . in fact every time I load up the stove I dress up as a school girl . . . complete with patent leather shoes.
Ok, this is just gettin' weird.
dreezon said:
My experience with fresh live Red Oak is 2 full years but most of the smaller splits (2-3") can be ready in 1 year. Even small rounds of Red Oak can still sizzle after 2 years. All bets are off however if it's standing dead, the limbs could be ready in 6 months and the trunk still take 2 years, you never know what you will find. I always look for that loose bark, once that starts to peal off that Red Oak is pretty good.
firefighterjake said:dreezon said:firefighterjake said:
I hear ya . . . I'm just as giddy as a school girl this year with my well seasoned wood . . . in fact every time I load up the stove I dress up as a school girl . . . complete with patent leather shoes.
Jake, you are scaring me, buddy.
I don't think the "pics or it didn't happen" rule applies here.
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