Lopi Insert Not Putting Off Heat?

[joewasilla28]

Lopi used to have some good videos on starting and running your stove, but I don't see those on the website now.

From a completely cold stove, I plan on an hour to get the fire started and then settled into burn mode. From a warm stove, 30-45 minutes. When reloading a hot stove, I allow 30 minutes.

I let the blower be my guide. This is my technique with a 25' flue on my Lopi Freedom insert (cooking surface, not flush-mount).

With primary and bypass both open, I load up and start a top/front fire and leave the door cracked about three inches. When it's burning well (probably 10-15 minutes), I push the door in to about a 1" gap.

Another 10-15 minutes to let more wood start burning, then close and latch the door.

Only after the stove gets fully involved and the top surface is hot, do I push in the bypass. How hot the fire is at that point determines how long the next wait is; it can be another 30 minutes, easily.

When the blower kicks on, I pull out the primary all the way, then push it in about a half inch (basically flush with the blower knob). When reburn starts, I pull it out completely, or maybe in 1/8" or so.

Then I ignore it. If it gets too warm in the room (very likely), I turn down the blower speed. After the fire dies down about 80%, I'll open the primary all the way to heat it up for the next load of fuel.

Hi KBC,
Your procedure for starting a burn whether a cold start or restarting sounds exactly how I do it...I mean it's EXACTLY how I do it! It took me awhile to get it perfected, but now I'm so much better at starting and managing the fire. I learned so much from the guys on here, but it still took me a good 3 plus years to become really proficient at it. This season I started just cracking a window open in the room when ever I open the door and it's made a huge difference - zero smoke blows back and the fire picks up lightening quick. Never had a problem with the draft up the chimney, but at times after reloading the smoke smell was real strong and I don't want to be breathing that in if it can be avoided...actually more concerned about the wife than myself. Anyway, with the price of oil what it is, I feel real fortunate to have put this stove in when I did. We love everything about it from the look of it to the performance.

 

[KBCraig]

Hi KBC,
Your procedure for starting a burn whether a cold start or restarting sounds exactly how I do it...I mean it's EXACTLY how I do it! It took me awhile to get it perfected, but now I'm so much better at starting and managing the fire. I learned so much from the guys on here, but it still took me a good 3 plus years to become really proficient at it. This season I started just cracking a window open in the room when ever I open the door and it's made a huge difference - zero smoke blows back and the fire picks up lightening quick. Never had a problem with the draft up the chimney, but at times after reloading the smoke smell was real strong and I don't want to be breathing that in if it can be avoided...actually more concerned about the wife than myself. Anyway, with the price of oil what it is, I feel real fortunate to have put this stove in when I did. We love everything about it from the look of it to the performance.

With a leaky New Englander house built in 1850, I don't have a problem with smoke in the house. With the flue drawing (very easy in my setup), there is plenty of replacement air available.

You might be a good candidate for an outside air tube.

 

[joewasilla28]

With a leaky New Englander house built in 1850, I don't have a problem with smoke in the house. With the flue drawing (very easy in my setup), there is plenty of replacement air available.

You might be a good candidate for an outside air tube.

I probably made it sound worse than it is. It's not bad...it would usually happen with a cold start when I'd stall the fire, which rarely happens anymore. It's preventative more than anything cause the draft up the chimney 99% of the time is excellent. I also found that after replacing the door gasket a month ago for the first time, it's helped with the smell- at the beginning of this season I could detect a slight smell even with the door shut, and I also noticed I had much less precise control with the air control. With the new gasket the fire is hotter, burns longer, is easier to manage, and no leaks into the room. I plan on replacing the gasket every other year, instead of 3.5 years.

 

[TradEddie]

Lopi used to have some good videos on starting and running your stove, but I don't see those on the website now.

From a completely cold stove, I plan on an hour to get the fire started and then settled into burn mode. From a warm stove, 30-45 minutes. When reloading a hot stove, I allow 30 minutes.

I let the blower be my guide. This is my technique with a 25' flue on my Lopi Freedom insert (cooking surface, not flush-mount).

With primary and bypass both open, I load up and start a top/front fire and leave the door cracked about three inches. When it's burning well (probably 10-15 minutes), I push the door in to about a 1" gap.

Another 10-15 minutes to let more wood start burning, then close and latch the door.

Only after the stove gets fully involved and the top surface is hot, do I push in the bypass. How hot the fire is at that point determines how long the next wait is; it can be another 30 minutes, easily.

When the blower kicks on, I pull out the primary all the way, then push it in about a half inch (basically flush with the blower knob). When reburn starts, I pull it out completely, or maybe in 1/8" or so.

Then I ignore it. If it gets too warm in the room (very likely), I turn down the blower speed. After the fire dies down about 80%, I'll open the primary all the way to heat it up for the next load of fuel.

I'm curious to understand why you leave the bypass open so long, and why it takes so long to get to a smooth running condition.
On mine, I have the bypass open only long enough to establish good draft (less than a minute if outdoor temps <40F), then bypass is closed and all flame is going to heat secondary tubes. I use a top-down method with lots of kindling, I close the air to 50% once the firebox is full of flames, and then close half way again every 3-5 minutes to maintain a vigorous burn. If I want a longer burn, I'll throw in another split to fill the space where the kindling was once air is fully closed. Done perfectly I can have air fully closed with 15 minutes, any longer than 30 from stone cold to a steady state and I've done something very wrong.
I think you may be wasting a lot of wood with your method. I burn 1-2 cords each year and get perhaps a cup of creosote, so I'm not having an issue with inadequately pre-heating the flue.

TE

 

[prezes13]

I have pretty much the same stove. Cape cod insert. Let me tell you this stove even with a small fire box it’s a monster heater. Took me 3-4 years to learn it. It needs dry wood. And I mean really dry. Once I had a wood that was split stack and in the wood shed the stove showed what it is capable of. First bypas. I only open it for starting fire or on reloads. As soon as I close the door I pretty much close the bypas. Watch what is happening in the fire box. Once fire is going well close the air 50%. Then when it picks up again close it to 75%. From there I like to close it till I have nice secondary going but just a touch of fire coming of the wood. Secondaries won’t last forever. You need some air to burn through the wood. My house is not big. It’s a raised ranch 1200 sf. Living room kitchen dining room one open space with vaulted ceiling. This stove is capable of cooking us out of the house. I try not to go over 77-78 dgf, but I managed to get the ceiling so hot that glue on my spot light above the stove melted and dripped on the floor. It’s on outside wall chimney. Un insulated liner 15’ no block of plate. I did struggle for a while. Not much heat, black glass etc. As soon as I finally got dry wood it all went away. You want to fill the fire box full, as far as the fan goes I keep my on the minimum only when things get a bit of hand and I need to cool the stove off I ran higher. If you have any question ask I have this stove for about 10 years. No issues with yet. Didn’t replace any parts on it not even gaskets. It’s almost indestructibl.

 

[joewasilla28]

I have pretty much the same stove. Cape cod insert. Let me tell you this stove even with a small fire box it’s a monster heater. Took me 3-4 years to learn it. It needs dry wood. And I mean really dry. Once I had a wood that was split stack and in the wood shed the stove showed what it is capable of. First bypas. I only open it for starting fire or on reloads. As soon as I close the door I pretty much close the bypas. Watch what is happening in the fire box. Once fire is going well close the air 50%. Then when it picks up again close it to 75%. From there I like to close it till I have nice secondary going but just a touch of fire coming of the wood. Secondaries won’t last forever. You need some air to burn through the wood. My house is not big. It’s a raised ranch 1200 sf. Living room kitchen dining room one open space with vaulted ceiling. This stove is capable of cooking us out of the house. I try not to go over 77-78 dgf, but I managed to get the ceiling so hot that glue on my spot light above the stove melted and dripped on the floor. It’s on outside wall chimney. Un insulated liner 15’ no block of plate. I did struggle for a while. Not much heat, black glass etc. As soon as I finally got dry wood it all went away. You want to fill the fire box full, as far as the fan goes I keep my on the minimum only when things get a bit of hand and I need to cool the stove off I ran higher. If you have any question ask I have this stove for about 10 years. No issues with yet. Didn’t replace any parts on it not even gaskets. It’s almost indestructibl.

This might be a stupid question, but how long do you let the burn go, before reloading? Cause I understand trying to "stretch" a burn for maximum efficiency (conserving wood/fuel), but a load of wood still only goes so far before the air loses its heating value, if you get what I'm saying. I'm still not sure what's best... sometimes, if it's really cold, I'll add splits before the fire even starts to visibly decrease, so that there's steady heat. If I wait too much after the temp drops below 500 and/or the flame has disappeared (smoldering, but no more flame), in order to get every drop of efficiency out of a load, the temp in the house fluctuates more. I'm still, almost 4 years in, experimenting to try and find the best method. I guess there's no perfect way, and everyone does it differently. Just looking for ideas and what your experience has been. Thanks!

 

[prezes13]

There are no stupid questions. Only stupid answers. So it all depends. Simple answer will be whatever makes you comfortable. It depends on how much heat loss you have. If you have to run your stove that hard that anything below 500 is not enough then I would say that your heat loss is much bigger than the stove heat out put. For example in a mild weather I stretch time before reloading because when I will be ready for a reload house still might be in the upper 70s. Different scenario. I come to a cold house low 60s. Temp outside around upper 20s it might take me two quick burns 3-4 hours each before I can get the house to a comfortable level which would be mid 70s.

 

[joewasilla28]

There are no stupid questions. Only stupid answers. So it all depends. Simple answer will be whatever makes you comfortable. It depends on how much heat loss you have. If you have to run your stove that hard that anything below 500 is not enough then I would say that your heat loss is much bigger than the stove heat out put. For example in a mild weather I stretch time before reloading because when I will be ready for a reload house still might be in the upper 70s. Different scenario. I come to a cold house low 60s. Temp outside around upper 20s it might take me two quick burns 3-4 hours each before I can get the house to a comfortable level which would be mid 70s.

Yes, I agree it depends. There's so many factors. Our insert is in the middle of the house, not an exterior wall, and the floor plan is not what is considered an "open" floor plan. The stove faces a huge window, and there's another good sized window on the same wall. We're in a real rural area and the view out these windows is real nice. We never put curtains or blinds up on these because they face our backyard, which is extremely private... no neighbors! I always knew there was heat loss there, but didn't know the amount, but since you mentioned heat loss, I looked into online and it could be a significant amount. There's also three entrances to the hearth room, and I'm going to remove the headers so the heat that is trapped can move better. I used 500 degrees as a reference point, because that is the temp Lopi says the cat should be engaged. I'm still getting nicely heated air at that point, just not as hot obviously as when the fire is cranking. Sometimes I'll be busy and when I finally check on the fire is 250ish and I can feel a difference in the overall comfort level of the house... it's not cold, but if I waited much longer, you could start to feel a chill. That's why I'll usually try to maintain a steady burn, even if that means using more wood. I'd definitely like to increase my time between reloading though, and I have a feeling cellular blinds is gonna help a lot.

 

[prezes13]

Looks like I made mistake. You have the hybrid stove. I don’t. Which means your stove should burn longer and more efficiently, but it also means your wood has to be really dry. Now the 500 is a cat temp. 500 is minimum to engage the cat. Once it’s engaged it should run at 1000-1200 for hours. I assume that someone explained to you how to run it? You said your ceiling are high. Mine are only 12’. However I run my ceiling fan in a summer mode. And it works well for me. Give it a try.
Try to talk us thorough your routine one more time. Maybe I missed something but I didn’t see anything about engaging a cat. And I can’t stress enough wood needs to be dry. Dry for me means 3 years split and stacked under a roof.

 

[prezes13]

I read through everything again. So you don’t have a cat stove. Your stove is just like mine. Do you have an infrared thermometer? If you do measure the temp at the body of the stove just between the peak of the door and the grill. My stove runs in the mid 400 to even low 500 with the fan on at the lowest possible. I can see two problems one is your stove is undersized. But the stove it’s self should be getting hot and it’s surroundings should be hot. Second is wood. It might not be as seasoned as you think it is. Subpar wood and truly seasoned wood is day and night.

 

[prezes13]

I took few measurements. Just to give you a pic. We came home from a trip. How was at 63. It’s 29 outside my open living room 5
600-700 sf is at 76 deg. Top of the surround is 230. Mantel is 130. It’s my second load of oak. Since about 11 AM

 

[joewasilla28]

I read through everything again. So you don’t have a cat stove. Your stove is just like mine. Do you have an infrared thermometer? If you do measure the temp at the body of the stove just between the peak of the door and the grill. My stove runs in the mid 400 to even low 500 with the fan on at the lowest possible. I can see two problems one is your stove is undersized. But the stove it’s self should be getting hot and it’s surroundings should be hot. Second is wood. It might not be as seasoned as you think it is. Subpar wood and truly seasoned wood is day and night.

This is the Lopi Large Flush Hybrid, and yes, its got a cat. The thing cruises at around 900 to 1000, and depending on how I stack the firebox, it will run for a long time. Since you said it's ok to let it keep burning well past 500, I did that today and got an extra couple hours before reloading, just by incrementally increasing the air. It's crazy that I'm still trying different things, but this is the first season where I have prioritized cutting wood for north south loading. I've wanted to do it, but we've been involved with so many projects that I just kept putting it off. And man, what a difference! Can load much quicker, make beautiful stacks with good spacing and get way more wood in. Someone else even mentioned top down loading and I tried that and it works really well. Last night I put the most in that I ever have and it was still purring this morning! Our bedroom is as far away from the stove as can be, and around a corner, but it was 64 this morning which I'm totally OK with as is the wife. Ive been trying to fine tune my starts and rekindles, as well as pay much more attention to the settings and I'm seeing better results. I finally have time to really focus on this. Most of our wood for this season is 3 years under a roof, split and stacked. It's excellent quality... predominantly silver maple and ash and black locust. We've been here around 4 years and we've got wood, conservatively speaking for this winter, plus 2 more! We have a lot of wood! We spend our winter "harvesting" all the dead stuff, and because of the emerald ash borer beetle, we have got a ridiculous amount of dead and dying standing ash..
enough wood for a long time. The house has a huge wood shed- it's basically a truss roof /metal deck, on 4×6 posts. It's roughly 20x40 and sides are open. The wood dries really well in there.

 

[prezes13]

500 is the minimum to engage the cat. N/S loading is great when I have wood splits short enough to load my stove like that it’s great for over night burn because I can pack it way better. More fuel equals longer burn.

 

[prezes13]

And just to be clear I said that my stove is the same as Tiffany and Bart stove. Joes stove is totally different.

 

[Tiffany and Bartholomew]

Hi everybody!
Again, thank you all for your replies. We’ve read them and taken all your advice thoroughly into account! The reason we stopped responding is because: 1, we got busy with holiday stuff and 2, my mom got discouraged and hadn’t used the stove for a long time.
Well we got a really nice cold spell these past few days, and so yesterday we tried the stove again for Christmas. She thought it must have been her wood was too wet or something. Well, didn’t heat the house much, but was enjoyable to watch and everything went well!

Anyway, today she tried the fire again, only to call and say that a bunch of smoke started coming in through the bottom vents when she started it. I thought those were the air intake vents? But either way, she said she panicked and didn’t notice if smoke was coming from the top vents too (I think the blower vents), but definitely coming from the bottom vents.

This hasn’t happened before. Any ideas why this could be? She’s hardly used the stove and she knows how to start it.

She put the fire out right away.

 

[bholler]

Hi everybody!
Again, thank you all for your replies. We’ve read them and taken all your advice thoroughly into account! The reason we stopped responding is because: 1, we got busy with holiday stuff and 2, my mom got discouraged and hadn’t used the stove for a long time.
Well we got a really nice cold spell these past few days, and so yesterday we tried the stove again for Christmas. She thought it must have been her wood was too wet or something. Well, didn’t heat the house much, but was enjoyable to watch and everything went well!

Anyway, today she tried the fire again, only to call and say that a bunch of smoke started coming in through the bottom vents when she started it. I thought those were the air intake vents? But either way, she said she panicked and didn’t notice if smoke was coming from the top vents too (I think the blower vents), but definitely coming from the bottom vents.

This hasn’t happened before. Any ideas why this could be? She’s hardly used the stove and she knows how to start it.

She put the fire out right away.

A cold chimney will cause the draft to be reversed making smoke leak out the intake

 

[brenndatomu]

She just had a cold chimney that was downdrafting...it depends on the house/chimney/stove and weather as far as how hard it is to reverse...basically the chimney is cold and the cold air is falling down the flue (or maybe even being pulled down by a negative pressure in the house) but the cure is a quick blast of heat to reverse the downdraft...there are a number of ways to do it...sometimes just a quick hot fire will do it (a quality fire starter like Super Cedar will work) sometimes a small propane torch held into the top of the stove...a hair dryer pointed up into the top of the stove toward the flue opening works well, but you need to be careful with that so you don't blow ashes all over the house with it! Works super well otherwise...I feel like I remember reading about someone here that made a little adapter to hook the hair dryer to the OAK connection of the stove to warm the flue before the stove was even opened up...great idea!
You have to be careful with using much paper to light the fire, while it can work well, it also makes lots of smoke if it doesn't take off well and just smolders away during a downdraft.

 

[Tiffany and Bartholomew]

Ah, thank you guys! I’m glad it wasn’t something more serious!

any words of encouragement we could give her to keep trying? She’s pretty much all but done with it, had such a hard time with the learning curve. I know it’s worth it once it starts working for her

 

[prezes13]

Tiffany most of my responds were towards you since we have the same stove. I don’t want to sound like a broken record but how dry is the wood that your mom uses? My furnace crapped out on us right before Christmas and before the big cold snap in CT. During all that cold we experienced 5 plus windchill my little cape cod kept us warm 72-76. True I was feeding it with dry pine during the day but it saved us from freezing.

 

[Tiffany and Bartholomew]

I have pretty much the same stove. Cape cod insert. Let me tell you this stove even with a small fire box it’s a monster heater. Took me 3-4 years to learn it. It needs dry wood. And I mean really dry. Once I had a wood that was split stack and in the wood shed the stove showed what it is capable of. First bypas. I only open it for starting fire or on reloads. As soon as I close the door I pretty much close the bypas. Watch what is happening in the fire box. Once fire is going well close the air 50%. Then when it picks up again close it to 75%. From there I like to close it till I have nice secondary going but just a touch of fire coming of the wood. Secondaries won’t last forever. You need some air to burn through the wood. My house is not big. It’s a raised ranch 1200 sf. Living room kitchen dining room one open space with vaulted ceiling. This stove is capable of cooking us out of the house. I try not to go over 77-78 dgf, but I managed to get the ceiling so hot that glue on my spot light above the stove melted and dripped on the floor. It’s on outside wall chimney. Un insulated liner 15’ no block of plate. I did struggle for a while. Not much heat, black glass etc. As soon as I finally got dry wood it all went away. You want to fill the fire box full, as far as the fan goes I keep my on the minimum only when things get a bit of hand and I need to cool the stove off I ran higher. If you have any question ask I have this stove for about 10 years. No issues with yet. Didn’t replace any parts on it not even gaskets. It’s almost indestructibl.

Thank you for all this information! I’m wondering if she just doesn’t have properly seasoned wood then. She’s bought “seasoned” wood from multiple people, and some are okay on the moisture meter. But a lot of it isn’t once we started checking the proper way.

The surroundings do get hot to the touch, and it warms right above the stove like crazy.

Do you think it’s possible she’s losing all the heat up the cathedral ceiling? She’s got a (real big) fan blowing up there.

 

[Tiffany and Bartholomew]

Tiffany most of my responds were towards you since we have the same stove. I don’t want to sound like a broken record but how dry is the wood that your mom uses? My furnace crapped out on us right before Christmas and before the big cold snap in CT. During all that cold we experienced 5 plus windchill my little cape cod kept us warm 72-76. True I was feeding it with dry pine during the day but it saved us from freezing.

Sorry, I was a little confused at who they were directed to at one point 😅

That cold spell was terrible! I’m glad you guys were able to stay warm!

It got -6 here, -30 wind chills, and she didn’t even bother with the stove 😕

 

[prezes13]

Well I have vaulted ceilings 10-12 feet. My stove is almost right in the middle of the house. I put my ceiling fan on in the summer mode(pushing air up) after 5-10 min if I stand in the hallway I can feel all the hot air rushing towards the bedrooms. If she has cathedral ceiling it is possible that all the hot air goes there and she ends up with the cold air coming to the stove.

 

[mellow]

Cold air will come on the floor where she is and hot air to that tall ceiling with a thermal loop.

 

[prezes13]

Yes I agree. I just feel that the hot air is being trapped up in the ceiling. Cold air burned by the stove is replaced by the out door air and there might be no loop. All I am saying it works for me. It might not work super tall ceiling.

 

[TradEddie]

Smoke coming out the firebox is common when it's very cold, especially if the air control wasn't completely closed. Having a clothes dryer running, or central air can make it happen too.
If I feel a cold downdraft when I'm loading, I place a sheet of newspaper loose on top of everything, below the bypass hole, light that and close the door until flame and smoke are going upwards, then open the door and light the fire as normal. If it happens unexpectedly, I crack a nearby outside door.
It's almost impossible to buy properly seasoned wood, no matter what the seller claims. Wet wood, (over 20%mc on a fresh split at room temperature) is going to be frustrating, and not a fair demonstration of what the stove is capable of. You can burn borderline wood, you can even get secondary combustion, but boiling off that water, and the increased air needed to burn will drastically reduce the overall efficiency. Until she's ran a full load of properly seasoned hardwood, don't discount what the stove can do.

TE